Would one recommmend have a light/torch on a home defense pistol and AR ?

I leave a few lights on in the house at night - led bulbs burn little electricity.

Thanks

Mike

Nights sights for sure I have a tac light on my bed side Glock.

I thought seriously about one for my 870 but have been lazy about getting one.

I guess what is holding me back is I really like the sure fire forend with built in light but they are expensive.

The bottom line is if your ever in a low light shooting you well wish you had one or be very glad you all ready have one.

So the short answer is yes put tack lights on your home defense arms.

I prefer having night lights in the house strategically placed so any intruder will be lit but I can have dark areas from which to observe.

I have night sights, but nothing that gives away my position.
I like having the element of surprise.

I have mixed emotions about this. I am really not sure I want to give away my position and give the bad guy something to aim at. A flashlight to illuminate the target, yes. A flashlight, fixed to the gun, to find the target, no! But, just my thoughts
Peter

Surefire X300; small, light and fairly bright. I mount one on my AR, easy to turn on when needed.

Makes you a good target.

I fall in the camp of you should have a good flashlight with the gun, but not on it.

You don’t want to be pointing the gun when you just want a light.

I also buy in to the not wanting to expose your position part.

It’s not that hard to learn how to use a separate light with the gun.

I have tritium night sights on my CZ75 night stand gun.I have a friend that used to work for the prison system.When ever they were chasing an escaped convict they brought along a trusty to hold the flashlight.

Yes. Positive Target Identification. What rifle/handguard are you using?

The light issue came into focus for me when we had a false alarm. I had my pistol in my right hand, my flashlight in my left and the phone starts ringing with a call from my security system. Try doing that three handed maneuver.
I really don't want to shoot anyone or be shot. A couple trooper buddies I have say to stay in your bedroom and be in a safe location.
I hear all the bravado but believe me that will evaporate when the 15 year old unarmed neighbor kid is on the floor.
As far as making yourself a target, I don't see how an intruder can aim accurately at a 300 to 500 lumen strobe. Pick a laser light that has that feature.

So, LJS, not trying to offend you, but exactly how much training have you had using firearms and lights? The reason I say that is that if you had had any good training, you would not have been worrying about answering the phone while you had a unknown situation in progress. The alarm company would have called the police if you did not answer, not a bad thing. If you think that light will prevent someone from accurately shooting you, you are fooling yourself...badly. Get yourself an airsoft pistol and some goggles for a friend to use, strip your piece down to the frame with just the flashlight attached and do a few drills in pitch black conditions and let us know how many times you get stung, goggles, long sleeves and a ski mask are recommended for you. Most people would be better off barricading in their room, calling the police, and then throwing the police their house key from a window upon arrival and let them do their job.

I probably have the same smattering of practice most people have. Remember I don’t want to look for a gun battle and I don’t want to shoot someone. For me flight is better than fight! My actions will always be defensive.

quote:

Get yourself an airsoft pistol and some goggles for a friend to use, strip your piece down to the frame with just the flashlight attached and do a few drills in pitch black conditions and let us know how many times you get stung,

Force on force training is a good thing and very useful.

But the situation you are setting is made for the defender to fail.

Having conducted hundreds of training sessions it is very easy for the instructor to push the training to have desired out comes

Force on force training can be interesting eye opener and good training.

One of the problems is every one still knows that they are not real bullets.

One also need to make sure no real weapons are introduced into the training. Fatal training accidents have happen.

Because of them very strict safety measures have been adopted.

It is very easy for the students to get carried away.

Also in a normal burglary one is not dealing with people who are trained military or law enforcement operators.

There has been several shootings of family members do to misidentification. A flash light or tac light most likely would have prevented them.

Lee440 I don't know how much low light shooting you have done or even if you can find a range near you that would allow it.

I would highly suggest you do some that also can be an eye opening experience.

Having ran hundreds of such training sessions I can tell you night sights and tac lights rule.

Having search hundreds of buildings arrested hundreds of bad guys. Having started my career when nights sights and tac lights were not invented.

I can tell you night sights and tac lights are a good thing.

Like any tool can they be missed use for sure.

But I well take them any time a light is needed over not having one.

quote:

There has been several shootings of family members do to misidentification. A flash light or tac light most likely would have prevented them.

That's why I rely on night lights.

I also always know who is in my house at any given time, and I can easily recognize them even in very dim lighting conditions.

Pdog, All my training has been done at Thunder Ranch under the direction of Clint Smith. When their facility was in Texas, it was 9 miles down the road from my ranchito. Urban rifle course included an extended night firing session with emphasis on using night sights and proper use of lights, and Clint did not recommend handgun mounted lights for the reasons I stated. The course also included live fire house clearing drills using Ar's in 9mm. I have taken advanced handgun courses from Clint and also John Farnham, legal classes from Mass Ayoob (LFI) and long range rifle from Daryl Holland. I give this info in the face of your arrogant assumption that my opinion has no merit and that your superior position as a instructor gives you the last word, it does not. Your opinion is based on your experience which is ok, mine is from other known experts in the field and if its ok with you, I will stick with my training. As far as a range to practice low light shooting on, it is on my property in the hill country, so it is not an issue. Like many on here, you seem to assume a lot, without any personal knowlege of me or what I know or don't know. You know what they warn about assuming. Have a nice day!

No more assumptions then you made of LJS.

And you assume that my qualifications are not as good.

Having instructed LEO's and others for over 30 years instructor certified by 3 certifying organizations.

Rifle, Shotgun, pistol, Patrol rifle, police shotgun, Police pistol.

I have instructed local,county, state and federal LEO's at the academy level, and advance courses.

Instructed many instruct the instructor courses meaning I taught instructors to instruct in all the above disciplines.

I also develop the curriculum for many of our academy courses.

I was the most senior member of our use of force and firearms committee.

That adds up to 1000s of hours of just instructor time not counting all the time I spent training.

Spent hundreds of hours with DAs, state department of justice attorney's being instructed in the law and discussing the finer aspects of it.

That along with over 30 years of real life experience.

Then Running my own firearms and self-defense business that teaches people like you who are willing to pay for my expertise.

Also I have my own private ranges out too 600 yards.

I also hold armorer certifications from Colt, Remington, Glock and Ruger.

I guess that I well have to assume that your few weeks training of trumps mine.

I view lights on a home defense weapon the same as having a loaded firearm - better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.

Yes, running around with the light on makes you an easy target. But being able to properly identify the target before pulling the trigger is critical for a home defense situation. Last time I checked weapon lights have an on/off switch.

I can live with shooting a bad guy. Not sure it would be easy to drill the neighbors kid or worse, one of your own. Even the most seasoned police officers get panicky in real life shooting situations. None of us would fair any better.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
I view lights on a home defense weapon the same as having a loaded firearm - better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.

Yes, running around with the light on makes you an easy target. But being able to properly identify the target before pulling the trigger is critical for a home defense situation. Last time I checked weapon lights have an on/off switch.

I can live with shooting a bad guy. Not sure it would be easy to drill the neighbors kid or worse, one of your own. Even the most seasoned police officers get panicky in real life shooting situations. None of us would fair any better.

Not a LEO and never been in combat,

but I've killed a ton of hoglets.

Having a light or light/laser combo at night flat works.



Point, identify, and boom,



maybe even boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,.....





10 out of 13.


ya!

GWB

A nice bunch of hogs all dead.

Very interesting views here. I’ve got a light/laser combo on my G43, but I am conflicted by the old adage of don’t point your gun at something you don’t intend to shoot. I also have flashlights in strategic places.

I have a laser on my Sig Sauer, but I use a hand held flashlight for target identification. Held off to the side.

BH63

This topic has nagged at me since its beginning so a couple pals and I decided to try things out. Our club has an indoor range so we turned out the lights and tried the gun in one hand and the light in the other hand to not give the bad guy an aiming point. Good theory till you try to shoot with one hand. Either the light or the gun sights were on the target but seldom both together. When the light hand and gun hand were crossed, things improved dramatically. But..... if you have to do that to be effective I'll go with the light on the gun. The other question that came up was what if one arm is incapacitated? I certainly respect the experts but at this point in life I still think I'll use a laser light on my gun with the strobe feature. We played with the strobe feature and everyone who looked at it in the dark was quickly blinded. Our experiment was very brief. Shooting in the dark made all participants very uncomfortable. As a result, I've moved a 12 gauge Remington pump into the bedroom. With a light on it of course!

AFA night shooting goes, training is essential. The muzzle flash at night is impressive, to say the least, not to mention blinding. We had one LEO in training who fired a .44 mag in the dark and literally threw the gun away because of the muzzle flash.

This. Not running a light on your weapon at home is crazy. Night sights don't do you any good if you can't see what you are shooting at....and, for those of us who reside with a wife and/or kids, a light is essential to ensure what you're shooting ain't a friendly.

Here's some wisdom from Clint Smith on the topic...

Light On, Light Off?

I run 15 to 35 tactical runs a week with students, week after week, month after month. An average of two thirds of these runs are in low/altered/failing or no-light environments. I’ve learned a few things.

The vast majority of new handguns today have some sort of rail attachment. Yet, about 85 percent of my students do not have a rail-light system attached, and rely on handheld lights. I would avoid buying a gun requiring a special adaptor to mount the attachment to the rail. It complicates things. Most serious defensive pistols today have a rail readily accepting lights, and that’s the best approach.


Handheld Techniques
The big four techniques have been around for a while and they are the basic foundation for handheld light techniques. The “cross wrist” technique (Harries) favors Weaver-style shooters, but is tiring until learned well and it sucks on hard right corner clearance because much of the gun and shooter clear the corner before the light comes clear to illuminate the threat area.

Uncrossed is the response to the hard right corner issue, but keep the thumbs in contact so the slide movement, or the revolver cylinder gap/flash doesn’t get to shooter’s hands while firing.

The Syringe favors isosceles shooters and the key issue is to keep the thumbs together addressing the function of the handgun during firing. In syringe-mode, both hands are together and forward, and more upper body leaning is required to get the light spot into the area being cleared. Syringe-supported is a personal favorite, as good control of the light and handgun generally results from its use. The light hand’s lower two or three fingers are open and create a “pocket” for the gun-hand to fit into, giving more 2-hand support for both the gun and the light.

On-Gun Technique
The on-gun lights are best as they only require the shooter know how to turn the light on/off. All other manipulations of the pistol stay the same. If you use a rail light — especially on a polymer frame — shoot the pistol quite a bit with your defensive loads to confirm the pistol will function. The weight may change the slide-cycle pulse and cause malfunctions. I have seen this most often on Glocks.

Spots And Arcs
Any light will create the spot (the bright, center part) and the big circle (we call the arc). Keep in mind your extended hands and arms block the lower part of the arc. The spot should be choreographed with the muzzle, while the arc will often illuminate much of the area being addressed. Train to use the spot as a clock system 3, 12, 6 and 9 and “cut” the light on corners to drive the spot into the area being addressed.

Doubling Up
Even if you use a weapon-mounted light, I encourage you to train to use the gun light and an additional handheld. It allows you to double-light an area, to have an immediate backup, or to use the second light to “bounce” light off the ceiling or offset doorways or to direct both straight forward.

Stupid Lights
I think strobes are dumb and jack your eyes up really bad. I have had people miss the bullet trap — not the target, but the 24″x36″ entire target trap — at distances of less than eight feet. When questioned, it’s always the same answer, “It really messed up my eyes while firing.” Make your own decision.

Smart Lights
A simple light is best, something you push on and off. I don’t need a light with teeth and striking claws. If you want a light, get a light. If you want a club, get a club.

On Or Off?
For most people, a light should be used to find the light switch on the wall, and to absolutely confirm what you’re shooting at. When I turn the light on I can get killed and I know it. But without the light, I might kill my partner or family member. Remember, when you turn the light on, you do so to fight — seeing is just a residual benefit. Understand weapon-mounted and handheld lights and techniques — and train for both.
By Clint Smith

https://americanhandgunner.com/light-on-light-off/

I have even started carrying a Glock with a rail light mounted due to the ever-widening availability of good kydex holsters that will accommodate a handgun with a light. Bravo Concealment makes excellent holsters for pistols with lights.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
I view lights on a home defense weapon the same as having a loaded firearm - better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.

Yes, running around with the light on makes you an easy target. But being able to properly identify the target before pulling the trigger is critical for a home defense situation. Last time I checked weapon lights have an on/off switch.

I can live with shooting a bad guy. Not sure it would be easy to drill the neighbors kid or worse, one of your own. Even the most seasoned police officers get panicky in real life shooting situations. None of us would fair any better.

Shooting with any light and any technique requires sufficient practice/training the same as any skill set. At a recent training at the Sig Academy (advanced intermediate level) we tried different techniques at different light levels to determine what worked best for each individual. The one constant was that one hand techniques sacrificed some speed and accuracy. If you don't have a light then you have lost situational awareness and control.
I respect the notion of the light creating exposure but does that defensive technique restrict one's offensive technique? I'm very poor at hitting what I can't see.

not to get too far off topic, but i have an older M&P
in 40 cal i use as a house gun. years ago i put on a viridian C5 light. it had strobe, green dot, light etc etc choices. worked great for awhile and its still on the gun but it eats batteries at an unbelieveable rate. are there better choices and what do you reccommend?

Streamlight or Surefire.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
not to get too far off topic, but i have an older M&P
in 40 cal i use as a house gun. years ago i put on a viridian C5 light. it had strobe, green dot, light etc etc choices. worked great for awhile and its still on the gun but it eats batteries at an unbelieveable rate. are there better choices and what do you reccommend?

Good lights aren't cheap and cheap lights aren't good. Surefire lights have lasted much longer for me than I ever expected.

Interesting reading.#1 is tritium sights. I've got combinations covered quite well. But if you could only have two picks out of three(tritium sight,gun,light) what would you pick? I pick gun with tritium night sights.BestAll

quote:

But if you could only have two picks

Very situational.

I keep two personal defense weapons in my house.

The main one is a Tristar Semi-auto 12 gauge tactical 12 gauge loaded with #4 buckshot. This Tristar never jams and has a Tru-Glo tritium glow in the dark bead that makes aiming with or without light easy.

The second is a Walther PPQ M2 in 9mm, 16 shots, with Tritium iron sights plus a green dot laser under barrel. This piece is really deadly.

Assailants beware, I’m ready.

Way back in the bad old days I learned/was taught PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE...learn to shoot with BOTH hands, INDIVIDUALLY, double handed, on BOTH /EITHER sides, back, upside down, crouched, wrapped around some protection...hanging from a tree...etc...and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!! using the GUNS original sights AND with no sights at all...AKA "instinct"...NONE of this bullsh** movie crap...and MOSTLY with wheel guns...reloading by feel with BOTH/either hand or one hand incapacitated. Jamie Lee Curtis SHOWED US one way IN "BLUE STEEL"?

PARANOIA is a GOOD THING sometimes and TOO many Americans go around with their faces buried in some techno device...sad to say, time will come.

What's that saying..."we have met the enemy and it is US"

We also learned to shot by the flash of our AND the perps shots...STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM LIGHT SOURCES, keep a low profile and KEEP THE FLASHLIGHT, if used, WAY THE HELL AWAY FROM YOUR BODIES...arms length or farther...it makes a FINE TARGET.

Go up against some dumb-azz and MAYBE you will survive doing the movie thing, but against someone who is trained and DOES ALL THE ABOVE MUCH HARDER AND MORE OFTEN THAN MOST...you're Banta poo.

Having a flashlight hanging off your weapon is a sure way to get wasted and advertise your position, light up your brother "hunters", scare the bats and rats...and generally cause a bad scene.

I like action movies but some of the "stuff" they do, while being photogenic, I just have to shake my head at because I SEE all the ways the "good guys" could get hammered.

Not withstanding all the movie garbage, the forum garbage, the hype, the bullshit and even what is being taught in academies, the KISS principle still applies...KEEP IT SIMPLE SHITBIRD.


and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE...the average person IS NOT EQUIPPED to kill, mentally...and hesitation is the big killer no matter HOW much non-dangerous training you get...NOT all of us have a security company to call...SO...you can see the mindless mindset already implanted in the minds of those who DREAM a lot and have the latest foo-foo's all over their TOYS.

Work for a Gov'ment agency you have to do what THEY say...work for a security outfit, you do what THEY say..work for YOURSELF and do what will keep you ALIVE...I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6...THINK ABOUT IT.

Opinions always vary, do what you think is best.

Good Hunting

I keep telling ya'll that this internet can get you killed!!!!

Well, if it's dark, you'll be able to see your sights at least. I'd rather be able to see the target.

quote:

Originally posted by lonniemike:
Interesting reading.#1 is tritium sights. I've got combinations covered quite well. But if you could only have two picks out of three(tritium sight,gun,light) what would you pick? I pick gun with tritium night sights.BestAll

NO HOUSE inside is dark...unless you live in the boonies like me WITHOUT interior/exterior lighting other than the moon...there is always some kind of illumination either from night lights, exterior illumination into windows, clocks, digital garbage from every electrical contrivance you can imagine...AND THE PHOOL WAVING HIS TORCH AROUND trying to rob/kill you...if you can't shoot his **lls off you need MORE practice NOT GREEN/ORANGE/RED DOTS. And if you DON'T know where you are located in YOUR dark house interior, you BETTER START learning...NOT because of the boogeyman, but because of fire or extreme damage to your home from natural or other disasters.

I can't see sh** with or without my glasses and I GUARANTEE I CAN'T see the sights on my pistols but I DON'T have any trouble killing rabbits, sage rats, pine cones or tiny chipmunks with my pistols...not EVERY SHOT, but I can hit center mass of something the size of a man out to ≈50-60 yards without half trying...of course I PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE...ALMOST DAILY and DON'T believe any of the advertising bullsh** or horse apples/cow pies/chicken manure scattered all around to fertilize the grass.

BUT...if you believe it works for you then doit, it might just be all you need....better yet, hope the hell that kind of shit NEVER happens to you...

Pretty much ANY light will cause your night vision to go to hell, INCLUDING THAT THING HANGING OFF YOUR GUN...didn't ANYONE teach you to squint and/or look sideways...the rods and cones in the center of your eye are for fine detain, the periphery is for gross detail...thats why you can see things better by looking to the sides at night...try it...and squinting saves your night vision, but you need to PRACTICE...44 Magnum...OK if it's all you have but you need to LEARN the results and be ready if it happens again.

ALL the stories and posturing have things to learn from...the problem is ACTUALLY picking out AND practicing what is there that is useful...I see nothing wrong other than much of the muchness is just conjecture until you have to DO IT and work out what fits YOU best.

K.I.S.S. ...switches make for fumbling around at the wrong time unless you PRACTICE to where you don't have to think about it. All the foo-foo can give a false sense of security and even hinting at that causes angst and defensive thinking defending a position unless you take the advice as a learning tool and PRACTICE...way too many people talk about it, go to classes, but don't do the final test...PRACTICE until it can be done smoothly, without looking, without much thinking and CAN PULL THE TRIGGER.

If you can't take your weapon apart and put it back together in the dark, clear a jam, load you wheel gun or clip, and KEEP YOUR EYE on your target or while watching your favorite sport/movie on TV...well...

Good Hunting

quote:

ALL the stories and posturing have things to learn from...the problem is ACTUALLY picking out AND practicing what is there that is useful...

I started my LEO career when revolvers were king, When there were no decent flash lights compared to the ones we have today.

When speed loaders were looked down on and were not allowed for qualifications.

When there were no TAC lights no rails to mount them on

I ended my career as a multiple level LEO instructor teaching several disciplines.

I taught many LEOs and civilians how to shoot and respond to different situations,

Using high capacity semi-auto's with rails and lights.

Thankfully our tactics, equipment, training improved well past the good old days .

The one factor that remained constant is that among firearm users be it military, police or civilian.

90 percent really don't care much about their firearms, they own them and or maybe carry them.

But they never practice hardly ever shoot them unless "forced" to.

7 percent shoot them and practice some what more frequency and take their firearms ownership some what more seriously.

Then you have the top 3 percent they live, study and are the student of the gun.

The shoot and shoot. They attend matches, they are the gun guys. They reload or buy and shoot large amounts of ammo. When someone talks firearms they know and possibly shot or handled it.

When handed one they know how to open and check it or are not afraid to ask if they don't know.

They have large collections of firearm/ hunting books. They are the people who others go to when wanting information on a firearm.

There can be a large over lap. There are also those shooters who shoot a lot who are so specialized they don't know anything else.

If it is not their sport they are left in a blank.

Rifle/shotgun shooters who can't shoot a handgun-------- fill in the blank.

But one thing is clear if you want to be good PRACTICE is very important in any sport or activity.

Long ago from the Pogo comics strips, I remember a quote that goes like "We have meet the enemy and they is us". That was back when we were supposed to be against our Russian foes. Not so much foes now, but maybe they are our newest Trump buddies, the Russians unbelievable.

To each his own and I respect your statements and opinions. But, some of what you say doesn't make much sense.

Do you acquire your target and aim the night sights on your weapon accordingly using your peripheral vision? Not possible.

Can you tell the difference between your 6 foot tall teenage son (you may not have one, I do) and an intruder with your peripheral vision? Not possible.

You may very well be able to discern the presence of an intruder with peripheral vision. That's when you light them up with your gun light or a hand held flash-light and confirm they are, in fact, an intruder, , confirm your background is clear and allowing you to get your sights on that target.

Being able to see your sights is great (ever notice how when you run the light on a railed light gun, you can see your sights perfectly? All of the sights on my pistols stand out perfectly in that great big circle of white light.)but if you can't see and confirm your target, your ability to acquire your weapon sights means nothing.

Every situation is different, I understand. But, running a light on a rail on home defense guns increases your likelihood of confirming your target, watching what's in your background, and most importantly....increasing the likelihood of hits on your target.

Just my opinion. YMMV. Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
NO HOUSE inside is dark...unless you live in the boonies like me WITHOUT interior/exterior lighting other than the moon...there is always some kind of illumination either from night lights, exterior illumination into windows, clocks, digital garbage from every electrical contrivance you can imagine...AND THE PHOOL WAVING HIS TORCH AROUND trying to rob/kill you...if you can't shoot his **lls off you need MORE practice NOT GREEN/ORANGE/RED DOTS. And if you DON'T know where you are located in YOUR dark house interior, you BETTER START learning...NOT because of the boogeyman, but because of fire or extreme damage to your home from natural or other disasters.

I can't see sh** with or without my glasses and I GUARANTEE I CAN'T see the sights on my pistols but I DON'T have any trouble killing rabbits, sage rats, pine cones or tiny chipmunks with my pistols...not EVERY SHOT, but I can hit center mass of something the size of a man out to ≈50-60 yards without half trying...of course I PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE...ALMOST DAILY and DON'T believe any of the advertising bullsh** or horse apples/cow pies/chicken manure scattered all around to fertilize the grass.

BUT...if you believe it works for you then doit, it might just be all you need....better yet, hope the hell that kind of shit NEVER happens to you...

Pretty much ANY light will cause your night vision to go to hell, INCLUDING THAT THING HANGING OFF YOUR GUN...didn't ANYONE teach you to squint and/or look sideways...the rods and cones in the center of your eye are for fine detain, the periphery is for gross detail...thats why you can see things better by looking to the sides at night...try it...and squinting saves your night vision, but you need to PRACTICE...44 Magnum...OK if it's all you have but you need to LEARN the results and be ready if it happens again.

ALL the stories and posturing have things to learn from...the problem is ACTUALLY picking out AND practicing what is there that is useful...I see nothing wrong other than much of the muchness is just conjecture until you have to DO IT and work out what fits YOU best.

K.I.S.S. ...switches make for fumbling around at the wrong time unless you PRACTICE to where you don't have to think about it. All the foo-foo can give a false sense of security and even hinting at that causes angst and defensive thinking defending a position unless you take the advice as a learning tool and PRACTICE...way too many people talk about it, go to classes, but don't do the final test...PRACTICE until it can be done smoothly, without looking, without much thinking and CAN PULL THE TRIGGER.

If you can't take your weapon apart and put it back together in the dark, clear a jam, load you wheel gun or clip, and KEEP YOUR EYE on your target or while watching your favorite sport/movie on TV...well...

Good Hunting

100% spot on. Train and practice.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

ALL the stories and posturing have things to learn from...the problem is ACTUALLY picking out AND practicing what is there that is useful...

I started my LEO career when revolvers were king, When there were no decent flash lights compared to the ones we have today.

When speed loaders were looked down on and were not allowed for qualifications.

When there were no TAC lights no rails to mount them on

I ended my career as a multiple level LEO instructor teaching several disciplines.

I taught many LEOs and civilians how to shoot and respond to different situations,

Using high capacity semi-auto's with rails and lights.

Thankfully our tactics, equipment, training improved well past the good old days .

The one factor that remained constant is that among firearm users be it military, police or civilian.

90 percent really don't care much about their firearms, they own them and or maybe carry them.

But they never practice hardly ever shoot them unless "forced" to.

7 percent shoot them and practice some what more frequency and take their firearms ownership some what more seriously.

Then you have the top 3 percent they live, study and are the student of the gun.

The shoot and shoot. They attend matches, they are the gun guys. They reload or buy and shoot large amounts of ammo. When someone talks firearms they know and possibly shot or handled it.

When handed one they know how to open and check it or are not afraid to ask if they don't know.

They have large collections of firearm/ hunting books. They are the people who others go to when wanting information on a firearm.

There can be a large over lap. There are also those shooters who shoot a lot who are so specialized they don't know anything else.

If it is not their sport they are left in a blank.

Rifle/shotgun shooters who can't shoot a handgun-------- fill in the blank.

But one thing is clear if you want to be good PRACTICE is very important in any sport or activity.

True all that,but in the final inalascence,a Rem. 870 pump W/ #7 shot will stop the party immediately w/no need for a light.Will stop the problem,will not penetrate the wall to injure family members,can be pointed instead of aimed ,+ the beauty of it is that when you rack that slide (there is no other sound in this world + it's voice is universal) that generally stops the fight before you have to kill someone;a nasty business at best,but made even more unsavory by the current throck of "Ambulance Chasers." Only my opinion.

Again, thanks for the comments but the old hoary time-honored "once they hear you rack the slide on the pump-gun, they'll turn and run" is bullshit not to be relied upon. They might. They might also rack the slide on their pump-gun or Glock or Lorcin and start lighting you up.

The idea that you don't have to use sights or at least a bead on a shotgun and can just point it is again...bullshit. Run some firing tests on your 870 and see what the spread is on #7 shot at "in your bedroom" or "end of the hallway" distance. Not that much different than a Glock 19 in terms of your ability to put hits on the target.

Finally, and again, the idea that #7 shot will stop the fight is irrefutable...assuming you get hits and assuming you are hitting the intruder rather than your wife or son or daughter. Which is why a light is so important.

YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
True all that,but in the final inalascence,a Rem. 870 pump W/ #7 shot will stop the party immediately w/no need for a light.Will stop the problem,will not penetrate the wall to injure family members,can be pointed instead of aimed ,+ the beauty of it is that when you rack that slide (there is no other sound in this world + it's voice is universal) that generally stops the fight before you have to kill someone;a nasty business at best,but made even more unsavory by the current throck of "Ambulance Chasers." Only my opinion.