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| one of us |
Just getting into carrying for self defense. I have hand loaded all of my rifle and revolver ammunition for years, but none of that (with the exception of grizzly protection in my .44 Mag) was for self-defense. Who rolls their own for self defense, and of those what is your favorite component bullet. I just acquired a .40 S&W. Thanks. | ||
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I reload for paractice carry factory for self defense in my 40S@W. Any decent 135 to 165gr modern hollow point well workfine. I have carried hand loads in 38spl 357, 9mm 44mag for self defense. | |||
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From a liability standpoint, I would NEVER carry a handload for self defense. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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+1 Find out what the local Police Dep't uses and buy the same. ______________________ Age and Treachery Will Always Overcome Youth and Skill | |||
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None of my 3 CF pistols have ever seen a factory round. All 3 are used for carry / SD / HD at some level. Good shoot = good shoot. Fave component bullet for the .40 (most often CC'd gun) is 155 gr hard cast LSWC. That is the current carry load, accurate and hard hitting. Currently working toward a "very" accurate load for that bullet. Might try working up a load with the 155 gr XTP but not sure if the $ / effectiveness ratio warrants it. | |||
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For person on person defense I would use a good JHP over a cast bullet ay time. The more tissue you destroy the faster chance you have to stop someone. Given adequate penetration I'll take a JHP any day. | |||
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This is good advice. Cold Zero | |||
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If and when a self defense cartridge is needed does a cost difference of $5 or $10 a box make any difference? If you never plan on needing it for self defense why buy it at all? Does it make sense to shoot reloads for self defense considering that ballistics tests which may be necessary for your defense would be not be admissable in court? No one is ever allowed to manufacture anything that is used for their defense in court. Ex: Shoot reloads and ballistics tests can not be used to determine if your assailant was 5 feet or 50 yards away. You might even wind up in court by shooting a bear in self defense. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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When I was in Walmart a couple of weeks ago they had some federal hydoshocks 9mm for 17.50 a 50 round box. heck of price for good defensive ammo. A couple of boxs and one has many many years of very good defensive ammo. | |||
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You should have bought them. I reload most of what I shoot 2000-3000 rounds a year, for carry rounds it isn't worth the time or effort to make that small of a quantity, 50 to 60 rounds a year. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work. | |||
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I have plenty of things to spend money on. Others might need the ammo more then me. I will not be hurting for a long time. | |||
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My fav's are CorBon or MagTech first. Hydrashocks, Golden Saber, Hornady TAP or pretty much any XTP ammo next. | |||
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As a couple of others have pointed out, I would never use handloads in a personal protection weapon. Nor would I use any ammunition that touted itself as extremely devastating, high expansion, etc. Low penetration, perhaps -- even though it is saying the same thing. Best plan is load with what the local cops carry. Sounds good in court if you would ever get there. | |||
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Any of the above mentioned JHP's should be just fine. I prefer Gold Dots, but doubt there is much difference. Our Game Wardens here shoot Gold Dots. | |||
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Good Luck finding ANY quality defensive ammo currently available. I check with my wholesalers at least once per week and they don't have anything. Most have even stopped taking backorders because they have no idea when the manufacturers will be able to deliver. Contributing to the current mess is the fact that the U.S. gumint has let extensive handgun ammunition contracts - larger than at anytime in history - and they call for delivery to them first. You can thank obamasama and the dimorats for the situation. I see no quick turnaround in sight. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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This is a good site to start. Lots of these dealers have ammo in stock. http://ammoseek.com/?gun=handgun&cal=29 My little local range has 8 boxes of Hornady TAP sitting on the shelf. Finding 40 S&W premium self defense ammo is not hard. If you shoot someone, where you live will be a much bigger issue than the ammo you use. Avoiding a fight is always choice #1. Too many silly TV shows advocating creating a confrontation mentality among people who have no idea of what a mess they could be getting into. | |||
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ammoman.com had .45 Gold Dots the other day, so I got 500. But he only sells in bulk. 500 or 1000, so be sure of what you want. | |||
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A Federal LEO group I'm familiar with uses and used both Gold Dots and Federal HSTs 180 grainers in 40 S&W. I respect their choice, but anything from the top makers (Hornady, Speer/Federal, etc) will do just fine. Dave | |||
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Since there has never been a case where a reload, used in self defense, was even questioned legally or civilly. There has never been a prosecution or civil suit that cited reloads as the reason. My reloads are more accurate than anything I can buy and I have a great deal of confidence in them from my gun. If they need to run ballistics tests they will use the ammo in the pistol. If I shoot it alll up then I will provide one of my speed loaders. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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+1 on PaulS' comment. The type or source of ammunition is never an issue. The only issue is justification under the law for using deadly force. Contrary to most of what is written, handgun effectiveness is based on two factors: shot placement and penetration, placement being paramount. Carry what what is absolutely reliable in your handgun and practice with it frequently, factory or handloads. | |||
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You are both incorrect and living in a fantasy world when it comes to litigation. The trial that can ruin you will not be the criminal one, but the Civil one that will certainly be filed by a shyster lawyer on behalf of the "grieving family" who lost their "breadwinner" who was a wonderful husband, father, provider, etc. that you viciously removed from their loving embrace. Shooting him was not good enough for you.... NO, you used hand tailored loads that were designed to expand and destroy massive amounts of flesh at higher than normal velocities for the sole purpose of causing a slow and agonizing death! Most likely, the jury of your "Peers" will be liberals with no firearms knowledge whatsoever, who believe that the police are but a phone call away, but you decided to take the law into your own hands and make yourself Judge, Jury and Executioner. The reality of life is that you have to protect yourself from bankrupting litigation by spreading the liability around. That Shyster will file on the firearm maker, ammo maker, holster maker, if you used a Surefire flashlight or if your weapon had a Crimson Trace laser sight, they will be included in the lawsuit. Your homeowners Insurance and anything remotely related to you and your possessions will be sued. Manufacturers have lots of insurance for these cases, and to avoid an expensive court defense, many will ante up some money which will miraculously assauge away the "pain, suffering and loss of companionship" that the family suffered and will also pay the Shyster and make him go away, preventing a court case. You protect yourself by spreading the liability around. That is the way our system works, and that is why you should NEVER use handloads for defense! You do what you want. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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All the points brought up in this thread are important. Which ammo to use? I use one brand of store bought ammo because it works every time in my HD gun. YMMV Are you prepared to fight a civil suit in a defensive shooting? Not every shooting turns into a civil suit but if it does it will get expensive. Is your attorney on speed dial? I paid my attorney a one time small retainer just in case. Do you have self defense insurance(there is such a thing) Is your DA an anti-gun asshole? Mine isn't. They throw ticker tape parades for homeowners that do the right thing.  Now move on and talk about something else. | |||
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Is there something in the water up in Washington - the state - or did their state government pass an indemnification law exempting the use of handloaded ammunition from liability claims? Those are some crazy statements. NEVER use handloads in a self-defense weapon. You can't afford it. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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And don't forget the phase of the moon ! My father experienced that ! The shysters can bring up anything their twisted minds can dream up .Sometimes it's best to hire your own shyster lawyer to deal with theirs !!  | |||
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yep.. always carry factory loads for self defense..... i like 158 gr. federal jsp for defense in the model 27....... | |||
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Speaking as a lawyer myself, I have to say that Lee440's advice is worth following. I am a business lawyer, so most of what I do is "preventive" law –– seeking to avoid anyone ever even thinking about going to court. A little advance planning of the sort he discusses is incredibly worthwhile. Sorry to say, that's the world we live in.
Norman Solberg International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016. | |||
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The simple fact is that there has never been any criminal or civil trial for a justifiable shooting based on the type of load used. That is a fact. If you are concerned about litigation then you should lock your guns up and retire yourself to calling the police if you have an intruder. There may well be civil litigation if you use deadly force but it will be for the action taken and not the tools used. If I ever have to use my gun in self defense I want the most accurate ammunition available so as not to endanger any innocent bystanders. The loads I use are nothing like the 40 caliber loads used by the police department - they are 357 140 grain HP loads. They are the most accurate loads I have used in my gun. The hollow point is used because it loses most of its energy in the first impact and will not ricochet into another person. It is not a maximum load - it is an accurate load and I used it for years in competition because of that. It is the best ammunition that I can get for my gun. I am a life member of the NRA and thus have liability insurance in the case of a civil suit following a legal shooting. I already resolved myself to the fact that litigation is likely following a legal shooting but it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and allowing the perp to continue to injure others. You are either prepared to take action and deal with the consequences or you should not be carrying a concealed weapon. Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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Another issue that I have never seen brought up before is what would happen if there was a pass through injury, where the bullet hits someone or something else after penetrating the intended target. Being confronted by a group of people at close range is one situation where I could see this happening more times than not. If you are using some sort of ammunition accepted by law enforcement somewhere, especially your local PD, you will at least have a defense in regards to your choice but in regards to handloads you'll pretty much be out there alone. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Whether the rounds are reloads or not is irrelavent. As Paul said, it has NEVER been brought up. Do a Nexus search. That is something stupid Masaad Ayoob brought up in the 80s that everyone has turned into another urban myth. I doubt seriously that someone could tell my 155 XTP from Hornady's and I certainly not telling. One thing my lawyer DID say when I got my CCH was to remember "If you pull the gun, it will cost you $50,000. If you pull the trigger, it will cost you $500,000". Be sure there is no other option. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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You are correct. Clint Smith carry's reloads or at least he stated so in print. Clint even stated that Ayoob warned him not to carry reloads and that with all due respect he saw no problem with caring reloads. This discussion came up on another forum and a criminal defense lawyer posted that he could make a good case for caring reloads for self defense. As to the bullet exiting the intended target and injuring someone else. I don't see that as a huge concern, what I would be concerned about is "where are the misses going? National average is 80% misses by law enforcement. The misses are the ones to be concerned about _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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