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| One of Us |
I think the 31 year old CCW holder who attempted to engage the Cop Killers and protect the other shoppers in the Walmart is a hero. To the anti gunners who say no CCW holder has ever attempted to thwart a mass shooting, here is an example of what a brave law abiding gun owner can try to do and get killed for doing the right thing. What say you ? http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014...-white-supremacists/ Cold Zero | ||
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Not sure I agree CZ. It does not seem like there was an attempt to kill people in the store. Monday night QB'ing, it does not look like he sized up the situation, and was perhaps unaware that there was more than one bad guy. Brave, yes, but perhaps there was a better way? He may have expedited the ultimate denouement however. Perhaps when we have more information we can revisit? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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My understanding from news reports is that when the cop killer entered Walmart he did fire one or more shots and that was the que for the CCW guy to act. A clear threat was presented. I am sure more will come out in the coming days. I do beleive, as is normally the case in these types of shootings that when faced with armed opposition, the nuts usally shoot themselves and this case was no different. While CCW guy was brave and well intentioned, he may have lacked the training to handle this effectively? Cold Zero | |||
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The quandry for both our soldiers and our citizens is when it is ok and appropriate to pull the trigger. The Dems want it to be a mystery and prosecute afterwards if the death is polically convenient for any reason. | |||
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CZ I think we are in agreement. I have never been in such a situation, but try to learn from others. This morning a saw some articles in various shooting magazines about: 1. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to draw it. 2. Evaluating the availability of cover. Heading for the "sound of the guns", is, in the mind of these authors, not always the best course of action for a CCW holder. It may be the first reaction, but not necessarily the best. My understanding is that at least one shot was fired into the ceiling followed by shouted slogans of some sort. I am not sure what this has to do with Republicans and Democrats. Perhaps lavaca can start his own thread on the PF where they can hash this out. In any case, as I said, I am not an expert but would like to learn from this tragedy. Certainly, as in this case, there may be more than one bad guy! I believe that scenarios like this are often worked out at the various shooting schools that teach such tactics. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Situational awareness is very important it is very easy to get tunnel vision and just focus on one target. Being tactually sound when approaching such a situation takes thought and training. As seen here one might only have mere seconds to make those decisions that could be the different from winning or losing. Most likely Wilcox's actions was a surprise to the shooters and threw a wrench into their plans. Train be aware and expect the unexpected. | |||
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Peter, follow on news reports said cop killer fired multiple rapid shots upon entering the Walmart. PDS, I was looking at it the same way. Wouldn't it be interesting to find out the level of training Wilcox had ? How many times in training have you been told, head on a swivel, scan, bad guys travel in packs. Cold Zero | |||
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There was Walmart Video released today. Husband was shot by Police, before the Wifey finished him. I saw no video of the CCW holder. I do think he hastened their demise thereby protecting other innocent shoppers. Cold Zero | |||
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This is a very good example as to why simply attending a concealed carry class is not enough. While the CCW holder was very brave for trying to help, it is pretty obvious that he didn't have much training in self defense tactics. Although, he may have had that training but chose to ignore it. 465H&H | |||
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It would have been great material for arguement against the antis had Wilcox been able to put both of them down. He would have been a folk hero. Cold Zero | |||
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I would like to see the rest of the video showing Mr. Wilcox's actions. Positions of the BGs ect. Most likely it well becoming out in the weeks to come. | |||
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Perhaps, the PD is waiting until Wilcox is at least buried, before the Monday morning quarterbacking begins. Post a link here when you see it. Cold Zero | |||
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Learning from real life situations is one of the best tools we have. We get to see what was done right and what wasn't. What one does with information varies a lot. | |||
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Just Google WalMart shootings... WalMart is one of the most dangerous places in the USA...   DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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A few years ago at the Walmart near me a man was killed during a sale riot. As a result of this shooting, my wife will no longer to go Walmart as it is too dangerous. Here is a video animation clip to shed some light on Wilcox actions and and the effectiveness of rifles engaging the acitve shooter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfzYYODEeEo Cold Zero | |||
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Based on Wilcox being unemployed and the family not having the money to bury him, I feel it is unlikely that he had the proper training to deal with this type of situation. I hope that he was an NRA member, then the Life Insurnace that comes with membership would be enough for a modest burial. Cold Zero | |||
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I hope no one is carrying a cocked .380 in their purse. I'm assuming that was a figure of speech. I was glad to see an example of a CCW trying to stop a potentially lethal situation. I wish he had been in Cici's. I think he would have been able to assess the situation better and nailed one or both of those two bastards before they got to Walmart. He was obviously well-meaning, but unlucky. What worries me about concealed-carry is that at a point in time the Samaritan can be perceived as the villain and dropped by another concealed carrier, or the police arriving on the scene. It is one dangerous and volatile situation until the smoke clears. | |||
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Joseph Wilcox in my books is a hero. He stood up for a lot for innocent people at that Wal Mart. He is a hero just like the school teachers at Sandy Hook. His actions and sacrifice at the Wal Mart forced these domestic terrorist to change their plans. It saved lives. Mike | |||
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My question? Why were the perps wearing diapers? It's a fact, just wondering why? Larry Sellers | |||
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May I respectfully ask you to consider another option for your wife in the event of a dog attack? I am a CCW instructor and have trained regularly in this venue for about 8 years now. With adrenalin pumping in a dangerous situation, the first thing you will loose is your fine motor skills. Training to shoot at the center of mass of the animal is more productive from a self defense perspective because it does not require the decision making process to interfere with the primary goal of neutralizing the threat. The time taken to refocus on a particular body part of the animal can result in precious seconds where the animal can continue its attack. | |||
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Two points: Larry, my thought is that either they planned on taking hostages and holing up for a long time or they had some strange fetish about not being photographed having pissed themselves after they got shot. Second point for concealed carry folks if you choose to get involved in a situation. Remember, the cavalry is coming looking for a guy with a gun. You look just like that guy. | |||
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"due to a lack of training ..." The police had training and didn't do them any good. A person carrying a pistol won't stand much of a chance against one or more nut cases. I'm afraid to admit that Wilcox should have headed for cover and only shot in self defense. I agree with the center of mass comment. It is easy for 20-20 reflections but when the poop hits the fan shooting into the center of mass is my natural reaction. When an elephant cow charged me unexpectedly at close range, I shot her in the center of mass (heart). No finesse shooting! Scared the poop out of me. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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