There's not a lot of info on this Ebay listing for red stag & tahr hunt, but I wonder if anyone here can perhaps identify or knows something about the seller?? -TONY

Hey try this link.

http://www.yellowpages.co.nz/quick/search?stype=specific&name=&loc=0&address=Methven&cat=0&key=hunting&x=24&y=15



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3 listings for "Methven"/"hunting"

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New Zealand


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New Zealand Four Seasons Safaris
New Zealand Four Seasons Safaris,Hunting,Fishing, Salmon,Trout,Guide,Vacation,Canterbury,South Island, Jetboat, Adventure,NZ,Lodge

Methven
www.hunting-fishing.co.nz

Fishing Trips, Hunting Trips


New Zealand Four Seasons Safaris

3 Cameron St Methven Cellular phone
0-25-399 129

Hunting Trips


Mainland Fishing

13 Cameron St Methven
0-3-302 8448

Fishing Trips

Actually, a friend of mine recently purchased one of these hunts on eBay and asked me if I wanted to go along for the same price. But I'm doing some research beforehand, just as I did for my trip to Africa last year.

The seller has no track record on eBay, BUT...he also makes it clear that the stag hunt is on a ranch while the tahr is free-ranging.

When I was at SCI in January, I spoke to several NZ outfits that conduct stag hunts, and every one of them said basically the same thing -- the hunts on private land are about the only way to kill a decent stag.

I don't know how true that is, but when I did a search on the web, nearly every one of the outfits offering stag hunts were private-land based. In fact, many of them set their trophy fees on the SCI medal levels, which I really don't give a rat's ass about.

If I did go, my aim would be to take a representative stag, and if it happened to be an above-average one, so be it.

Also, I appreciate the link, but the name of the owner of New Zealand Four Seasons Safaris doesn't fit with the auction hunt. I'm beginning to think he's a very small operation and perhaps just getting started. I sent him an email thru eBay but haven't received a reply yet. -TONY

Tony



NZ is a great place to hunt. Red stag are my favourite deer to hunt. The problem is some of the outfitters use tiny little paddocks and call it hunting. Also it is a common practice to take tame stags out of deer farms, sometimes once they have reached an age where velvet production is going backwards and release them to be shot. People have identified photos of stags from deer farm auction catalogues and later seen the same stags on some magazine cover or pages.



Another practice is to fly around in a helicopter, spo tahr or chamois, maybe land somewhere a little way away and then stalk the animal. Some of the outfitters even used to brag about this. But the stories in the magazines always brag about the difficult climbs up the mountainside, stalks and hunts.



Its often more about getting a bragging head on the wall instead of a true hunting trophy.



I think you are quite right about the trophies being hard to get on public land. There would be no doubt about that.



By the way my 12 point stag came from private land in central North Island near a wilder mountain range. Obviously there is less pressure on private land. But it was an unfenced dairy farm of several thousand acres.



The majority of oufitters in NZ all hunt on fenced properties. I guess a key is how big the property/high fenced paddocks are? 100 acres? 3000 acres? And the type of country.



Just check into the outfit well and hopefully you or your mate have a nice hunt.



If the stag in the photo is a wild stag it is extremely nice and I wouldn't turn him down!

Nitrox,



I did get a bit more info from my friend. The outfitter's name is Tim Buma, and he does business under "New Zealand Back Country Outfitters Ltd."



In an email conversation with Troy, Tim told him the red deer area is fairly large, though he didn't state the actual size. BUT..he said there is a very nice stag larger than the size included in the auction hunt roaming it that they have tried to kill for weeks and haven't been successful. So he told Troy if they came across it, he could kill it at no additional cost. Perhaps all true; perhaps not.



Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear from him personally before I commit.



Here are a few snipets from an email he sent to Troy:



On a Heli access hunt we camp at around 1,200 metres A.S.L. (Above sea

level.) the Tahr live at about 1,500 to 2,000 Metres A.S.L.

From these camps we can glass for Tahr right from the campsite.

Usually we spot them and stalk up on to them, or stalk their location the

following day.

(Best time to spot Thar is in late afternoon, they bed down and are hard to

see for most of the day. However they tend to stay in one spot, so if you

see them in the evening, you can hunt them again in the morning.)

The country is reasonably open and easy to move around in, but is very steep

in places. Tahr favour Bluff/Cliff systems in sunny places to hole up in.

On the 4WD access hunts we camp at about 600 Metres A.S.L. and climb to

1,200 or whatever it takes.



Most of the hunting takes place in the late afternoon, so often we are

returning off the hill and to camp in the dark. A good torch/headlamp is

essential. L.E.D. Headlamps are ideal.



Where we hunt will be governed by the weather pattern at the time.

Helicoptor access certainly saves a lot of energy, however we have to be

careful not to get stranded by weather, and miss flight connections etc So

may resort to more acceesible 4WD access areas if the weather is not right

for flying. We carry a phone compatable mountain radio, (Much the same as a

satilite phone.) which means we can make calls at any time of the day from

anywhere i.e. if we need early Helicoptor evacuation. Also good for weather

up-dates.

We will be putting most of the energy into the Tahr hunt, as the Red Deer

block is reasonably easy to access, although has some steep areas in it.

We will try and match the hunt to your fitness level. < !--color-->

Good luck. Maybe one of the Kiwis here can comment. I've never heard of the outfitter but that's not unusual.

The bloke I hunted with in 1994 did basically the same for tahr. He had air portable huts made up and dropped them off at the beginning of the season at an appropriate altitude. Then hunters were choppered up to them and they hunted from the huts on foot.

Yup, he also said that they use some sort of permanent "huts" for the 4WD hunts and then said the following:



For Helicoptor access hunts, we base in tents. Usually we have a two man mountain tent for each hunter plus a seperate cooking tent. We camp out in Alpine conditions. Often in snow. < !--color-->



It sounds like it can be a physically demanding hunt, so I'm not sure my 62-yr.old lungs that are filled with 47 years worth of Camel non-filter smoke would be up for the task. I can walk a long way on the flat or downhill, but steep climbs are a bugaboo unless I stop about every 50 yards to have a smoke. And I'm not kidding. Below is an excerpt from my book, "HOW TO HUNT COUES DEER." -TONY



To check your conditioning, try jogging a half-mile nonstop. If your lungs begin burning after 100 yards, forget racing up any mountains in the too near future because it gets even worse at higher elevations where oxygen is scarcer. If you�re totally out of shape, the rest of your body will react accordingly, maybe with some immediate cramping and an overall stiffness later on.



Trust me on the breathing part. As a smoker for more than 40 years, I know how it feels to suck for air. Duwane sometimes ribs me about it, too. A while back I asked him about climbing a specific hill he had suggested to me as a good one for glassing in unit 36B. Referring to my quirky habit of lighting up whenever I stop to catch my breath every 50 yards or so, he answered with, �For you, it�s at least a two-pack climb.� That translates to 40 rest stops.

< !--color-->

Nitrox,

After having a lengthy email conversation, I went ahead and booked the hunt with Buma. I made it clear that I wasn't interested in a pot shoot for stag. So he knows what my expectations are.

Already have all my flights booked and leave Arizona for Christchurch, NZ on May 28. -TONY

Good luck Tony, post the story and pics when you get back. You could even go and visit Muzza.....if your game

Bakes,

Will do just that.

Now, I'm not sure who or what "Muzza" is, but I know if my hunting partner hadn't already booked his flights before he contacted me, I would have urged him to extend the stay a bit. My wife even suggested such. But he has a real job and only has limited time to take off. Actually, if I was going solo, I would have probably blocked off a couple weeks and visited your country, too, since I doubt I'll have another opportunity before I die.

So as it stands, I have to make due with a only a week in NZ. -TONY

Tony
Muzza is a Kiwi that frequents this forum. He cops a hiding from us Aussies but he gives as good as he gets.

Pity you couldn't extend your visit and make it to Australia. I'm sure we could've organise a hunt for you somewhere.

Yeah, I just saw a message from Muzza in another thread. Up to snuff now.

One of the other problems with this trip was the really, really short notice. So even if I had opted to extend MY stay, it would have been a bit tough to organize all the logistics with only about two weeks to do it in.

Heck, NZ Tourism even offered me a media discount card that provided 50 to 100% off on all sorts of transportation, lodging, etc. I turned it down because everything I need for the week I'll be there is included in the hunt fee. Duh!

I did take advantage of the media rate on Air NZ, though. And man, were they ever efficient in getting it all lined up over about two days time. -TONY

Tony - go for it mate , you will enjoy yourself immensely , just being in a different country and being able to hunt as well is about as good as it gets .

Dont stress over not being able to get to Australia , imagine the Nevada desert stretching for ever , and then imagine that there is more culture in a pot of yoghurt , and you will have a fair idea of what you will miss by not going there

In reality , the distances are vast , the scenery is an awful lot of the same , and the hunting is not easy to find for an outsider . New Zealand is way more compact , has much more variety in scenery and closer together , and less flying/biting insects .And the hunting is spectacular even on a bad day .

You will enjoy your trip for sure , welcome to NZ- go for it .

Hey Muzza, good to "meet" you.



I can get all the desert type stuff here in AZ, and just about everything here either burns, bites, stings or sticks you.



I am really looking forward to the trip since I've wanted to visit NZ for a long time. So even though my visit will be brief, I'm sure the memories won't be.



So are you anywhere near Christchurch? -TONY

Sorry mate . I live in the North Island so no chance of getting to meet . There are some forum guys in christchurch tho , milosmate springs to mind as one .

Bring your winter gear with you , temps are dropping and it will be pretty cold at night in them thar hills . Better too many layers than no more to put on...

You will have a great time , good luck, and have fun .

So since I've had a article published in a shooting magazine, would I qualify for that card? Hmmmmmm Might be worth a shot

You are way further down the line than me , pal , and I dont qualify either .....

Outdoor Writer,
As Muzza said I live in Christchurch and if you need any advise etc let me know.
Shame that you are not coming a week later as the wife flies to the States to visit her family.
Home alone for 2.5 weeks, a hunting I will go!
I dont know much about guides as we normally just book a chopper and do our own thing. If you are going to camp at alpine level a guide is a must if you havn't done it before and bring good gear if they are not suppling it.
A GPS is a must in my book and make sure your guide has a mountain radio with them.Cheap insurance!!!
The dollar is dropping so maybe you could kit yourself out here anyway!

Milosmate

Muzza,



So just how cold might it be a couple weeks from now at an elevation of about 1,200 meters?? Probable snow and depths???

Milosmate,



As you probably saw in an earlier message, our outfitter is Tim Buma, based in Methven. He claims he has all the GPS, radio stuff covered, so not likely something I need to cart along.



The only extra gear other than clothing he suggested was a good sleeping bag/pad, rangefinder and flashlight/headlamp. I have all them covered already, though I hate lugging the bag on hunts where I fly since they take up so much room better utilized for other stuff.



But I should have some extra room in my Tuffpack since I'm carting along just one rifle, my 40 yr.-old Mod 70 .264 mag. In fact since I have some room, I might bring my tripod/15X binocs set up and show those Kiwis how to glass for game.



Hey, and check the question I asked Muzza above, too. -TONY

Tony , I am not the guy to give specifics on those questions . I dont have any knowledge of the area you will be in , the best guy to answer that would be the outfitter that you are with , or certainly Milosmate , he has the local knowledge on that part of the world . Anything I suggest would be a best guess , and that isnt fair to you or anyone else .
People die in our hills every year through being woefully unprepared , and I am not going to make a recommendation that may endanger you through my lack of knowledge .
We want more of you good folk to come here , and losing you in the snow is not a good advertisement for us .

As for weather and snow depth, how long is a piece of string.
It depends on the weather system at the time, if we get a blast from the south anything is possible.
All is I can say is be prepared, the country and conditions are not foregiving.
You may have great weather and say what was everyone talking about, then if you get a blast from the south you will understand.
I would expect it to be close to freezing at that level, take the warmest sleeping bag you have or even two.
A thermorest pad will make a world of difference also.
Warm gloves,hat and waterproof rain/wind gear also.
Put it this way, when I go hunting I dont plan a unexpected night in the bush or hills but are prepared for one.
As for snow depth, unless you carry crampons ice axe be very carefull as during the day the snow will be soft but come late afternoon it will freeze if it gets cold enough.
A lot of people say if you are hunting in the snow you are to high.
Im sure your guide is very experienced and knows all the ins and outs.
Have a good hunt and secure a trophy bull.

Milosmate

Muzza,



Actually I took those questions from a list I'll be sending my outfitter in a few days. I told him rather than do it piecemeal, I would jot down the questions as I think of them and then send them all at once.



Milosmate,



Appreciate that input.



In the mid-1970s I lived at 8,200 feet in the Colorado Rockies and guided elk and deer hunters at altitudes up to 11,000 feet. We had several mornings of 40 F BELOW at my lodge and averaged over 400" of snow annually. So I'm no stranger to that sort of weather. In fact, we sometimes get lots of snow and cold temps in some of our best deer areas here in AZ. Last deer hunt, we woke up to 16 deg. F one morning. Temps at freezing or above are a piece of cake.



That said, I'm pretty well set with warm clothes, gaitors, Thermax bakclava (sp?), gloves w/extra Thermax liners,etc. and a Dry-Plus suede rainsuit. And I even have a Therm-a-Rest ProLite 4 pad that I'm packing. It weighes less than a kilo. I'll likely just bring my more compact mummy bag that's rated for 20 deg. If it gets colder, I'll don my Thermax expedition-weight long johns. That combination takes up a great deal less room than my heavy-duty, full size sleeping bag.



I asked about the snow depth, etc., wondering if there's a certain time in the near future where snow is a regular occurence. For example, in Colorado we could usually count on the first storm hitting in late, Oct. and then we normally never saw bare ground again unil the next April. Our designated mode of transportation in the local area was a snowmobile.



So is this early or late fall now, and what's considered the dead of winter there? -TONY

Outdoor writer,
It is the beginning of winter, Skiers are praying for snow.
When it comes? who knows.
Any time now onwards anything is possible, the dead of winter is normally August.
There is some snow on the Alps now but not a lot!
If you are lucky you may miss the first big dump.
Sounds like you have the right gear anyway!
Do you have a watermate (camel pack) these would have to be one of the best pieces of gear I have brought in a long time.
Mine fits in a pocket between the daypack and my back, hose fastened to the shoulder stap, holds 2 litres.
No more water bottles

Milosmate

Okay, that's what I thought in regards to the winter months there.

Yeah, I have a Kifaru Longhunter with the Camel water pack, but I ain't lugging that thing along. I'm just bringing a small backpack and a fanny pack with a plastic water bottle I carry on my hip. -TONY

Just got back today from free range tahr hunt in NZ. I will post more details when photos come back: this evening or tomorrow. jetlagged abit today.

two guys hunted four days, shot four tahr 12 1/2 to 13 inches. Vertical ascent climbs each day were between 1200 feet to 2500 feet. took about 1.5 to 2.5 hours of hard as can be climb, although only little actual hand over hand up the really steepest of the steep stuff. Take a walking stick or use your rifle for a walking stick.

In three of four cases, we had to come down chutes in rock faces to make shots or to get to shot animals. slip slide and yippee.

One tahr rolled 400 feet down a scree slope after my kill hsot, surprising little damage to horns, but did wreck headskin. shot another bigger and better anyway. saw over 50 bulls in four days. We were on private farm, but shooting leasehold.

You are not going to show the kiwis how to glass anymore than they are going to show you how to climb!! the guy we were with uses tripods and spotters, and binoculars extremely well. He found the cliff dwelling tahr with his old wind river leupolds better than we did with swaro EL's.

You will only get a good stag if its penraised and kept in the coop, with only a day or two to hunt. you will be wiped out the first two days from jet lag. Local excellent deer stalkers went zero for four during the roar, and we did not see any WILD stag at all in two days of light glassing between rainsqualls. You will learn about the NZ helicopter as important to kiwi deer hunters as horses and bird dogs are to hunters in USA. Do not disparage them, because of the different culture.

Tahr are tuff animals, I Noslered them, but it took several bullets to complete the kill, even after a spine shot and two shoulder shots on one old boy. Our bulls were all 6.5 years old.

they are very wary, so smell and motion kept to a minimum once within 300 meters or so. My kill shots were at 200 to 450 yards, range finder is essential. nice tip to leave with guide is your rangefinder.

If you are sucessful with a nice free range tahr, you will be wanting to use helicopter access, by your admission of smokers lung. I ran three miles two-three times a week, with a backpack, to fit for this hunt, and was glad I did. It was like climbing the steepest grassy slope imaginable, and if wet or frozen, good luck.

Weather will not be bitter cold, but we had an inch to four inches of rain and 40-50 mile winds most days. Your milage may vary. We shot animals at the snow line, or in up to 6 inches of snow.

Do not be afraid to look for a good tahr by looking for white mane, and WHITE FLANKS. lesser tahr have dark mane and no white on flanks. Our local buddy that guided us has killed 150 tahr (most nannies during cull hunts), and he could tell a good one from a lessthangood one, but it was hard for us newbies until we had a few on the ground to tell an immature bull from a good bull. TAKE YOUR !%BINOCULARS< because you will enjoy wathching them race around on the cliffs as much as you will enjoy shooting them. They can climb vertical faces by jumping back and forth between walls, going up chimneys, chutes, and unbelievable things you will not dream of attempting. But you get above them and peek over the topside, and you will be successful. Do not be surprised if the helicopter pilot wants you to shoot from the bug, or wants to herd animals to you. Americans and europeans have a pretty fuzzy reputation for putting up with such low life action, due to the KIWI traditions of cullshooting pest species.

I will post pictures later.

Horn bases of 9 inches and horns of 13 inches are considered whoppers. typical mature bull is 8 inch base and 12 inch horns. LOOK FOR BIG WHITE FLUFFY MANES cause you are not going to be able to measure horns on animals a mile away, even with swarovski HD scopes and swaro 15 power glasses. at least we could not.

The big stags I saw at he taxidermist ALL came from fenced paddocks, and you will see thousands of domstic raised red deer, on farms. probably see more "tame" red deer than cattle. It is shooting fish in a barrel. But it can be a pretty big barrel.

best of luck, and probably a good reason to quit smoking. I am glad I did ten years ago, so I can still do these things.
But you did not ask about that... our shooters were 52 and 57 years old. One fit and one tuff as nails. He got his huffing and puffing, and just took the time to walk up and did the whole herd.

Jameister

Great stuff! And you thought it was going to be a picnic in the park...
Pleased you had a good time , and some success . Look forward to the pictures.Get some sleep, you will feel like crap for a couple of days for sure .

Jameister,

Great info! Sounds like you had a super hunt. Can't wait to see the photos either.

I'm gonna digest all you wrote and come up with some questions, probably manana. So stay tuned. -TONY

Well Done,
Glad you had a good time and got some animals.
The country is not for the faint hearted is it.
Which area you were hunting?
Did you see any Chamois where you were hunting?
The Tahr and Chamois are beautifull animals and its a shame certain people want them exterminated!!
Look forward to seeing the pics.

Milosmate

OK guys. how do I post an image without a URL address?

Jameister

Jameister,



No can do. First you need to upload it to a hosting site, or if you want, you can email it to me and I'll provide you with the URL to post it here. See PM here for my email addy. -TONY

OK< after a day of rest, here goes.



got to South Island after the long flight. Did a farm visit for wild free range stag, but got rained out, so went straight to the high country.

stayed in the hut shown.



Note that the blue sky is the only clear day of 14 in country. all the rest were rainy, windy, or both. The clear day had winds of 20-40 mph. I held 18 inches into the wind to hit my tahr at 450 yards.









Then it was glass, glass glass for the right animals. the country is steep, as shown on the picture;













Do the steep climb, after finding the right animal in a place accessible. Many of hte bulls we saw were rather unapproachable, due to their preference for impossible steep narrow chutes and cliffs where they could see down, but we could not get behind or above them. I went up to the top of the draw, from behind, the tahr were at snowline shown on the photo. More specifically, the tahr were just above the shaded snow, in the sunny area, course both the shadow lines and the tahr had moved during the 2 1/2 hours it took to make the stalk.







Then, after several hours steep walk, a few resting moments, and 2500 feet vertical, we were above snow line, where the big ones hang out.







After making our way to a good vantage point, the shooting started. and got this nice 12 7/8 inch bull.







Over 50 tahr vacated these chutes when the shooting started, and it was not possible to get the grandaddy we went up after. no complaints though, because this one at 410 yards for the first shot, and 450 for the final kill shot, presented enough challenge. All total, we were able to make a very succesful hunt without helicopters, and we earned our trophies. These tahr are not fragile. I placed three nosler 140 grain partitions into the shoulder of one and it still did not expire quickly. Another one took one into the base of the neck spine (shot from above) that dropped it in its tracks, but it took two more shots to end its movements, even after the 15 minutes it took to scale the narrow cliff to approach it. The nosler, at 3200 fps in my 280AI did not exit the animals.



Even after killing two bulls, there were curious tahr sticking their heads over the skyline and whistling and watching us. sorry the other pictures did not come out.

Then the walk out just before dark. steep but elated downhill for three four miles.











Thanks to outdoor writer (ton) for making this so the links are automatic.



Jameister

Jamie,



Edit your message and rather than PASTING the URL in the message box, click the IMAGE link UNDER the message composition box, then paste the URL in the input box. It will properly place the image whereever you had the cursor so it appears in your message without having to click a link to view it.



OR....you can simply add [image] immediately before each link and [/image] immediately after each one. Same result.



Also, delete all those WEB PAGE links -- not necessary. -TONY