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It might just be me but that is one very ordinary looking rifle. I know they are a really quality piece. Just looks ordinary. And I guess I have never liked the look of bull pup style rifles anyway. Including the one our armed forces has. Should have opted for a version of the M 16. John Howard's fault. | ||
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Have you ever used an AUG Greybeard?? if not you don't know what your missing, I've used both ,the steyr shits all over the m16 for reliability especially in dirty conditions and it's also better balanced with the mag between your shoulder and your right hand(or left hand if your kaky handed). Full auto with the steyr is lotsa fun and very controlable. It's mercy, compassion and forgiveness I lack; not rationality. | |||
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I handled a Scout(.223-friend of a friend),I quite liked it...bit pricey tho.It was handy with the bipod etc. Regards,Shaun. Kids in the back seat cause accidents,accidents in the back seat cause kids. | |||
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DM, only people who have never handled a quality battle rifle could call the Austeyr a good piece of kit. It is, in fact well designed, but poorly made piece of crap. I agree, the M16 series are a poor choice for numerous reasons, but the Austeyr is much worse. the only people I've run into on Ops who have had it worse than us were the Poms, with their POS L85. The M16/M4 series do have a following in SF circles, due to the fact they are #1 lightweight, #2 look cool, #3 you can all kinds of Gucci kit off them, #4 they are reasonably reliable (most of the stoppages can be traced to the magazines). The sad fact is, that the bad guys, armed with SKS's and Indon F1's were far better equipped than we were. The guys in the sandbox? Dunno, you'll have to ask them. The AK series is reknowed for reliable functioning in adverse conditions. Don't get me wrong, the original AUG is a very good piece of kit, just the Lithgow version sucks. The principle problem is fragility, of the sight and most often, the cocking handle. I broke 4 cocking handles in EM, not through rough handling, but through the inane drill that requires the F88 to be placed safety up (and cocking handle down). I pulled one cocking handle clean off during a contact (not a very comfortable state of affairs, let me tell you!). Yet the problem persists. "It's too hard to make a folding cocking handle!" we are told! Fuck off, the SLR had one for it's whole service life. The fucking BREN had one, and that was designed in the 20's! I think that perhaps part of the problem might be that in order to fix the glitches (many, many RODUM's submitted!), it would be neccesary for highly placed arseholes to admit there is a problem. Which, of course, would look bad. BTW, full auto? Doesn't hit jack shit, and wastes ammo that you have had to carry for miles up and down mountains. Only hits count, and they are best achived by aimed shots. Unit SOPs? Single shot selector button, out at all times, unless otherwise directed. JMHO Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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I've used the M16/Car15, Steyr AUG, etc operationally. Your armed services did the right thing. The Steyr pisses all over most of the competition (including the M16/CAR/Armalites). | |||
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Dave, I never used the steyr or the m16 anyplace except the shooting range, BUT Talking to the blokes who use them profesionally and who prefere them over the current crop of available artillery, and the fact that they are reissuing the old m14 in Iraq because of reliability problems with the m16 speaks volumes to me. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, it could stand some improvements and the new model goes some way to doing that, I disagree that Australia should have opted for a version of the m16 as Greybeard stated in his original post. I found the full auto feature on the AUG to be pretty nifty and controlable in short bursts which I think is was what it was designed for. cheers Pete It's mercy, compassion and forgiveness I lack; not rationality. | |||
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My understanding is that the problem is primarily with the ammo and not the guns - the M14 is chambered for the 7.62 Nato which is far superior to the 5.56 for taking out bad guys at the ranges they are encountering them at. "White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell) www.cybersafaris.com.au | |||
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DM, You are right, the idea of the full-auto option is for controlled bursts, but on a two-way range, somehow the fine motor skills you (read we) had seem to disappear in a flash. With the current crop of jobs floating around, stray rounds flying downrange are not a good way to win friends and influence people. Remember, only hits count. Doubtless, for the SF types on Ops at the moment, it will be business as usual, but I cannot help but feel the average Digger might be better served by something a little more robust. Example: my driver in EM buttstroked a militiaman with her F88, and ended up with her carbine in several bits. I still feel the original Steyr design is good, the F88 just needs more work to clear up the bugs, and the people responsible to admit the problems exist. All the modern (post 80's) crop of assault rifles are essentially the same, selective fire, and firing (mostly) smaller cartridges, so there wasn't all that much to choose from (I am no real fan of the AR15 series myself, I consider them to be a bit delicate), unless they wanted to go the whole hog and start from scratch with a new design. I honestly don't see how we could have done much better, design wise (maybe the Galil, but that rifle is much heavier!), but the quality of manufacture of the F88 could sure use improving. Unless the whole gas plug flying downrange thing is just a way of increasing the weight of fire on the enemy. Work the bugs out, and then the guys will have something they can really count on. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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Sorry guys, previous post should read 'Indon S1 not F1, the S1 being the licence made version of the FN CAL. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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I think you'll find it's a bit of both Bob. It's mercy, compassion and forgiveness I lack; not rationality. | |||
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I haven't shot an M16 or the Sig Steyr so i cannot comment on them from a hands on point of view. My main point that the Steyr Scout hunting rifle would be good but I don't reckon it looks too good compared to many current bolt action hunting rifles. I have shot a few semi auto centre fires we once had. The M! carbine was fun, the Norinco copy of the M14 was good fun and shot well and was FAR cheaper new than a used M14, a mate's Valmet 308 was very nice as was his AR 15. Another bloke here owned a Swedish Jungman (cannot remember the spelling) and wasted a fair heap of ammo shooting targets in a local quarry. Cannot ever remember shooting a commercial semi auto centrefire. the comments by the blokes who obviously know what they are talking about above were very interesting. Thanks. My ignorance is showing: "EM" is....? | |||
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GBB, EM is the UN code for East Timor. The reason for EM and not ET, is that ET is already used for another country. The Steyr Scout rifle is a good piece of kit, provided you can get used to the forward mounted scope. If you do not want a forward mounted scope, then there are many rifles just as good and far cheaper. I personally do not care for the forward scope mount set-up, I use a Trijicon Reflex sight (6.5 MOA dot) on mine, it seem to work OK. Not the kind of set-up for plinking at rabbits, but very, very good for deer in thick scrub, and accurate enough to put rounds on target out to 250M or so (then you start to lose the target in the dot), not a long range outfit by any means. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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Hi Chaps. I actually own a Steyr Scout and I'll tll you why. Its so light! It weighs 6.2 pounds bare. The stock is extremely comfortable and ergonomic and it stores an extra mag, which is supplied with the gun. I bought mine in .308. Recoil is no worse than my Tikka Master Sporter in 6.5x55. If you look the rifle over, it screams "quality". I ditched the "scout" forward mounted scope and put a Burris 1.75-6x40 scope in the conventional position. The rifle has a full length weaver rail so the mount was easy. With the scope mounted and bore sighted in the shop I took it up to Silverdale and proceeded to shoot a sub 1" group about 1 MOA away from the bull at 50m. I zeroed it and shot a sub 1" 5 shot group at 100m then went and shot about 3 to 4" group at 200 with a crosswind. I could shoot and CARRY this gun all day. My Tikka has a superb Walnut stock and I admire it every time I get it out of the safe. Synthetic guns lack that "life" they're more like a shifting spanner than guitar if you catch my drift. Anyway I purchased the Steyer as my primary hunting rig and it performs this duty perfectly. I'd reccomend the Scout to anyone who wants a quality, purposeful rifle. A "safe queen" she ain't!! | |||
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To a doggies point of view. Give me a rifle that doesn't have all the handles, sights and crap hanging off it. It was a constant battle in Timor to un-tangle my dog lead (very active dog and a 9 ft lead  ) I carried a standard barrel version of the AUSTEYR then but doggies now get issued a carbine version...still has the bloody handles and crap on it  The kiwi huey pilots had an even shorter version. The flash hider came straight out of the front handle and that did not fold up. Very cool lookin!The solution? I have no idea!  ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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It only took forty years, but the latest iterations of the M-16 family are reliable. The M-4 is not the latest iteration. Not a total POS, but a semi-POS. My youngest is in the ashtray right now. I built him a new upper and sent it in a care package. I built it simple, robust, reliable and accurate. With the new 77 grain light sniper round it does good work. He has been busy. He took off the collapsible stock (too fragile) and put on an M-16 A1 (Vietnam era) short and fixed length stock. His SOP semi. He has been through quite a few contacts and just leaves it on semi. I put a 16" barrel with a mid-length gas tube on it. Good for all-around work out to 300 meters. The M-14s are fine if you are on foot, but not at all handy in a vehicle or for CQB. I had my choice of a lot of weapons to use in my youth (even the BAR; heavy, but wonderful). The M-14 is great for iron sight use, but a goat fuck with a scope. I only fired familiarization with the AUG a few times. Handy, but it seemed a bit delicate. Anyways, back to the question at hand. I have a Steyr Scout in 308. Beauty is as beauty does, and it does. Light, strong and accurate. Forget about the bipod though. It is too delicate. Use it with the Ching Sling. I'll bring mine when I come over for a cull hunt. Those ten round magazines should be just the ticket for donkey time.  | |||
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Iused the scout concept designed by Colonel Jeff Cooper very handy and accurate but you cannot use the scout scope in dark ligth situations ,i used the steyr aug in the army and is a real good rifle altgouh i dont like another bullpups like the sa80 or the famas ,the m4 concept is good too ,but on combat rifles i prefer a short fal commando .Juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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