Assuming New Zealand and Australia are fully open in 2023 I’m planning on bringing my family there. None of us have ever been and it’s kind of an ultimate family vacation for all of us. Plan right now is one week on the South Island, one week on the north island and 2 weeks in Australia. All of that can be modified if anyone has a strong opinion one way or the other? 2 objectives that have to be met on the trip. Number one is to hunt tahr. I have been planning on doing this DIY on the South Island but would like to hear everyone’s opinions as to if that is truly doable or not? Would like to see the islands using the camper vans and hunt from them as well.



Second is to see some of the Hobbit/lord of the rings stuff. What do you all recommend?


Any other places I should really see with the family? If not DIY any outfitter that would be recommended for the tahr(preferably backpacking, not helicopter)? Thanks so much for all the help

I worked at the US Embassy in Canberra, Australia for 3 years.

I'd go in the Southern Hemisphere winter. Sometime between May and September. This will cut down on the heat in Australia and snakes. Though in many places that are tropical it won't matter.

I was active duty military then and didn't have a ton of money but these are the things I would do in Australia. That I either did or wanted to do.

Top 10: Not in any particular order.
1. Fly to Sydney and spend 2-3 days doing the tourst crap. Sydney Zoo, Opera house, Sydney Harbor, Blue Mountains Tram. Even if you don't do the zoo, do the tram. If you are an American go to the American consulate in Sydney and act like you have official business and want to ask a question. Go up the elevator to the floor the Consulate is on and look out the window. It is nuts how beautiful Sydney is from that window. Do not park in their building it cost about $100 an hour.

2. Canberra. Love Canberra great town, and the Australian versions of what we would call the Smithsonian's are there. They are ok, but Canberra is not super exciting as a tourism destination. It is called the Bush Capitol for a reason. Zoo there is nice, lots of interesting museums but .....eh? Canberra is a 1 day destination. Do the big tower, couple museums that's really it. There is a giant concrete Merino sheep in Golburn on the side of the road between Canberra and Sydney. There is a McDonalds next to it, and it makes a good break spot.

3. Melbore. I am not a city person, I personally don't care for Melbourne. The city park is really nice, some great museums and the single biggest reason to go down there the penguins coming in at night. We did this it was really cool.

4. Ghan. The Ghan is a luxury train that goes between Adelaide and Darwin. It's about $2300 a person for the entire trip, and $1500 from Adelaide to Alice Springs. If you have the time it is supposed to be really cool. Was outside the perameters of my enlisted budget at the time.

5. Kakadu (near Darwin) is a big national park full of crocodiles, Japanese tourist, and wildlife. Didn't do this one either.

6. Cairns, Daintree and Great Barrier Reef. We did do this. There are super expensive ways to do it and cheaper versions. We flew from Canberra to Cairns, stayed in a Australian military pensioner resort and rented a cheap car. We went to the crocodile farms, bird parks, Daintree and Great Barrier reef and had a couple of really good meals in Cairns. Never saw a wild cassowary, but we did see bush turkeys. There are a lot of things around Cairns (Aboriginal cultural centre, trams, croc farms, barramundi fishing). The reef is ok, I have dove in the Red Sea and I thought it was better diving. You can snorkel at the reef (not the true reef, but who cares) from Cairns. It takes several 2-3 hours to get out to the reef from Cairns and the ride is pretty rough. You can also helicopter out if you want to pay for it. We fed a grouper that was as big as a VW bug. There are other places in Far North Queensland that are good tourist places.

8. Ayer's Rock. Never did it, Aboriginals are just as pissy as American indians about taking advantage of a situation in order to make a buck. The Grand Canyon in Arizona is a perfect example of this. It could be an expensive add on, just to see a big as rock. Not sure of the value, but it is pretty and I am sure you will see a lot of Kangaroos (hint, there are millions of Kangaroos in Australia you will see them).

9. Rent an RV in Cairns and drive it to Darwin or Alice Springs. There are a million camp grounds along the way, it would give you a good opportunity to see a lot of Australia. Australian Road Trips are epic.

10. Coastal and Interior Australia. There is a lot of land there. It is the same size as the continental USA. If you don't understand this, most of the sights on my list are a 2-3 day drive apart from one another if not 4-5. I never saw a part of Australian (except Melbourne and Sydney) that didn't love.

Some thoughts:

1. Australia is pretty expensive, it was really expensive when I was there. Look at exchange rates. But then get on Australian gas, supermarket and fast food websites and see what things cost. A day in Australia will be equal to the cost of a day in any tourist trap in America.

2. Driving on the other side of the vehicle and road takes some fore thought. There will be times where you screw it up and end up going the wrong way. Relax and calm down and it will work out. Don't get over excited and try to correct things or get agressive. Australians use their turn signals. Try to watch an Australian driving safety video on youtube to see what kind of things are expected.

3. Even with 30 million people and tons of land, parking is the most bullshit expense you will ever see. It generally cost to park in most places in Australia.

4. There are tons of traffic cameras, and not too many traffic cops. On that same note, there are tons of drunk driving stops.

5. SWAG is stupid expensive. I remember buying a baseball cap that helped fund a search and rescue program in the bush and it being $50 USD after the exchange rate. I had comitted prior to knowing the exchange rate. Tshirts are generally $40-50 USD.

6. Food is really good, try; meat pies, kangaroo and crocodile meats, fresh fruits, supermarkets are well stocked and Australian goods are high quality. I reckon they either have the best or 2nd best grocery stores in the world after the French.

7. Beer and Booze is blinking expensive in the Bar and in the store. Lots of good ones to try. My favorite used to be some of the regional ales in New South Wales.

8. Australian men and boys will often go barefoot and shirtless in public establishments. Not sure why this is a thing.

9. Australia is wonderful, I enjoyed my time there. There is a false sense of safety that exist there especially with children. For the most part it is very rare to hear of a child abduction. Women do get harassed, and sometimes worse. There are a few murders, but it is generally really safe.

10. With the size of Australia, I would probably concentrate on one region. Unless you are going to do a lot of internal flying. It depends on what you are into, but I would either pick the Cairns, Daintree, Great Barrier Reef option and spend a day in Brisbane at the Australia zoo. Or I would go to Darwin, Kakadu and then either take a bus, or TV to Darwin and if you need to Ayers rock.

To hunt Thar DIY, you will probably need a week just for that. Public land anyway.
Dont be scared use a helicopter to access the mountains. Just dont get convinced or bullied into using one to hunt the Tahr.
I would usually give you some advice on where you could go for a DIY hunt, but there was a big cull recently and I have not been back to see how it affected the areas I hunt, so dont want to send you somewhere that may now be low on animals.
also NZ is bigger than most people think, and a week in south and week in north means you will spend alot of your trip in a car. Maybe as much as 3 days per island lost to travel.
Just some things worth thinking about.

BWW gave you a pretty good run down mate. Not much I can add to it really. Yep things are expensive here. Its normal for us but can be hard for you yanks, especially booze. Clothing is expensive to buy at the tourist traps but if you need replacement clothing, we do have budget store that are cheap. One thing that BWW forgot to add about Canberra is the Australian War Memorial.

Overall mate BWW's summery is pretty spot on.

As Shankspony has said NZ is a bigger country that people often don't appreciate. It is a 'long' country with a sea crossing between the North and South Island, albeit the Cook Strait crossing is relatively short but a good half day is involved in the crossing trip with loading and unloading vehicles etc.
NZ is about as long in length of country as England and our roading system is not as well developed with large motorways as in England. If you drive off the main state highway system here travel times are slower. After the large earthquakes we have had in the last decade in the South Island there are quite a lot of roadworks in progress to repair and upgrade our roading systems and many areas on some the state highways involved have had the speed limit lowered.

You will hardly see much if only allowing two weeks to travel through NZ especially if wanting to hunt tahr and see some of the areas where Lord of the Rings movies were shot.

Winter is really the time to hunt tahr as this is where the bulls are at their most majestic as far as their distinctive coat is concerned. Unlike chamois which can be found in the lower reaches of rivers and streams, sometimes quite handy to the road, tahr only live in the upper alpine areas which in winter are a real challenge to hunt. For the inexperienced or even the experienced, hunting in winter in our Southern Alps tahr areas can be very dangerous.

A DIY single person hunt for tahr would likely end in disaster for an overseas hunter. During the winter months of May, June and July our chopper guys are very busy flying tahr hunters in and out of the DOC balloted tahr blocks (weeks hunt for maximum 6 hunters who won a ballot block and only tent camping available) and other hunters into the open hunting areas where there are DOC huts to hunt from or parties will be tenting.
You would need to allow more than just a few days for this sort of hunt.


I would strongly suggest using an outfitter and a chopper will definitely be involved for transport in and out of an area on the West Coast side of the Island and quite possibly the same on the East Coast side unless hunting on a closed farm or station where there maybe road access.

Myself, three of my sons and a couple of their mates are heading into a real knarly balloted block to hunt tahr for a week in early July. I have been in this block once before, no sun gets to the campsite, my nephew got frostbite in a toe and I was sure glad to sea the chopper when we got lifted back out after a week of misery. We got bulls but it was hard and dangerous work.

For Lord of the Rings scenery and places where some of the spectacular outdoor scenes were shot I would recommend the guided trip up to the Ashburton Lakes area (leaves from Christchurch or Methven). Can self drive up there too. Advertised online.

Hope I haven't dampened your ardor for a trip to NZ just making sure you have some understanding of the distances involved for road travel and also the challenges for hunting tahr.

Maybe this will help, who needs a lion when you can get a mane as good as this!

If you have hunted NZ before, specifically the South Island, you might already have some idea of how doable a self-guided Tahr hunt would be. Hunting from a camper van base...? Yes, possible, I've done it but you need good knowledge of the chosen hunting area in respect of potential animal numbers. Generally opportunities should be much better if you hike into a good valley with a good hut and base yourself there. I'm guessing your family doesn't necessarily hunt so that would free up the camper van for their use while you hit the hills. I think planning 7 days to hunt Tahr is sensible as it includes an allowance for crap weather. You can always come out earlier if you score early on. If you lack Tahr hunting experience I recommend a May hunt. June / July are OK for experienced hunters who are used to potential weather related setbacks. The bulls will have pretty good Winter capes by May.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
BWW gave you a pretty good run down mate. Not much I can add to it really. Yep things are expensive here. Its normal for us but can be hard for you yanks, especially booze. Clothing is expensive to buy at the tourist traps but if you need replacement clothing, we do have budget store that are cheap. One thing that BWW forgot to add about Canberra is the Australian War Memorial.

Overall mate BWW's summery is pretty spot on.

Thanks Mate,

You know I wish we would have had the opportunity for a beer when I was in Canberra.

I didn't include the War Memorial on purpose, I thought about it, and I appreciate it. I'd worry to direct another American who either didn't serve or may not have the appreciation. Served with Diggers in Afghanistan, did what I could when I was at the Embassy to ensure that American to Australian war medals and request were as quick as they could be. Including several Diggers that were Spec Ops guys that gave the ultimate sacrifice. I wish I could remember the guy's name. But he had really uncommon valor as an SF guy, and we gave him a Army Commendation medal after he was killed by a IED. I campaigned to raise it, but I don't think I got anywhere.

Your nation's team helped me open the door to American defense forces travelling to Australia. As much as I loved it, I wouldn't send someone who may not respect the Memorial (if that makes sense)?

Spent three dawn services on ANZAC morning at the War Memorial, and every family member that visited Australia was taken there. The museum is special. It holds the tomb of an Australian unknown soldier. If you go, much like Arlington's own tomb please respect that.

Ok, late edit. Just found the War Memorial had all their information.

[url=https://www.awm.gov.au/

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful replies. Hunting will be the priority in the beginning and I really won’t do anything else until I’m successful in that. I’m open to an outfitter if that is the only really smart way to do it. I’m perfectly comfortable backpacking and living out of a tent for the hunt. Any recommendations? Also it’s looking like the general consensus is to spend at least 3 weeks (possibly the whole month) in New Zealand and just make a return trip for Australia at some later point in life. I’m definitely okay with that as New Zealand is my priority far an away above Australia for right now.

Once again I really appreciate all the help and insight!

l do some research for you. By any chance can you let us know your age and fitness etc. Im thinking that if your priority is the hunt to that extent, then a really good option might be to introduce yourself on the NZ hunting and shooting forum, and ask if there is a kiwi interested in doing a hunt with you. id take you myself but I have a year or two of other commitments.
There are some really good keen buggers who would include you on a trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
BWW gave you a pretty good run down mate. Not much I can add to it really. Yep things are expensive here. Its normal for us but can be hard for you yanks, especially booze. Clothing is expensive to buy at the tourist traps but if you need replacement clothing, we do have budget store that are cheap. One thing that BWW forgot to add about Canberra is the Australian War Memorial.

Overall mate BWW's summery is pretty spot on.

Thanks Mate,

You know I wish we would have had the opportunity for a beer when I was in Canberra.

I didn't include the War Memorial on purpose, I thought about it, and I appreciate it. I'd worry to direct another American who either didn't serve or may not have the appreciation. Served with Diggers in Afghanistan, did what I could when I was at the Embassy to ensure that American to Australian war medals and request were as quick as they could be. Including several Diggers that were Spec Ops guys that gave the ultimate sacrifice. I wish I could remember the guy's name. But he had really uncommon valor as an SF guy, and we gave him a Army Commendation medal after he was killed by a IED. I campaigned to raise it, but I don't think I got anywhere.

Your nation's team helped me open the door to American defense forces travelling to Australia. As much as I loved it, I wouldn't send someone who may not respect the Memorial (if that makes sense)?

Spent three dawn services on ANZAC morning at the War Memorial, and every family member that visited Australia was taken there. The museum is special. It holds the tomb of an Australian unknown soldier. If you go, much like Arlington's own tomb please respect that.

Ok, late edit. Just found the War Memorial had all their information.

[url=https://www.awm.gov.au/

All good mate. Even if people don't have a connection to the military its the kind of place that will give you a good appreciation of the Services.

Leaf Hunter if you're down in Victoria I'd be happy to take you out on the boat.

I’m 38, do CrossFit and Install tile floors and tile showers for a living so I feel I’m in decent shape. I do at least one solo backpacking hunt every other fall as well. Still have a lot to learn and experience!

Plan is to go in June since that is when my wife and children will be out of school.


I found the New Zealand hunting forum and will be joining!

And thanks for the offer on the boat!

Let us know how you get on with the forum.
June is getting really icy and cold. East coast would probably be better that time of year as west can just be plain miserable. Its hard to explain when the temperature does not look that low to northern hemisphere hunters, how much a difference having snow and also wetness makes.
There is a good chance you will be wet, and cold. But if you get the right weather, it can also be amazing.

I have heard it said that 3000ft in NZ our snowline above which is just small alpine grasses and plants, is equivalent in climate to 10000ft in the Himalayas.

Our Tahr, especially the big bulls, generally like areas up around 5000ft hence hunting is best after a big snowfall in winter that will push these animals down to the lower levels where hunters have a better chance of getting a shot at them.

The photo I posted above is of my youngest son who shot the bull well up on a rock face, the photo is taken where the bull ended up falling to, in the scrub at the base of the cliff. This is a shot through binoculars of either that particular bull tahr or one my second son shot in the same area.
The boys were shooting at long range with their 7mm-08's across the bush seen lower down in the foreground. That's their set up for shooting to those bluffs.

Country doesn't look too rugged but is a different story when snow is down.

I just joined the other forum, definitely looks like a place with lots of information.

Really nice photos eagle! Country looks stunning, probably worth the effort getting there even if you don’t kill anything

The place in the photos is one of the best balloted blocks and I've been lucky enough to win a ballot for this block for four years, not consecutively mind you. Most all the balloted blocks are only accessible via at least 3 day walk ins, many without tracks and would be a hell of a walk. The ballots allow you to use a chopper for access in and out, only time of year choppers are allowed to fly into these blocks.
Although any other hunters can walk into the blocks under the ballot system you have the block exclusively for a week, no one else is allowed to fly in.

Once in the blocks the hunting can be relatively easy, I'm now 70yo and can still get around hunting in these areas albeit I have spent a lot of my life roughing it in this type of country. My three boys are like tahr themselves, able to move and climb a lot faster and safer than I can now.

Anyone hunting from huts or campsites in non-balloted areas face the same sort of country to have to hunt in.

Last year a father and son who we actually met in the pub the night before before we flew in to our respective blocks, climbed themselves to a dead end and couldn't safely climb back down so set off their PLB (we all carry these) and had to be winched out by a rescue chopper. They had such a scare they packed up their camp and called for the chopper to take them back out. That was with good weather, they were just over in a block from us (over the range you can see in the background of the last photo I posted earlier.

Normally the chopper pilots won't take you into hunting areas if there is a storm brewing as they know what is likely to happen to tent sites and then they may be unable to fly to retrieve you until the weather clears.

Some photos below of a trip into the block I won for this year and were we are going into for a week in July. Same one I mentioned earlier where we had a terrible snow storm, no sun for the week and nephew got a frost bitten toe.

Campsite setup on arrival, before snow storm.


Snow storm in progress second night after arrival, very strong winds and bitingly wet cold.


Campsite after snow storm, second night in.


Looking up into the hunting area, ice axe and crampons needed if climbing much, very icy conditions.


Looking back down river from camp, chopper base on other side of range seen in background, never going to walk in or out, chamois seen on the snow covered slips everyday.


A zoom in from camp on country up river where tahr were hanging out every day, very experienced 70yo Alaskan hunter we had with us shot one bull up there (shooting from the river 400m up stream from camp), took fittest member of our party all day climbing with axe and crampons to retrieve the bull.


Alaskan did the shooting but not the retrieve.


Nephew back in after a day out in snow, got good bull and frostbitten toe, at least he was smiling about it.


Lucky him to be in sun for a wee while.


Me glassing for tahr from camp, trying to stay warm, f..k it was cold.


Setting up for Alaskan's first shot at a bull tahr from our campsite using NZ friends 300WM with 165gr SST and dial up Nightforce scope, just on 400m shot, nephew and friend climbed up to retrieve the animal.


Bull was just off the skyline centre image - zoomed view.


Welcome sight, chopper arriving for first lift out, that's as close as sun ever got to camp. I vowed never again to go into that block but here I am returning in July.

Left hunter, I think you will have got the message by now that Thar country in winter on your own is not a great idea. You are going to NZ to enjoy yourself and you have a family to consider. Find experienced Kiwis to go with or hire a guide and don't underestimate how long you could be stuck up there on your own, freezing your butt off, wishing you had stayed with your nice warm little wife.
The coldest I've ever been was hunting Thar in July.
We get lots of visitors to NZ intent on travelling around in a camper. An ordinary rental car and staying in motels is generally much cheaper and more comfortable when you add up all the costs. A car costs much less to rent and run and can be parked anywhere not just in a camp ground miles out of the centre of town. Also a car won't piss off Kiwi drivers as much as a huge white maggot humping along a back-country road where there is nowhere to pass. Watch out for Kiwi cops who park at the end of long empty stretches of South island roads waiting for some hapless tourist to go a few km over the speed limit.

Thanks and I understand the being warm thing is nice but it adds little to the adventure in life. I have spent 10 days Huntin from horseback and living in a single wall backpacking tent at 14,000 feet in Kyrgyzstan hunting mid Asian ibex in late October and can’t imagine it’s much colder than that!

Once again I appreciate everyone’s honest input

So have I- the Krygiz example is a good one.

Its twice as cold as what you will get in NZ. But you will never feel as cold as what you will here in the wrong conditions, and those wrong conditions will come unless you are very lucky.
The difficulty is staying dry in a cold wet environment. and June is starting into the wet time of year. Even our snow is a wetter form.
Wet in NZ is a killer! even lighting a fire is a near impossibility.
Really good gear helps, and good practices. Keep your camp clothes dry at all costs and do not be tempted to wear them because its unpleasant putting on your hunting clothes in the morning.
Dont let moisture into your tent. make sure you finish the day with a big warm meal and hot drink.
As I said, east coast is better. Drier, more open and less wet scrub to hunt through. But you will likely be hunting at higher altitude and more chance of heavier snows.
Ive taken quite a few guys from the northern hemisphere hunting and tell them exactly what Im telling you, and I understand how hard it is to comprehend, as you just have nothing to compare with. The guys who are unlucky and get hit by the wrong weather with me have genuinely been frightened and or miserable.
Im not trying to put you off, as you sound like a person of similar mindset too me and loves adventure. So please dont feel like im being a real negative. Its just at that time of year it can be very tough if you are not prepared.

The snowed in campsite in the photos above is at an altitude of just under 3,500 feet.

I spent a year in West Germany and some of it's neighbouring countries, including the Alp areas, hunting and skiing. Once I sat up overnight in snow and -30 degree temperatures waiting on a fox to come to a dead frozen Reh deer carcass. Nowhere in Europe did I experience cold as I have here in our NZ Alps. There is a huge difference between dry cold and snow as in Europe and probably North America and that which you will find here. NZ is quite close to Antarctica and that is where our snow storms blow up from.

When we arrived in to our campsite pre snow storm the Alaskan guy did say that "he thought he was out of his league here". That was just the roughness of the country before we got the snow, then after the first night of strong wind, rain and some snow he stepped out of his tent in denim jeans. Our hearts skipped a beat as we thought that if that is all he had to hunt in he would never leave camp. He did have some polar fleece trousers which he quickly went and put on.

Like Shanks I don't want to appear negative just want to give you a picture of what tahr hunting here can involve.
I will be applying for a ballot block again in October for 2023 and if I am successful, especially with my favourite block, I would offer you a place in on the trip.
I don't know what you are like but I'm sure you would enjoy hunting with us. We have no airs and graces in our camp, just good fun and companionship enjoying a few beers and a whisky or two at the end of each hunting day. Last year we saw heaps of bull tahr and got some good animals and in other years in this particular block we have always got animals, so you would be pretty sure of getting a shot at a few.

Would you bring your own gun to NZ for tahr hunting? What do you use?
My sons and I all use 7mm-08's which work fine enough although I have recently purchased a 7mm WSM, my sons think we need something with a bit more reach and grunt, especially if we can do dial up with a good scope and range finder.

I don’t feel anyone is being negative and appreciate the honesty. Obviously I have never been there I can’t really know what I’m getting into regardless of my experience elsewhere. It’s one of the things I love about new places, the unknown and excitement and anticipation of what it will be like.
Keep me posted about the block option for next year! I would hate to impose butt…

I’m also actively looking for an outfitter now just to see what my options are there for my first trip over (kinda getting the feeling this won’t be my last based on all of your feedback!). Trying to find someone that does it mostly on foot.

Thanks again for all your time and honesty.

For an outfitter, Joseph Peter springs to mind.
He offers much of what I think you are after.
This is his website.

https://hardyardshunting.co.nz

quote:

Originally posted by Left hunter:
I don’t feel anyone is being negative and appreciate the honesty. Obviously I have never been there I can’t really know what I’m getting into regardless of my experience elsewhere. It’s one of the things I love about new places, the unknown and excitement and anticipation of what it will be like.
Keep me posted about the block option for next year! I would hate to impose butt…

I’m also actively looking for an outfitter now just to see what my options are there for my first trip over (kinda getting the feeling this won’t be my last based on all of your feedback!). Trying to find someone that does it mostly on foot.

Thanks again for all your time and honesty.

Would not be an imposition, this year we have six on our trip (the maximum number you are permitted into a block) but last year was just me and my three boys so would have room for another if same next year.
Of course I have to be lucky in the ballot but will know the details by early November this year, so time to plan ahead for the trip in June/July. I plan these months as there will have been some snow by then to drive the big bulls down to lower reaches although in saying this I have still seen them sitting in the sun on the highest mountain pinnacle after a big snow storm.

You would really enjoy a weeks hunting in one of these balloted block areas, just watching the tahr move about in this harsh environment gives me a real kick. I shudder at times watching them negotiate wet and icy sheer rockfaces expecting to see a slip at any time but they just mooch around completely at home.