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gents is it just me or have we passed a peak of custom bigbore interest in australia. Seemed 10-20 years ago you could pick and choose from good smiths to do anything from worker level to high grade custom jobs, now they are pretty thin on the ground. We used to have guys who could build royal grade doubles, flawlessly functioning but 'Affordable' custom bigbores( eg under 4K total), crazy wildcats like 50BMG necked up to 60-70cal, and at least two barrel making companies handling 577 and 600cal. Names like A.Swann, Mark White, Saunders, Blatnick, Jongmans, Beer, Geoof slee, Peter ( forget his last name but was australia's version of CH4D custom die making master) , How many of these gents are still kicking/working and has anyone replaced their niche? There are still a big name or two left, either scooping up all the work but charging high grade fees(eg 8-10k completed rifle territory) or some putting out work that to be blunt is a bit worrying. QLD in particular there has been some problems even for regular calibre smithing being done, according to the gunstores I have talked to. Having come back to australia after a few years I find I am scratching around trying to find gunshop owners or part timers just to do a simple job like a bigbore rebarell on a CZ action. maybe all the easy factory options in stuff like 416rigby and 505 gibbs has put our culture of good custom blokes out of business? Or cost of living/gun laws shutting them down?? | ||
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There was a guy - Bob someone ? - in Melbourne that was a bit of an African calibre guy. Went to his shop once with one of the Aussie guys but that was probably 5 years ago now . ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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I use one guy in Sydney who is a master but darn slow. | |||
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I think you will find there are quite a lot of quality guys around but they are in such demand that they dont advertise. I am lucky, in my local area (Armidale NSW) we have Tony Small who does some very nice basic work. He can turn is hand to any job, metal or wood and the work is always good quality. He only started chequering timber a while back but I looked at his first few jobs and I could not fault it. Dont you hate talented people like that!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Alex Beer still seems to be working in Tasmania. I think I knew the Peter you mention but can't think of his surname just now. He lived in SE Melbourne and moved to NE Victoria towards the end of his career - but I think he's gone for a Burton now. (tried to find his name but search engines forget ordinary mortals quick once we leave the building, it seems.) I think John Saunders still has a shop Whitehorse Road, Balwyn, but suspect he might just trade in double rifles these days: http://www.centuryarms.com.au/ I don't know that he makes db rifles, but Kevin Sharp at Coldstream (ph (03) 9739 1068) is a good man in regard to shotgun repair. Just don't tell him you're not in a hurry | |||
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Alex Beer has pulled in his shingle and stopped taking any work. He did excellent work but there wasn't enough to keep him busy. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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That would be Bob DeVries, of Kudu Services in Montrose, Vic. Still going strong, and doing good work.
Allan Swan is still going in Brissie, and making barrels now too, if that's who you mean. John Saunders is still trading as Century Arms in Balwyn, but not doing smithing/builds - he has a website. Blatnick? Do you mean Rolf Bachnick, ex-Century Arms? If so, he now trades as Safari Arms in Lilydale, Vic. Alex Beer has had to pull the pin on gunsmithing for the time being, close his business, and take a maintenance fitter job. Custom work wasn't paying the bills well enough, unfortunately. He posted an announcement on the NitroExpress.com forums, if anyone wants to look it up. John Jongmans ended up shifting back to NZ years ago; dunno if he's still active there. Geoff Slee closed down his business and sold off the equipment in 2011, not long before he died. Gordon Cusens from Tas bought the core equipment and patterns. Peter Davern of Edithvale retired when he moved to Sea Lake, IIRC. No phone listing for that name there, so I guess he's gone, or at least not living independently.
The biggest problem as I see it, is that it isn't a recognised trade, and hasn't been in Vic for something over 25 years now. Kevin Sharp would have been one of the last to qualify as a tradesman gunsmith. There has been the usual attrition due to retirements since then, naturally. The costs involved in licensing make it uneconomic to 'partially retire' for very long; one of our smiths down my way did that for a couple of years, and went from working between hunting trips, to taking on work only through a couple of selected dealers. Then gave up his dealer licence and fully retired, well into his 70's. The police Licensing Section watch retired smiths very closely, and really prefer them to sell off all of their gear, too. So doing a few 'cashies' just isn't worth the risk. And the remaining true artisans are too busy scratching a living to take on the burden of an apprentice. So the only new blood in the trade is a few blokes who qualified as fitter/turners or toolmakers [usually] who start doing a bit of part time smithing. It's damn near impossible to make an hourly rate that comes near what a tradie can make in industries like mining, though. Cheers, Doug | |||
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Very informative posts all. Thanks for the heads up by name gadge. Interesting to hear what happened to the names I used to bug hell out of on the phone in the pre-internet days what seems to be missing and fits in with Gadges explanation of affairs, is the new up and coming guy who would take on amazing new projects and do it cheaply. Some of the names still operating are the ones charging 8-10k for a gun.Good for them of course, but still feel there is a 5k level of gun someone should be building(for me lol). Thanks for the memory Jog on Peter Davern, reports I have gathered said he was very sick quite a while back, so I expect he may have joined the honor role by now also.. | |||
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Yes, Peter Davern was the name I was trying to remember. I'd googled 'gunsmith Edithvale' and got no result - the Internet is great while you're a going concern or a name about whom others write. | |||
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Can highly recommend Bob DeVries metal work. No BS and knows his guns. Has built 2 for me and they are all i could have expected and more. Ross Waghorn did the stocks. Beautiful guns that shoot great. Best Steve | |||
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Rob Blomfield of Sunshine Coast Gunsmithing seems to knock out a few big bores. http://www.scgunsmith.com.au/ | |||
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Gordon Cusens in Tasmania does work of the finest quality. But that attention to detail comes at a price. I can't actually figure out how he does such amazing work for what he charges. IMO he should be charging more (Gordon, if you are reading this... ignore it!) | |||
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Gordon is a member here ya know bondy, under his Juglansregia handle [also used at AHN]. Cheers, Doug | |||
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I have not met any of these people. But Gordon Cusens is a great guy. he read my Mannlicher Schoenauer restock project and wrote to me giving me great advise and encouragement and continued to help. Very knowledgable and supportive. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Yeah... that's why I told him to ignore it! | |||
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The above are great guys but again you are into the 8-10K category. That cost would have got you a matched pair of guns in 500 Jeffery and 375H&H 10-12 years ago from many of our smiths- back when our dollar was barely 50c to world currencies as well. The yanks are still building ultrabores for 5-6K so my general feeling is yep great work done by our guys but I just can't stomach the price. | |||
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When looking at price, one needs to look at how many hours it takes to do a job and what rate they get per hour. Sometimes the prices expected work out to a very low hourly rate. Therefore the overall price increases. What shouldn't happen, is high prices AND lack of service and three year delivery times. | |||
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Wages in Australia are double that in the USA - it affects prices of everything here!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Minimum earners agree yes but pro and middle class the yanks are more even, and pull well ahead at high levels. I agree with the above the industry is tough for gunsmiths these days. I just personally hate aussie prices having spent a few years abroad. The BS we pay for everything from food to electrcity to even the fact an arab business can buy a hilux at half the price we can. We must be close to doube figure inflation in a lot of areas...should be major news. | |||
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Mate tell an American they could be paid $90k for driving a truck in Australia and their eyes fall out of their heads. It isn't just minimum wage earners let me tell you. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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They would be more suprised to learn a guy on 90K taxed in a year still can't afford to buy a mid size 4x4 in Australia is the point. By middle class/pros I was referring to levels above that. | |||
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Well it depends where that person lives and their personal situation. A single man could afford that 4WD, so long as they didnt live in inner Sydney. Location is key - the 4WD cost the same in the country but your other expenses are WAY lower. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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The American captains of industry earn much more than ours, of course, and are rewarded by the board and sharemarket way beyond what the save when they sack workers or fail themselves and have to be paid to go away. Ours only get payouts of $10-60 million, poor buggers! | |||
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Mate mid size aka Landcruiser(compared to the yanks big trucks), no one is buying that in a year anywhere in Australia on 90K. He is on 65K after tax- unless by 'living in the country' you mean he is able to spear his own food and drag it back to the free cave he is living in. | |||
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What do you mean buying it in a year? Who pays for a new vehicle over a year? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Canadian directional drillers | |||
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A North American on 90k, given their 4x4 are a fraction the price of ours, and their salaries are still worth something over there. Thanks Dogleg Getting back to the topic might anyone have heard of John Clapham in NSW? I heard he was a good smith and wondering if he might be an option for big bore custom builds? | |||
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God bless 'em!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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This is a friends 500 Jeffery built by John Clapham "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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Did you ever get your .500? | |||
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Thanks for the pic TP. I have contacted him about rebarrelling a CZ in 416 to the 530/460 Woodleigh. | |||
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Yeah mate, I am selling it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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How does it compare with the VC? | |||
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John makes some excellent Bigbore customs ranging from rebarrelling BRNOs through to higher grade builds - he's just gone full time as well which is great to see given the numbers getting out of the game. What are you hoping to have built? Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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I never got to hold the gun, it stayed in the USA and I sold it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Too bad, I was looking forward to seeing it. A friend has a .500 extractor gun coming, I'll have to wait. | |||
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Bob does excellent work. There is also Jim Kent at Buffalo Gunsmiths in Toowoomba, not same league as Bloomfield/Cussens but quick and hard to fault his work. There is a bloke in Cairns starts with a G I think, good rep. Just the blokes I nknow of that have not been mentioned. | |||
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Gabe Gatti. | |||
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Pine Rivers Gunsmiths did some work for me on my 500 ASquare ,after another bitching moaning gunsmith mentioned here, that I drove an hour and a half to see him, said he didn't want to do it, and had 6 months work there already to do [why didn't he tell me that before I drove and hour and a half for nothing ?] and said he was tired of fixing other peoples F...k ups and having his name then attached to them .Pine Rivers did a good job on it, and I will go back to them again | |||
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Pine Rivers have done 2 re-barrels for me... one was spot on and the other atrocious. The latter rifle had such a giant headspace issue it would comfortably chamber a field gauge. Very disappointing. Especially after the first rifle was so well done. | |||
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