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Slow day. I was reflecting on a particular instance last deer season. I hunt on a "trespass" lease in Texas. We lease a 1700 acre pasture out of a 50,000 acre low fenced ranch on an annual basis. Texas allows for concealed carry with permit, but not open carry. At my lease, due to the proximity to the border, taken with its remoteness and the number of hogs, I always have a pistol on my person. Saturday night of opening weekend of rifle season last year, we had game wardens check our camp to make sure we were "good". Many times I will have on a sweater or overshirt and my pistol is concealed, so I am "good" with the law. The Game wardens checked our licenses and tags, but did not ask if we were carrying concealed. I was skinning a hog when they drove up. I showed my license, but didn't think to inform the officer that I was in possession of a firearm. So here is my question. Do any of you guys/girls that live in Texas know if it is a requirement to inform a Game Warden that you are in posession of a handgun, when you are interacting with them? Best GWB | ||
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I have never heard that you have to carry concealed on a ranch, lease or not. Maybe ask if they would like you to surrender your side arm to set them at ease??? Perry | |||
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I have several LEO buds that I hunt with and open carry when with them. However I've never addressed this to a Game Warden. I plan to find out. GWB | |||
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You're on private property. Game warden may have jurisdiction with regard to hunting, but I would expect possession/carry of a firearm on private property is not in his purview. That's just a guess. But generally the possession/carry of a firearm on private property is not at issue -- so long as there aren't half-assed prohibitions upon RKBA, like in Chicago, New York, Washington DC. | |||
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If you are on private property you can carry any way you like. If memory serves, Texas CCL says that anytime you are stopped by a Peace Officer AND you are carrying, you are supposed to let the PO know you are carrying and display you CHL and DL/ID. If I was skinning when the GW showed up, I'd put the knife down, step away from it and let the GW know I was carrying. THEN DO EXACTLY AS HE/SHE SAYS! I just assume everyone is carrying and proceed accordingly. There's always at least one gun on every scene...mine! Robert Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Your response is the plan I will implement in the future. I have done a little more reading since my question and GW's are LEO's. I plan to make a couple phone calls tomorrow to see if I can get a confirmation. Consequently, I will let them know in the future that I am armed, as soon as practical. Best GWB | |||
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Depending on the time of year, there might not have been any 'game animal' season open. Since hogs aren't game animals, carrying a handgun open or concealed shouldn't be an issue IMO. Heck, if I'm carrying a .44 Mag in a holster for hogs, am I breaking the law since I have a handgun and it's not concealed? I don't see it being much of an issues unless of course you're cleaning a deer or climbing from a deer stand when you're checked. But then, what do I know.  | |||
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In most states "carry laws" only apply to public places. For example in CA, a store owner can carry concealed all they want in their business. I suspect in Texas CCW laws do not apply to private party. RVLIII's recommendation is spot on. Just like if I was in the field and a game warden approached me, I would open the action of my rifle or shotgun set it in a safe place and step away from it. I recommended this in a previous thread and was told that I was crazy because we are "free citizens" who should never disarm ourselves. My response to that is "then if you inadvertently start to turn with your rifle or shotgun and the muzzle starts to come towards the game warden you won't mind if he double taps you in the chest. Because clearly since you are a free citizen you accept responsibility for your actions and you are of course experienced with firearms and would never accidentally start to move your muzzle toward the game warden so your actions must be intentional" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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+1 on your post Mike. I learned at an early age, when you mess with the law, it usually costs both time and money. The old saying generally applies, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. An LEO is the law as far as I am concerned. At 60, I've yet to have to exercise my civil rights. Amazing how far being a law abiding OWF (old white fart), keeping your cool and employing a smile will take you. Best GWB | |||
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Im a few years behind (52) but  GeedubyaSSR | |||
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You are spot on. Be polite and compliant, always show them your hands. Yes sir/no sir and you usually walk away with a new friend/aquaintence. perry | |||
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Ok. Let me see if I got this. The same sherriff's deputys I see driving by, that I wave at when I walk across the road that divides my lease, when I can spare a hand lugging around the .270, are going to freak and call in a SWAT team if I strap on my Blackhawk? Is that about it? | |||
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No, CFS, I was asking if anyone knew the answer or could point me to a statute that would definitively answer about open/concealed carry vs. game wardens. In the instance I described there was little tension. The GW's came into our camp, were a little uptight at first, once they saw we were straight, everyone had a license, and everything was properly tagged and logs filled out correctly, they hung for a few minutes, had a coke and took off for another camp. In conversations with other hunters the next day it seems that a fellow had not properly tagged his deer. They were writing him a ticket when the fact that he was active military came up, they tore up the ticket. Pretty decent sort. In fact the female of the duo was a stunner. Best GWB | |||
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In Texas, when hunting on private land, ie your lease, you are on land "under your possession or control". Likewise even hunting on public land, with a handgun, where legal, you would be "engaged in a lawful sporting activity". Open carry is legal. Where some of this confusion may be comming from is regulations written under the Bow hunting rules, which used to state you could not have a firearm in your possession when hunting with a "broadhead" durring Archery only season. However, the Texas CHL laws supercede, that rule, and you are allowed to carry your CHL handgun when bow hunting... It states that in the Hunting regs as well. Also if you read the regs carefully, you clould also have a rifle, or a BIG handgun, in your possession, in the blind, when bow hunting for deer, for use on a pig, coyote etc... Here is a true and funny story. Once upon a time, on a deer lease in Texas, my brother was on the lease durring Archery season. He was not bow hunting for deer, did not have a bow with him. He was just doing some prep work for the upcomming RIFLE season, and was going to do some pig hunting while he was there. One of the other BOW hunters told him he could not hunt with a rifle, durring BOW season.   So, he stated what "Game animal" is in season in June??? Well nothing... But you can hunt pigs with a RIFLE in June, and the other 11 months of the year as well, right??? Bottom line is, you need to know ALL the game Laws for the area you are hunting in. And Obey them of course... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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FWIW, here is the statute that applies to my question GC §411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187. (b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor. I also spoke with DPS in Austin. The statute is plain. If you are not asked by an LEO whether you are carrying or not, you are not in violation of 411.205. if you do not volunteer that you are in possession of a handgun. As we all know, there is the law and there is "the streets". It's good to know the law. Having said that I plan to always disclose to any LEO at the first opportunity. GWB | |||
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Any time you are asked for ID by an Leo, or say your hunting license by a Game Warden I would recommend you show him your Concealed Carry License... Whether you have a handgun with you or not. Here's why. If a LEO sees that you have a CHL, he knows that you have undergone, and PASSED a background check. That fact alone will give you some credibility as to being a "good guy". Of course if you have 100 doves, 20 turkeys and fifteen deer in the back of your truck... Well then all bets are off...  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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At my 10 year high school reunion, we would joke about all the males in my graduating class were either HPD officers or fireman, or inmates at TDCJ. From time to time I hunt with 5 LEO's and have several friends and one family member that are LEO's. I'm probably more sensitive/sympathetic to their situation than many. Being on my third CHL renewal, I've had a number of experiences in regards to being in possession and interaction with LEO's. To date all have been positive. My question was in regard to a statute. I spoke with both TP&W and DPS today and got my answer. Best GWB | |||
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I'd think common sense and courtesy would apply...so, put yourself in the other guy's shoes. You're a Game Code Enforcement Officer. You are doing a check of a situation which your judgement tells you it is part of your sworn duty to do. You don't know who is at the scene, how many of them are there, if they are armed, or what their intent/capability is. In other words, you could be risking your life just by trying to do your job as it requires you to do. So, if you were in that situation, what would be the best thing the fella(s) you are approaching could do? Provide you a reasonable amount of info and show a friendly attitude would likely be a good start.... "Hi, officer. I'm Joe Blow and I'm hunting hogs here with my brother and two other guys. We are all carrying handguns because of the number of rattlers around here. Three of us have CCWs, and the fourth has his handgun in open carry. I can whistle them into camp for you, or they'll probably be here anyway within 10 minutes if you have the time to hang around. How can I help you, anyway?" I know I sure preferred dealing with those kinds of folks when I was a Sheriff's Deputy......and if they were in violation of something where I had to either cite or arrest them, my choice, I was a heck of a lot more likely to just cite them (with my sincere apologies & regrets), rather than cart them off to Chez Crowbar. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I have only skimmed the responses to this thread and may be repeating what has already been said. If so, I am sorry. I have had a Texas CHL since 1995, and my understanding of the law is that my only obligation is to present my CHL to a LEO on traffic stops or other "official" interactions. If I encounter a LEO at the grocery store shopping, I am not obligated to automatically confess that I am carrying.  In the OP's case, if I were "officially" stopped by a game warden, I would present my CHL with my hunting license, but if one just walks into my camp and doesn't ask to see my license, I wouldn't feel any obligation to tell him I was carrying or volunteer any information for that matter. As far as open carrying, when I am on private property owned or controlled by me, I can carry a gun any way that I dang well please.  | |||
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I open carry on property I have leased [in the past]. When I am out hunting I do not expect to get mugged or attacked in those areas...It is more for a close encounter with a hog. If I did hunt near the border I would still Open Carry...if that is where my lease was. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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Been working O/T (sucking up those tax dollars) so I haven't been in a few days. Game Wardens are Texas Peace Officers Article 2.12 of the Code of Criminal Procedure list who are peace officers. Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Was anyone arguing that point? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Personal Defence And Concealed Carry Open/Concealed carry & Game Wardens in Texas?
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