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Some guys seem to make a big deal out of a semi auto having a short and audible trigger reset. Of course this never came up that I can recall back when Jeff Cooper was pushing single-action 1911s. When did this become important -- and is it, really? I can't imagine under the stress of an actual armed encounter that a slightly shorter and audible reset would make one bean's worth of difference. Would someone who knows about this stuff convince me that it is really significant? I mean, are there actual cases where good guys came out of gunfights with bad guys saying,"Thank gosh for that short, audible trigger reset" ? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | ||
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Bill, I think that using the reset is something that takes a lot of practice. The theory is this; Once you have fired a round, do not let off the trigger / keep it held down. Take your aim for your next shot while still holding the trigger down and once on target, release the reset and immediately pull the shorter pull for the next shot. Yes, this works great on the range, but it also takes a ton of practice. I use this technique often, but I also practice without relying on the reset because in the heat of a bear attack that may not be an option. But it definitely makes a simple next shot technique. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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If your waiting to hear a reset you are too slow. Learning to shoot off the reset takes practice it can make follow up shots really fast. Is it needed most likely not is it useful most likely. Less finger movement means more accuracy and faster shots. | |||
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Thanks guys. I was thinking it was really more of a practical pistol shooter/connoisseur's finesse technique. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill, if you already know this, my apologies, but the issue of "trigger reset" has arisen in modern times mainly because of striker fired guns. Note, this is not the same as DAO guns. With a striker fired gun, the spring loaded "firing pin" is partially cocked by the movement of the slide. Pulling back the trigger cocks the pin the remainder of the way and releases it to hit the primer. Thus for a fast second shot, one only has to release the trigger until it resets, which is well before the forward stationary position of the trigger. I don't think anyone hears the reset, but one can certainly feel it when one's finger is still on the trigger as it moves forward. Why is this important? Simply for a fast second shot. Two shot pairs can be shot much quicker with a striker fired gun than with a DAO, but still not as fast as with a 1911 style gun set up properly for competitive shooting. I am sure that our resident expert mdstewart will find something wrong with what I just said, but that's OK. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Not trying to be argumentative, but the reset doesn’t apply just to striker fired pistols. A pistol such as a CZ75 also can be utilized with the reset function even though it is hammer fired. And yes, the reset option does not apply to DAO handguns. Not sure why you criticize me as the “resident expert”. Maybe you’re the resident expert of all things when it comes to shooting. Not sure. With my Tanfoglio Witness 10mm which is hammer fired, I can definitely get off faster follow up shots by using the reset. Utilizing the reset option definitely makes for faster shooting, but not necessarily more accurate shooting. I shot about 300 rounds today, half of which I focused on the reset. I also spent a lot of time shooting one-handed. To each his own. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Shooting off the reset is faster for follow up shots for sure. A person that is really good and practiced at it can be amazing. I have done it. It is fast. I shoot far many different types of handguns and actions to get real good at it. Is it necessary that a answer you can decide for your self. What one should be more concerned about is making sure, your not taking ones finger off the trigger then slapping it back to gain speed. | |||
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True, also if you are quick enough you can "beat the sear" on an M 63 Winchester .22 rifle. Not that anyone's done that of course. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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I found the best way to learn trigger set shooting it to think "bury it-release". Do it very slow. Then gradually speed up to "combat speed". When I was instructing officers, I emphasized the following mental drill "Front sight, front sight, front sight; bury it-release, bury-it release" Threat? Threat? No threat-low ready" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Slow for perfection speed will come. | |||
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Exactly, you do it over and over and over slowly till you have it perfected then you gradually reduce your time interval. A few tired and true sayings apply here: Speed is fine, accuracy is final. 7/8th of speed is smoothness. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Like anything else in this life, learn to do it right 1st, then fast; not the other way around. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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yeah, confusing yourself in a gun fight is second place and that ain't a good thing..I don't know of any place the KISS principle works better than in a shoot out. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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That's the reason I carry a 1911 A1; I don't have to think. That will make sense to those that know what I mean. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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BTW, 1911's have trigger reset too. All semi autos have it. I have never cared how loud it it was, because you can feel it. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not a real LEO, but have been through some interesting training. The audible part of a reset is obviously bullshit. Under stress, while supreme focus is common, so is "auditory exclusion" (you don't even hear the shot when you shoot a huge buck, for instance). With a lot of training and lots of bullets, the trigger reset becomes second nature and you can hose off bullets super fast. I prefer a consistent and reasonably short reset. Some are too short and can create inadvertent double taps (and shots executed not when you want - ie, off range, high angle discharges). My beef with some semi autos that I have shot is the reset is waaaaay out there. If you have ever shot a Beretta 92 with the hammer down, the first shot is like reaching across the table to grab the trigger. Some semi autos have a reset that is like the Beretta 92's first shot - every time. A gun with a reasonable length trigger reset, not too short, not too long, is good for consistent marksmanship. Audible? Huh? Who can hear anything at the range? :-) Dave | |||
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Dave, I am not sure what you are getting at here. Unless I am mistaken, the Beretta 92 is a hammer fired gun, thus if the hammer is down, the first shot is double action and will thus, always be long. Obviously, one wants the reset point to be quite a bit before the full trigger return travel, but not too short (as you pointed out) that double taps are off the target! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, With you on that one. There’s no such thing as a reset with the hammer down on a hammer fired pistol. Once the hammer is down on a hammer fired pistol, then the reset option is gone. Maybe I’m just stupid. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Dave is not saying there is a trigger reset when the hammer is down. He is talking abut the extreme difference in the position of the trigger for double action vs. single action. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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