I am researching what I want as a CCW weapon. Here is some info I have so far:

Info I Have Collected On Concealed Carry Pistols:

Things You Should Know:

Weapon Carry Readiness Conditions:
Condition 0 – Round in the chamber; hammer cocked; thumb safety is OFF; full magazine in gun.
Condition 1 – (Also known as “Cocked and Locked”)- Round in the chamber; hammer cocked; thumb safety is ON; full magazine in gun.
Condition 2 – Round in the chamber; hammer down; full magazine in gun.
Condition 3 – Chamber is empty; hammer down; full magazine in gun.
Condition 4 – Chamber is empty; hammer down; NO magazine in the gun.

Handgun Myths:
• A large caliber is necessary to stop an assault – False. A cartridge as small as 22 rimfire will do the job.

• You need many rounds to be properly prepared to repel an attack. – False. Most confrontations where a pistol is involved use 3 rounds or less.

• A person selecting a CCW weapon shouldn’t be concerned with heavy trigger pull. A very heavy trigger will prevent accidental firing under high stress conditions. - False. A heavy trigger pull will usually result in inability to consistently his a target. (You may shoot a bystander!)

• Practicing shooting a pistol with heavy trigger pull will alleviate aiming difficulties. – False.

• Practicing with two hands on the pistol and slow firing is a good idea. – False. Most events requiring the discharge of a pistol occur slowly enough that there is sufficiant time to use two hands. – False

• It is not necessary for a person to consider comfort when buying his CCW pistol. – False. If the pistol is not a comfortable “hand fit” accuracy will suffer, willingness to practice will be diminished, willingness to carry will be diminished.

• Practice with plain ammo and load to carry with high power loads. – False. A person should practice with the same loads he will use under critical circumstances.




Handgun Types:
• Revolvers
o 5 Shot or 6 Shot
o All Steel
o Steel With Alloy Frame

• Semi-Auto (Can Be Striker Fired [No Hammer] or Hammer Fired)
o Semi-Auto Single Action (SA)
o Semi-Auto Double Action (DA)
o Semi-Auto Double Action & Single Action (DA 1st Round, SA Balance)
o All Steel
o Steel With Alloy Frame (Or composite)


Top Caliber Options:
• Revolvers are most often 38 Special and has reasonable recoil (200+ foot Lbs)
• SA and DA most often 380 or 9mm.
o 380 has reasonable recoil (200+ foot Lbs)
o 9mm has very “snappy” recoil (390+ foot Lbs)

If you choose the .380 cartridge compact version for your pocket pistol, this is not the gun you take to range and shoot all day. It may kick hard which at times could make it uncomfortable to shoot. Medium size .380 pistols are more pleasant to shoot with less felt recoil. The best of these are usually in the Walther PPK , Browning BDAC, and medium size Berettas. However, these are not true pocket pistols.

Other Caliber Options:
• 22 Rimfire
• 32 ACP
• 357
• 40
• 45

Type Option Considerations:
o Revolvers
• Revolver Pros:
o Highest reliability
o Extremely safe to carry
o Can be SA or DA
o Carried with rounds in all chambers
• Revolver Cons:
o Limited ammo capacity
o May be difficult to shoot from inside pocket or purse
o Bulky compared to small semi-auto

o Semi-Autos:
• Semi-Auto Pros:
o Easy for smaller hands
o Can be SA, DA, or SA/DA
o SA has easiest trigger pull
o Can hold more ammo
o Sometimes carried with round in chamber
o DA less likely to be discharged inadvertently under stress
o Some can be carried with hammer down
• Semi-Auto Cons:
o Slightly Less reliable than revolver
o Sometimes carried with empty chamber
o DA has extremely heavy trigger pull
o Pulling slide may be very difficult
o Pulling slide requires 2 hands
o SA more likely to be discharged inadvertently under high stress




Dominant CCW Pistol Manufacturers (and Models):


Astra A70
Beretta 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, Nano, PX4
Bersa Thunder BT-380
Browning 1910, BDA, BDAC(Compact)
Colt Mustang, Agent, Defender, Commander,
Czech VZ-52
CZ
Diamondbacl DB9
Glock 19, 26,
H&K
Kahr CM9, MK9 SS,
KelTec 9
Kimber Micro-Carry, Solo
Remington R51
Rohrbaugh
Ruger LCR
SIG P239, P232
S & W Shield, 908, 3913, Airweight 37, Centennial 642 no exposed hammer,
Taurus TCP
Tokarev
Walther PPS, PPK, PPK/S
Yugo M57




Forum & Internnet Comments About Specific CCW Pistols:

Kimber Solo: Poor functioning with rounds less then 124 grain. Inherently problematic. Significantly overpriced.

With any alloy snubnose revolver; recoil can be fierce.

Colt Detective Specials are a bit heavy.

Sig P239 not that accurate.

Tokarev and the Czech VZ-52 may have excessive muzzle blast.

Russian Tokarev cannot be carried "cocked and locked".

Kahr recommends at least 200 rounds of break in before carrying.

S&W Shield has a small safety that isn't very pronounced/obvious when you need to switch it off, it's in an odd place. Also has some sharp corners.

Ruger LC9 recoil is stout. The trigger is often terrible. Rugers sometimes need the actions gone over by a smith to smooth them.

Kahr have a long trigger pull.

Glock sighting is not intuitive. Uncomfortable grip angle, also short and fat, G26 is short on grip, top heavy, front heavy, blocky/fat, doesn't like reloads. Often terrible trigger.

Sig 228 is a good suggestion.

The FNP 9 has much plastic.

Bersa Thunder: Marginal reputation.

Sig priced $200 too high.

Rohrbaugh R380 priced $500 too high, costs about $1,150.00

SIG, Walther, Bersa, and CZ-83 are SA/DA so you can carry it cocked and locked, or hammer down on a loaded chamber for a DA first shot.


My Preferences/Recommendations:
• Stick with something that:
o Fits your hand
o Has DA/SA capability,
o Has adjustable sights (even if windage only)
o Has an external hammer,
o Has a safety,
o Has a decocking lever (Lowers hammer).


FROM WEB SITES:

Features of the PPK
It is a simple pistol in most ways. The trigger action is double-action, first-shot, and the operating action is a simple blow-back without the complication of a locked breech. The barrel is about 3.25 inches long, and it is heavier than the new breed of polymer-frame guns.
The slide-mounted safety of the Walther PPK is not difficult to manipulate.
It is heavier therefore the recoil is lighter, very accurate. The double-action, first-shot pull is long and smooth. The single-action press is smooth and crisp at just under 4 pounds. A slide-mounted safety and decocker are part of the design. Pressing the decocker down safely lowers the cocked hammer and, if left down, the lever operates as a safety. The PPK safety is easily manipulated by average-size hands.
The fit and finish of the Walther PPK is excellent. The 7-round magazines are high quality, and the magazine release is positive. Some feature a finger-rest extension that makes it a better fit for hands. Have checkered grips.
The PPK’s slide has a reputation for biting the web of the firing hand in recoil. In the past, the pistol also had a less-than-stellar reputation for reliability. They need more frequent cleaning and lubrication than some types.

Features of the Bersa BT380
The Thunder 380 has a light aluminum alloy frame that reduces weight for easier carry, yet the pistol still retains enough mass (weight) to help tame recoil. Due to the small frame, the pistol is very well suited for female firers, and males with smaller hands. The magazines, however are designed with an extra section of grip, so that all fingers of the firing hand are accommodated. The blowback, fixed-barrel design theoretically aids accuracy, and it appears that the vast majority of Thunder 380 users report favorably on that issue. The nearly straight-in alignment of the chamber and the topmost cartridge in the magazine seems to be responsible for the pistol's reliable chambering and cycling. The frame features a long rearward tang over the grips, which effectively protects the shooter's thumb web from hammer-bite or slide-bite. There are several safety features built into the Thunder 380: a slide mounted manual safety and decocker that blocks the hammer, a magazine disconnect safety that prevents firing if a magazine is not inserted, a long double-action (DA) first trigger pull, an inertial firing pin, and (in some models) an integral key-operated trigger lock. Some versions also feature an automatic firing pin block. The pistol has a rear sight windage adjustment.

Don't forget the Ruger LCR's

Poly/alloy/steel
Poly/steel/steel (357)

Watch youtube. A bewildering number of opinions.

Kahr CM9. Every fraction of an ounce counts. Carry everyday. Been 100% reliable.

e.g.,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCoXKU71xVs

I carry a S&W 342PD. 5-shot, .38 Special. It's a Ti gun and weighs 10.5oz empty. Stone reliable. Recoil isn't bad with Silvertips. It's rated for +P, but that load is no fun to shoot. IMHO the ultralight 357 guns recoil waaay too hard.

The revolver is the most relaible to shoot from within a pocket if it is the S & W "Lemn Squeezer" or its re-incarnation as the Model 40 and 42 and its successors. Even the old Model 49 is a good pocket gun but not as good as the Model 40 or 42.

Walther PPS in 9mm with XS 24/7 big dot sights. Get a quality holster, such as Bullard's leather from TX. use good ammo and don't look back.

S&W Model 60 38 Special revolver in stainless steel. Carry in a Bianchi #3S Pistol Pocket inside the pants holster. Top notch firearm and carry rig.

quote:

Sig P239 not that accurate

I don't know where you got that information from but I own a bunch of sigs and they tend to be more accurate than most out of the box semi-autos.

In addition, how accurate do you need a CCW to be? Get real, if you need to use a CCW, in 99.99% of the time, your range will be extremely close, usually under 10 yards, and often under 10 feet.

Just a few responses:
Much of what I wrote is from the many pages in this forum. Most comments are just what various folks had in their posts. I also did some reading taking into account reviews by respected gun folks.
As a result of much reading, and I admit maybe not enough, I have begun to establish my own opinions and preferences. When it comes to manufacturers or the various modens available, I honestly have no personal dislikes at all.
I have reworked my writeup and am going to edit it as soon as I finish this response.

My buddy tossed his 239 because it was not accurate. Wound up with a PPK. Could have been ergonomics.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Sig P239 not that accurate

I don't know where you got that information from but I own a bunch of sigs and they tend to be more accurate than most out of the box semi-autos.

In addition, how accurate do you need a CCW to be? Get real, if you need to use a CCW, in 99.99% of the time, your range will be extremely close, usually under 10 yards, and often under 10 feet.

quote:

My buddy tossed his 239 because it was not accurate. Wound up with a PPK. Could have been ergonomics.

I happen to own a PPK and I doubt very seriously that it will outshoot a 239, not to mention the PPK is a .380 vs the 239's 9mm or more. Of course, there are always lemons in any mass produced item.

Here is one reviewer's view of the 239: (note, I'm not saying that a 239 is THE answer, but it is a possible answer for a smaller concealed carry. If a woman was going to be the carrier, IMO a revolver would be a better choice.)

quote:

I was very impressed with the accuracy of the P239, which could produce a one inch group at 15 feet, offhand with no support. Sig is well known for its accuracy, and the P239 is not a disappointment. To call this gun “combat accurate” is an understatement.

Um, makes no difference as to the sex of the firearm owner. Stick with the S&W Model 60.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
The revolver is the most relaible to shoot from within a pocket if it is the S & W "Lemn Squeezer" or its re-incarnation as the Model 40 and 42 and its successors. Even the old Model 49 is a good pocket gun but not as good as the Model 40 or 42.

Don't forget the "go everywhere" gun...S&W 940. It's just like the 640 (a stainless steel M40), but chambered for 9 m/m Parabellum.

The 940 is a collectors peace about 3 times the cost of the 38 cal version, neat little gun since the clips that hold the 9mm are speed loaders

We do some training here. What we consistently see is glock, s&w m&p, springfield xd, and just about any revolver. These guns all consistently run well. And the more people train, the more they decide the particular gun is far less important than the person using it.
Didn't I just read a thread about a guy winning a gunfight with a shovel? Yeah, I did.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
We do some training here. What we consistently see is glock, s&w m&p, springfield xd, and just about any revolver. These guns all consistently run well. And the more people train, the more they decide the particular gun is far less important than the person using it.
Didn't I just read a thread about a guy winning a gunfight with a shovel? Yeah, I did.

We all remember the first rule of a gun fight have a gun.

Its need to go bang every time.

You need it with you.

It needs to go bang

Being some what accurate helps.
(I like sub 4 inch groups at 25 Yards)

Most guns are more accurate then the people shooting them.

I have had more then one student complain that their handgun was the cause of their poor shooting.

They just look on as I take their firearm and shoot small groups with it.

I had a client complain that his 239 wasn't accurate he was shooting7 inch groups at 30 feet.

As I tied to explain to him in a gentle way that it wasn't the gun. He gave me that look like it can't be me.

He said how accurate do you think it is. I said at what distance he looked at the target 30 feet away and said there.

I said one ragged hole he kind of smirked handed me the firearm and a full mag.

I proceed to shoot a mag full into one ragged hole.

I shot many makes and dozens of models it is very rare to find a firearm from one of the major manufactures that is not accurate for the type.

It does happen once in a great while.

Those camera glasses help a lot in showing students what they are doing when they pull the trigger.
Funny how their shooting improves when they know there is going to be a video of their sight picture and trigger pull.
It's a pretty helpful tool.

I actually just went back to my Astra A70. Goes bang every time and is very accurate. I went back to it because I found someone that made me a concealed holster custom fit for it.

Find a handgun that fits your hand, revolver or semi-automatic. Make sure it does not bite you when you fire it. Find a good holster maker to get a good holster that fits you and your gun in concealed carry mode. Fire enough ammo to be competent and comfortable with your firearm. Don't over think it.

Go forth and feel secure.

I'm happy with the accuracy of the P239, and the concealability. It is true the gun functions better with 124's and 147's. After some testing on my part and lots of reading I think the 124's are the best choice in 9mm anyway so that's not a bad thing.

I have one of the Ruger 380's with the laser sight. It fits in my front pants pocket and is undetectable when I have my 6+ in front of it.

Some express concern about its stopping power, but no one wants to stand 50yds away and let me shoot at them, even one round.

quote:

Handgun Myths:• A large caliber is necessary to stop an assault – False. EXCEPT WHEN IT REALLY IS REQUIRED A cartridge as small as 22 rimfire will do the job. EXCEPT WHEN A SMALL CALIBER DOESN'T • You need many rounds to be properly prepared to repel an attack. EXCEPT WHEN YOU NEED MORE THAN A FEW – False. Most confrontations where a pistol is involved use 3 rounds or less. SEE ABOVE • A person selecting a CCW weapon shouldn’t be concerned with heavy trigger pull. A very heavy trigger will prevent accidental firing under high stress conditions. - False. A heavy trigger pull will usually result in inability to consistently his a target. (You may shoot a bystander!) EXCEPT WHEN ONE ACCIDENTLY FIRES DUE TO LOSS OF FINE MOTOR SKILL/CONTROL DURING A HI STRESS EVENT- GO WITH A COMBAT TRIGGER UNLESS YOU TRAIN EXCESSIVELY • Practicing shooting a pistol with heavy trigger pull will alleviate aiming difficulties. – False. • Practicing with two hands on the pistol and slow firing is a good idea. PRACTICE VARIED SCENARIOS T TRAI MUSLCES AND COORDINATION TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT HAPPENS – False. Most events requiring the discharge of a pistol occur slowly enough that there is sufficiant time to use two hands. – False• It is not necessary for a person to consider comfort when buying his CCW pistol. – False. If the pistol is not a comfortable “hand fit” accuracy will suffer, willingness to practice will be diminished, willingness to carry will be diminished.• Practice with plain ammo and load to carry with high power loads. – False. A person should practice with the same loads he will use under critical circumstances.

A FEW "MYTH BUSTING" BUSTING COMMENTS- MYTHS ARE USUALLY DEBUNKED JUST AS THEY ARE FORMULATED- ON ASSUMTIONS NOT NECESSARILY FACTS.

The opinions expressed here are just mine-carry a two shot 22 derringer with a 1 oz trigger if you wish.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:

Handgun Myths:
• A large caliber is necessary to stop an assault – False. A cartridge as small as 22 rimfire will do the job.

• You need many rounds to be properly prepared to repel an attack. – False. Most confrontations where a pistol is involved use 3 rounds or less.

A large caliber is not necessary to stop an assault. But, generally, bigger rounds are more likely to stop it faster and more surely than smaller rounds. A .22RF firearm is better than no firearm at all but if the .22RF was a good a good choice to "stop an assault" than you would see the world's police and military forces carrying them as sidearms.

Regarding how many rounds to "repel an attack", it will depend on many variables, one of which is the caliber used. Most confrontations where a pistol is involved are going to be with pistols larger than .22RF. If you insist on using a .22 then you'd be much better off with one that can fire several shots quickly instead of something like a two-shot derringer. It would take several shots from a .22RF to make it reliable for "repelling" an attack.

CCW choice doesn't need to be so complex and confusing. There is no "one" best choice yet people often over think things trying to find that elusive, non-existent, solution.

1. Choose a firearm made by a respected manufacturer
2. Choose one you feel comfortable carrying and shooting
3. Choose one in a caliber from .380 or up. If you cannot "handle" the size or functioning of a .380 then, and only then, choose something smaller, working down from .32ACP until you find something you can handle, and handle safely.
3. Get used to carrying your weapon and shoot it periodically.

The two pistols you seem to be considering, the PPK and Bersa BT380, are both good small caliber carry options.

The one thing that I think is crucial is the balance between concealability and "enough gun". I have a snub nose revolver but it isn't as easy to hide in the summer as the P938. I've become quite fon of it, and the more I shoot it the better it cycles even the lightweights.

If you don't carry because you can't conceal it, you've disarmed yourself.

No matter what you decide to use, shoot it often, practice pulling it from cencealment, andgain confidence.