Very interesting! Columbine comes to mind, with an armed cop waiting outside "for backup' while kids are being executed inside. He was "following procedures". Having said that, cops are not trained for gunfighting. Many will retire, never having used their weapons in the line of duty. They are human and their first response is "survival". I can't blame the second cop for running away. He was trying to gain time and distance. You can't win a shootout with a punk at pointblank range! You need distance where your superior skills will provide an advantage.
You and I, with the lives of loved ones at stake will react differently. Once the fight starts however, all bets are off.
Peter.

Columbine just proves that you will react they way you are trained!

We are not trained that way today.

quote:

You can't win if you don't fight

That simple "no brainer" is lost on many, whom persist on following the trail of dumbfucktitude

Columbine has brought in a whole new era of police active shooter type training.

We have come to realize that unlike the old we don't want to hurt anybody and just escape. We have come to realize that now days there are people who just want to kill and hurt as many as possiple. To stop those one has to attack and stop them as soon as you can. That might mean going in by oneself or in a of team of 2 or 3 instead of waiting for a full swat team to get there.

That said each and every fight is differant and it is so hard to draw concluesions from one single fight. One can hope to learn and use them to help develop tactics that well help one surive a deadly attack.

Reteating or with drawing to a better position is a option that could be useful or even nessasary in some battles. Standing out in the open when there is time to get to cover would be very stupid. As would be not fireing arounds when one needs too.

The treat level, target isolation, bystanders cover ect are all factors that that a LEO has to take in before fireing. And considering that one might just have split seconds to decide to pull the trigger monday moring quarter backing is easy to do.

Vido does not always show the whole situation.

Pretty easy to be gung-ho macho online in a forum. When the bullets are flying at YOU, there's a whole different mind-set that comes into play.

One outcome of Columbine and Virginia Tech. is that school administrations are beginning to realize that "gun free zones" in schools are not the best option, that CCW holders have been screened, vetted, and need to be permitted on campus.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Randell:
Pretty easy to be gung-ho macho online in a forum. When the bullets are flying at YOU, there's a whole different mind-set that comes into play.

One outcome of Columbine and Virginia Tech. is that school administrations are beginning to realize that "gun free zones" in schools are not the best option, that CCW holders have been screened, vetted, and need to be permitted on campus.

Administrators in our collegiate system tend to lean for the large majority to left. They do not want to believe that guns solve anything. The interesting thing will be to see a place that has been debated and decided on as gun free have one of the tragedies hit. Since columbine I think there have been 1/2 dozen shootings on school campus' and probably the same at the work place that have made news. Only a matter of time.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Randell:
Pretty easy to be gung-ho macho online in a forum. When the bullets are flying at YOU, there's a whole different mind-set that comes into play.

I realize Randell is gone, but I'd like someone to explain that "whole different mind-set" that's supposed to come into play.

Because often safety lies in being aggressive.

Speed is life; don't get me wrong. But sometimes you can come across a man who can outrun you or has a faster machine.

At which point may be best to face the threat and put your heart in your work.

Before Columbine, it had become procedure in many Police Depts. esecially those with SWAT teams, to have regular officers surround and secure a critical incident until SWAT arrrived..

After Columbine,in many Depts that changed in a Major way.

Now in an active shooter situation, many Dets train their regular officers, that the first 3 or 4 that arrive WILL make entry and GO Directly to the active shooter.
Arrriving officers will continue to make entry in 3 of 4 man teams until the active shooter[s] are STOPPED.

Once shooters are stoped rescue operations will begin.

Many Depts. have trained ALL their Officers in active shooter response.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Before Columbine, it had become procedure in many Police Depts. esecially those with SWAT teams, to have regular officers surround and secure a critical incident until SWAT arrrived..

After Columbine,in many Depts that changed in a Major way.

Now in an active shooter situation, many Dets train their regular officers, that the first 3 or 4 that arrive WILL make entry and GO Directly to the active shooter.
Arrriving officers will continue to make entry in 3 of 4 man teams until the active shooter[s] are STOPPED.

Once shooters are stoped rescue operations will begin.

Many Depts. have trained ALL their Officers in active shooter response.

This is encouraging news.

You sound like you're someone who knows what he'd talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Randell:
Pretty easy to be gung-ho macho online in a forum. When the bullets are flying at YOU, there's a whole different mind-set that comes into play.

I realize Randell is gone, but I'd like someone to explain that "whole different mind-set" that's supposed to come into play.

Because often safety lies in being aggressive.

That whole diff mind-set is what separates men from liberals. The will to fight vs. the desire to place your very life and the lives of others on the mercy of your aggressor. Most people run out of a burning building while others run into it.

quote:

That whole diff mind-set is what separates men from liberals.

Huh?

Moronic words/rants, and troll bait

Peter.

Just pokin a bit of fun at ole JD, who was a screamin lib, and has been banned at least 3 times under various aliai. Surely you've heard some of the jokes about he diff between a lib, republican and redneck in an armed confrontation? Libs don't believe in the right to own a gun and use it to defend yourself you see...

You're right though. This is not the PF, just having a poke. No harm done. Thanks for callin me out. I do get pissed when others post troll bait, like the "death traps on your property" post this same dude posted earlier here. Certainly shouldn't do it myself. POint taken.

Sorry daniel77 I did not realize that! It is hard to tell jest from seriousness with just the printed word. Also I did not know of the history with JD.
Peter.

Shooting situations take the same mental preparation as a fist fight. You do not always have to get in the first lick, just make sure you get the last one in.

You just have to know that you and your family are worth fighting, to your death, for.

Rich
been there, done that...

This is one of the primary reasons I carry. If I find myself in a situation to stop the carnage before the police can even be called it's a win-win for everyone except the BG. Peoples lives are saved, courts saved the expense of a trial.

I only wish someone had been carrying in the recent AZ shootings and would have had the presence of mind and training to intervene.

Just goes to show that anything can happen anytime, anywhere.

Nobody was carrying ?! in Tucson !?!

There was a armed citizen near by in his words he ran towards the gun fire but did not arrived untill the bad guy had been tackled and was on the ground. So he didn't pull his weapon just help subdue the shooter.

Tucson is a very liberal area and has fought tooth and nail against AZ gu laws the city has been taken to court many times to have them follow state law.

It was no surprize that at a democratic rally that there was not a armed person in the crowd there.

News here, on the way home, reported that the armed citizen was across the street and ran over to help.

Notice I/they said citizen!

70 some yoa moving to the sound of the gunfire!!!