Bloke I know wrote about his trip to Nam and
was kind enough to give me a manuscript disk
to read. Don't think it ever got published,and
I don't know that he wanted it to be.
I printed it out and tried to edit it for him
but turned out he was a better writer than I was an editor.
Anyway, a good read until a section on the personal weapons of the other side.
He said "they" were better off because they could use our ammo (7.62) but we couldn't use
theirs (7.62x39). So I rang him up and said
I didn't think that was right and should be deleated. He said (some instructor) told him that. He wasn't in the best of health so I didn't press it, so I don't know if he just
misunderstood a throwaway comment, or someone instructing in the army thinks that because
a 7.62x39 has a proj of about .311 they can
fire our 7.62x51 (.308) in an AK-47.
Are there any Vets on line that
can comment on that?
No ratbags please. No codes. Just real people.
Thanks.
John L.

Neither ammo is compatible with the other weapon, .311 wont go down a .308 tube and neither will a 51mm case fit in a 39mm chamber.

Just a throw-away comment as you suggest from a REMF Instructor who should have known better!!!

TheKiwi.

I would put it to you that a 311 will go down a 308 bore, pressure would be up. A copper wash steel jacket may cause a few problems though.
I think Hatcher tried stuff like this, would look up my book but it is packed away. Maybe the instructor meant the enemy would use any weapon they could find - so had some fal's where as the aussies were not allowed to arm themselves with ak's they found

I know a 308win wont go down a 270win as a friend tried it(got excited shooting goats and picked up wrong ammo) with disasterous results, luckyly he got his sight back but unforntinately not full use of his fingers.

Firing a 7.62 x 39 in a 7.62 x 51 chamber would sure test the gas-venting system on your rifle , but you definately cannot chamber a 51 mm long case in a 39mm chamber . I suspect the guys were talking about weapons retrieved from the battlefield - the VC would have used whatever was available to them .

The only weapon system that comes to mind where the other side could use allied ammo would be with the 81mm mortar ammo in there 82mm tubes.

Hog Killer

Muzza
you can fit and shoot a 7.62x51 in a mosin nagant which is 7,62x? rimmed ,extraction is a bit of a problem but it will work. the mosin cartridge won't fit into the chamber of a 7.62x51.
hope this helps
cheers
Pete

Hog Killer is right with Mortar ammo but I know of no other small arm ammo.
Steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by darwinmauser:
Muzza
you can fit and shoot a 7.62x51 in a mosin nagant which is 7,62x? rimmed

---

The # you are looking for is 54

Hog Killer

that would be it, thanks Hog Killer

Geez guys , if you want to get real teknical you can fire any of the 30-06 case head cartridges ( 308, 243, 270 , 6.5 x 55 , 250 Savage etc ) in a 30-06 but the point of the posting was VC troops using the other guys ammo . I dont think there were a lot of Mosin Nagant rifles in Vietnam , more like AK47 vs SLR.
I feel a wandering off the topic occurring....

Actualy Muzza there were a fair number of MN's in 'nam, mostly Chi-com copies (can't remember the desg #, don't have referances at work). I had one that was brought back (buddies brother picked it out of a rice paddy). They deploied them both for sniping (skilled shooters) and harrassment (old men/children firing towards a base) fire.

I think the 6.5x55 has a bigger head than the 06 Muzza.

There were plenty of nagants in V/Nam as the Chinese made them.

Bakes,
The Swede did indead have a larger head size,but the modern brass(WIN) has a '06 size now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bakes:
I think the 6.5x55 has a bigger head than the 06 Muzza.

---

What 06 Muzza, is this a new SSMagnum? sounds
like a good calibre to me.

Nope 06 and 6.5x55 both have the same base diameter and were originally based off the 8x57. All the USA did was lengthen the case and downsize the neck.

kokdyer
the Swedish 6.5x55 according to my Hornady manual 4th edition ,page 236 states "the 6.5x55 differs from the rest of the Mauserwerk's smokeless powder military cartridges in not sharing the same basic case it's head diameter is .015" larger and it's rim is somewhat thicker"
but US cases are made on the 30.06 or 8 mil base .
cheers
Pete

darwinmauser said:

quote:

---

The Jews were a proud people and throughout history they had
trouble with unsympathetic Genitals.

---

Mate, I sincerely hope you meant Gentiles, not Genitals. Otherwise, we are all truly in sheep dip, err, deep sh …

Edited: Awww shit, I just realised this is some sort of signature line -- sorry, mate.

west aussie
that was writen by a 6 year old in an exam for religious education, my sister sent me a list of about a dozen different ones , I liked this one so I kept it.

west aussie
I found the email back so you can have a look at the whole text.

enjoy

Catholic School Test
Pay special attention to the wording and spelling.
It comes from a
Catholic elementary school test. Kids were asked questions about the old
and new testaments. The following statements about the Bible were
written by children. They have not been retouched nor corrected. (i.e.,
incorrect spelling has been left in).

1. In the first book of the bible, Guinessis. God got tired of
creating the world so he took the sabbath off.

2. Adam and Eve were created from an Apple tree. Noah's wife was
called Joan of Ark. Noah built an ark and the animals came on in pears.

3. Lots wife was a pillar of salt during the day, but a ball of fire
during the night.

4. The Jews were a proud people and throughout history they had
trouble with unsympathetic Genitals.

5. Sampson was a strongman who let himself be led astray by a Jezebel
like Delilah.

6. Samson slayed the Philistines with the axe of the Apostles.

7. Moses led the Jews to the Red sea where they made unleavened bread
which is bread without any ingredients.

8. The Egyptians were all drowned in the dessert, Afterwards, Moses
went up to Mount Cyanide to get the ten ammendments.

9. The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple.

10. The seventh Commandment is thou shalt not admit adultery.

11. Moses died before he ever reached Canada . Then Joshua led the

Hebrews in the battle of Geritol.

12. The greates miricle in the bible is when Joshua told his son to
stand still and he obeyed him

13. David was a Hebrew king who was skilled at playing the liar. He

fought the Finkelsteins, a race of people who lived in bibical times.

14. Solomon, one of Davids sons, had 300 wives and 700 porcupines.

15. When Mary heard she was the mother of Jesus, she sang the Magna
Carta.

16. When the three wise guys from the east side arrived, they found
Jesus in the manager.

17. Jesus was born because Mary had an immaculate contraption.

18. St. John the blacksmith dumped water on his head.

19. Jesus enunciated the Golden Rule, which says to do unto others

before they do one to you. He also explained, a man doth not live by
sweat alone.

20. It was a miricle when Jesus rose from the dead and managed to get
the tombstone off the entrance.

21. The people who followed the lord were called the 12 decibels.

22. The epistels were the wives of the apostals.

23. One of the oppossums was St. Matthew who was also a taximan.

24. St. Paul cavorted to Christianity, he preached holy acrimony, which
is another name for marraige.

25. Christians have only one spouse. This is called monotony.

quote:

---

Originally posted by west aussie:
darwinmauser said:

[QUOTE]

Edited: Awww shit, I just realised this is some sort of signature line -- sorry, mate.

---

But sometimes the quip suits the occasian, I was
only just reading someone trying to get someone
back into line, and their signiture read like,
When you start to think you are someone special
try ordering someone elses dog around.

quote:

---

The Swede did indead have a larger head size,but the modern brass(WIN) has a '06 size now.

---

Has anyone measured one against the other?

The 6.5x55 is 0.476 while the '06 is 0.473". Close enough to not worry; bullshit, that is why PMC/Rem/Win cases develop a bulge at the solid head after 2 or 3 firings. PMC are notorious for actually separating!

I run Norma or CA (S/F hole)or original Berdan primed military cases for long case life.

G'day Bad Ass, like the new hat. You're right about the different rim diameters and thicknesses twix the Swede and the '06, I use cases from both families in my MAS 36, suitably altered. Bit of a bulge with the '06s but nothing to write home about. BTW the PMC '06s are my choice for reforming as the Winchester brass is thicker and requires neck turning before use in the MAS. BTW2 If one is very adventuristic the 7.62x39 can be fired in a 308/'06/8mm/MAS/or whatever BUT it wouldn't be pretty.

JAL;What he was talking about were the AK74 they fired the 5.45x39 and they could fire US ammo but not the reverse for M-15.w/regards

Ummm, Well I don't think the 5.45x39 was around
during the Vietnam war???
Colin was writing about Australians with 7.62x51
and them with 7.62x39.
But 2nd-3rd hand, who knows forsure what he
thought he heard.
John L.

JAL,

You are right the AK74 roundn never was in Viet Nam. The USSR didnot put it into the field until their little trip into Afganistan.

SOF magazine, brought out the first rounds to the West. They beat the CIA on that and the Soviet 30mm automatic grenade launcher.

Hog Killer

Thanks for the enligtenment I didnt know when the AK47 was intoduced but knew I had read that the US ammo could be fired in it.w/regards

Thats the ak74, the ak47 was 7.63x39 the ak74 was 5.45x39

And sorry about the crack about Humpty Doo (if
you saw it.) In the late 60's there was something there. It was a funny looking bloke
in a pith helmet. I asked him what he was doing.
He said the gov. was doing a servey to see how
many magpie geese they could feed by growing
rice for them. I found a "seeding pond"? a bit
north? on Kemp strip, so jumped in to cool off.
Got a photo of me in it but can't post photos
:-(

My old man is a aussie vet,He has photos of a slr L1A1 converted too fire 7.62/39 rounds and use ak mags.

JAL
Humpty Doo is an unfortunate name but we live with it

quote:

---

Originally posted by darwinmauser:
JAL
Humpty Doo is an unfortunate name but we live with it

---

No, I like the name, it's the people were a bit
funny. Like these two buf. shooters I ran into. They had Rem B/A .375 H&H's butt down in
a rack on the Toy-ota, with the bolt closed as
they held the trigger back. "It's not cocked
you see" they told me. "Hasen't gone off yet then"?, I says. So I got outer there quickish. But I think they were a bit further
Eastish. (Um, I meant bolt closed on a live round, with the fireing pin resting on the primer) :-(

It is late and I'm too lazy to verify this, but I think he is confusing vietnam with WW2. I believe the 7.7 Arisaka can chamber a 30-06 in a pinch, but not the other way around.

Sorry, don't think so, He was in Vietnam and was
told "something" directly from a superior.
So he perhaps misunderstood a quip on the diameters of the 7.62nato re 7.62x39, or the lecturer didn't know anything about it. (I believe he was in the Artillary, so no doubt noone was too concerned about it.)
I just didn't want it in his book should it be
published.
John L.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
It is late and I'm too lazy to verify this, but I think he is confusing vietnam with WW2. I believe the 7.7 Arisaka can chamber a 30-06 in a pinch, but not the other way around.

It'd be more likely to chamber a 7.7x58 (Arasaka) in a 7.62x63 (30-06) chamber than the other way around.
Somewhat off topic, however the 8x50R Austrian can chamber and fire the 7.62x54R Russian safely.

The 7.62 nato can and has been used in the 7.62x54 mosin nagant rifle. The trick used to be that they rolled a peice of string around the extractor groove to center the cartridge in the chamber (for firing pin strike) and so the string could be used to pull the spent case out.
This went on in Vietnam regularly, Afganistan, and in Yugoslavia. I wouldn't try it myself but would certainly consider it if someone else was shooting at me and I had no other options.

G'day,
JAL, yes I can confirm the vet's story, I remember being told the same thing. Whem I pointed out the differences between the rounds to the moron REMF instructor, I got the usual " I am the sargent, you are the recruit, so shut up and do push ups until I tell you to stop!" Yes, rational arguement Vs Instituional indifference and rank. Guess which one wins?
Hog killer is quite right, the only ammo we had which will work in their kit is the 81mm mortar, both the Yanks andthe VC/NVA had 60mm mortars, we did not.
As for the 5.45x39 Vs 5.56 nato, I think you will find you cannot chamber the one in the other, overall length Vs case head size? Since the 5.45 was not in circulation at the time it is probably a moot point.

Cheers, Dave.

kokdyer and darwinmauser

The 6,5x55 is neither a Mauser cartrigde nor a Swedish invention.

The united kingdom of Sweden and Norway (1814-1905) is the country of origin for the 6,5x55
It was made by a joint Swedish-Norwegian group of engineers. Despite having made the common cartrigde, The Swedish army wanted the Mauser and the Norwegian army wanted the Krag-Jørgensen rifle (the union was not a close one).
The "6,5 Swedish" is, though widely used, not the correct name of the cartrigde. The name is simply 6,5x55