Some Insight into the Myths About the Shotgun

16 February 2011, 12:56

quote:

The Fighting Shotgun is one of the most common yet most misunderstood weapons available to the public. I asked J.D. McGuire, who makes his living building fighting shotguns for folks, to share with us some of the things he has found over the years.

http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/

17 February 2011, 00:16

Ole Miss Guy

Got lots of myths today! Good reads.

17 February 2011, 00:30

Rothke

Wait! Hold on here! Before I look at the link, I'm putting money down on the myth about "Just racking the slide on a shotgun stops them in their tracks."

OK, EXCELLENT article -- probably because it agrees with me.

17 February 2011, 02:49

Peter

OK, I have to ask: "Why are semi auto pistols reliable enough for home defense but semi auto shotguns are not?"
Peter.

17 February 2011, 10:19

COOL

quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
OK, I have to ask: "Why are semi auto pistols reliable enough for home defense but semi auto shotguns are not?"
Peter.

17 February 2011, 10:52

Rothke

quote:
Originally posted by COOL:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
OK, I have to ask: "Why are semi auto pistols reliable enough for home defense but semi auto shotguns are not?"
Peter.

Because there's a world of difference in operation pressure between a 2 1/2" trap load and a 3" magnum load? Shotguns are gas operated whereas semi-auto handguns are recoil operated. Gas operation needs to be adjusted for the load, and a semi-auto gas system in a shotgun has quirks.

Besides which -- Everyone knows the BG craps his shorts at the sound of racking the slide!

17 February 2011, 11:26

COOL

quote:
Originally posted by Rothke:
quote:
Originally posted by COOL:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
OK, I have to ask: "Why are semi auto pistols reliable enough for home defense but semi auto shotguns are not?"
Peter.

Because there's a world of difference in operation pressure between a 2 1/2" trap load and a 3" magnum load? Shotguns are gas operated whereas semi-auto handguns are recoil operated. Gas operation needs to be adjusted for the load, and a semi-auto gas system in a shotgun has quirks.

Besides which -- Everyone knows the BG craps his shorts at the sound of racking the slide!

M1Super90

17 February 2011, 11:38

p dog shooter

Cool my M1Super90 does not operate well with light trap loads. Great shot gun but with 1100fps loads it fails to chamber 1 out of 3 or 4.

17 February 2011, 17:35

Peter

Yes, but I'm not going to take my "tactical shotgun" to the skeet range,so, if I have a tactical shotgun by my bedside waiting for Armageddon why must it be a pump? Also, I can understand that target loads may not cycle a gun set up for 3" magnum but what about the other way around?
Seems to me that this argument is no different than setting up a 1911 with heavier springs for "combat" loads as opposed to bullseye target loads. What am I missing here?
Peter.

17 February 2011, 18:05

onefunzr2

quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
Yes, but I'm not going to take my "tactical shotgun" to the skeet range,so, if I have a tactical shotgun by my bedside waiting for Armageddon why must it be a pump? Also, I can understand that target loads may not cycle a gun set up for 3" magnum but what about the other way around?
Seems to me that this argument is no different than setting up a 1911 with heavier springs for "combat" loads as opposed to bullseye target loads. What am I missing here?
Peter.

HOLY SHIT is first to come to my mind.

17 February 2011, 18:15

onefunzr2

quote:
The Tactical Shotgun for Home Defense

Correct me but doesn't 'tactical' denote an offensive weapon?

quote:
They are called Tactical Shotguns simply because they are designed to be used in a Tactical type scenario by Police, Military or Security Officers. In a worse case scenario, they are designed to be used by you or me to defend our loved ones or ourselves.

This last sentence seems contradictory. It implies, to me at least, that there is something better. Otherwise why say, 'in a worse case scenario' a 'tactical' shotgun can be used?

17 February 2011, 19:57

TWL

You are not missing anything Peter. Your questions are legitimate.

To others who have said so, not all semi-auto shotguns are gas operated. The Benellis, for example, are recoil operated.

Why would one load a personal defense shotgun with a load that will not cycle? Even for practice? Beats me.

Modern day semi-auto shotguns, using proper ammo, are the go-to design for the majority of police and military. That is a fact. Must be some reason for it.

Real life home defense and personal defense situations represent the "worse case scenario", do they not?

17 February 2011, 20:17

RVL III

Pump guns still are the majority in my agency.

I think cost has alot to do w/it. We have to buy our own. Love to have a Benelli but not right now.

I think J.D.'s article is directed to the lowest common demoninator ie most aren't going to practice to become proficient w/a semiauto shotgun. Malfunction drills come to mind first.
With a pump, not as much to go wrong.

21 February 2011, 23:18

Gatogordo

Personally for a HD shotgun, I think it's ridiculous to spend any money for an extended magazine. If you can't get it done with 4+1 and the ability to reload, you're almost certainly not going to get it done with 6+1.

Also I think the idea of "hunting" the bad guys with a HD, moving through doorways etc is not such a wonderful concept either for the vast majority of people. Not counting making my kids safe, which might involve going after the perps, I think staying put and waiting for the perps to come to you is the best general plan. It's obvious there can be many exceptions to this, but my first advice to women in a HD situation with a shotgun or other firearm is to lock the door (bedroom or bathroom) and warn the person who is attempting entry that you will shoot. All this hopefully while or after dialing 911. If they continue to attempt entry then aim about waist high slightly toward the knob side and shoot one time. If the shot doesn't kill or disable them, most will leave.

22 February 2011, 03:50

crbutler

I am getting sick of "Tactical"

Tactics are how one applies violence to get the desired objective. Its not a bloody adjective as most seem to want to use it. One can use tactics to use a single shot rifle to take a hill or clear a room. The rifle itself is not "Tactical".

"Tactical" seems to currently mean "paramilitary" nowdays.

22 February 2011, 10:21

COOL

quote:
Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Personally for a HD shotgun, I think it's ridiculous to spend any money for an extended magazine. If you can't get it done with 4+1 and the ability to reload, you're almost certainly not going to get it done with 6+1.

Also I think the idea of "hunting" the bad guys with a HD, moving through doorways etc is not such a wonderful concept either for the vast majority of people. Not counting making my kids safe, which might involve going after the perps, I think staying put and waiting for the perps to come to you is the best general plan. It's obvious there can be many exceptions to this, but my first advice to women in a HD situation with a shotgun or other firearm is to lock the door (bedroom or bathroom) and warn the person who is attempting entry that you will shoot. All this hopefully while or after dialing 911. If they continue to attempt entry then aim about waist high slightly toward the knob side and shoot one time. If the shot doesn't kill or disable them, most will leave.

Some of us have one shotgun for all occasions.
Unless I'm hunting my M1S90 has an extended mag tube for games and HD.

24 February 2011, 06:46

icemanls2

quote:
Originally posted by Ole Miss Guy:
Got lots of myths today! Good reads.

Mythbusters

25 February 2011, 21:19

ChetNC

quote:
Originally posted by COOL:
quote:
Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Personally for a HD shotgun, I think it's ridiculous to spend any money for an extended magazine. If you can't get it done with 4+1 and the ability to reload, you're almost certainly not going to get it done with 6+1.

Also I think the idea of "hunting" the bad guys with a HD, moving through doorways etc is not such a wonderful concept either for the vast majority of people. Not counting making my kids safe, which might involve going after the perps, I think staying put and waiting for the perps to come to you is the best general plan. It's obvious there can be many exceptions to this, but my first advice to women in a HD situation with a shotgun or other firearm is to lock the door (bedroom or bathroom) and warn the person who is attempting entry that you will shoot. All this hopefully while or after dialing 911. If they continue to attempt entry then aim about waist high slightly toward the knob side and shoot one time. If the shot doesn't kill or disable them, most will leave.

Some of us have one shotgun for all occasions.
Unless I'm hunting my M1S90 has an extended mag tube for games and HD.

Agreed. My kids don't sleep in my bedroom and our dispatch might get someone to me in 10 or 15 minutes if my call is prioritized correctly. Locking a hollow core bedroom door and waiting it out isn't an option when you have folks in different parts of the house expecting you to handle the issue, whatever it might be. Not ideal, but armed confrontations never are. Same with shooting through a door at an unseen target- not much of a plan for a family man or a person who only has 5 rounds for that matter.

As such, I'll take as much on board ammo as I can get up to the point I lose the ability to handle the gun effectively.