http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OneyeUxzL40

Not only is the shooting amazing, but also the sheer number of buff that he shot 40,000!

The technique they use to load the buff on to the trailer is also amazing. African PHs have a lot to learn from watching this video!

I don't know how far this is true, but I read that the really big buff (horns) genetics were wiped out during this period of culls.

Arjun Reddy
Founder
HuntersNetworks.com
Http://www.HuntersNetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: 845 259 3628

Re the Genetics, not all the Buffalo were wiped out.

You still get really big horned bulls - and bullocks, the difference is they tend not
to live as long nowadays so don't get the
chance to grow out.

Some of the really big horns you see in photos
were bullocks or cows.

Some really good shooting by Howell with the humble 308win....

quote:

"the model 77 Ruger .308 using nato military ammunition continues to do its job faultlessly"

In an auto-biography of an Aboriginal stockman who had invested to run a cattle station,
He tells how he first had to get rid of the Buff numbers, to be able to properly run cattle.
They advertised for a buffalo contractor.
Colin Howells signed a contract that was supposed to be for 3 yrs,beginning 1972-73,
but Colin pulled up stumps at the 2 1/2 yr mark, reneging on some of the agreements he had made in the contract.
When he wanted to return, he was told that he was no longer welcome.
Those running the cattle station received about $2000-$3000 per fortnight in royalties from the cull.
Colin Howells workers were payed well,..about $2000 per fortnight.
approx. 9500 buffalo were culled on that station in the Weemol area.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OneyeUxzL40


The technique they use to load the buff on to the trailer is also amazing. African PHs have a lot to learn from watching this video!

Yup! I can just see a slack jawed, chin dribbling client watching his many dollar Cape buffalo being "slam dunked" onto a trailer. I think that the language would be a little harsh.

Some good shooting in the clip.

quote:

Some good shooting in the clip

Yes it was!! I would think some folks today would say he's undergunned.

I didn't watch the Vid as I'm on dial up right now, but I used to work in a Wild Buff recovery meat works & later as a shooter there, Wild Boar Station on the Marrakai plains, we did human consumption in Australia only as we killed ours in the field, loaded them with the shooting truck & pulleys on to heavy trailers & next to us was Point Stewart who did export, they killed theirs in the works !

We started with 338's & 300Gr Winchester ammo, but as they all had to be head shot, we used 30/06 Ball rounds in a Sako then went to 308Win with Ball in a heavy barrel Ruger & rebarreled the Sako to !

I those days any cartridge over a certain velocity were banned, couldn't have a 222 or 303, but 44/40 & 45/70 were Ok, we had a special commercial license as I remember.

Lots of Buffalo killed with the 45/70 & 12Ga shotgun slugs !

We use our winch & rollers on the roof to load Horses & Donkeys (some times Buff) in our Cull/pig hunting camp to move them around for bait stations.

quote:
"the model 77 Ruger .308 using nato military ammunition continues to do its job faultlessly"

But the 144Gr Nato ammunition was not to good as the bullet would bend,flaten & deform, some times going in the side & coming out the front !!

We shot mainly Big Bulls for the weight & the Ball Projectiles struggled on those big skulls !

Just watched the video & our set up was just the same, but with Toyota's & bigger high sided trailers !

G'Day Fella's,

Fascinating and good to see that this part of Australia's history, was recorded with a camera!

Doh!
Homer

Re the use of 308 cal,previous to that cal in "the old days" the 303 British was the go to cal.

Now it seems that unless you have a 375 H+H or better you are under gunned.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

Now it seems that unless you have a 375 H+H or better you are under gunned.

Not necessarily only now. It was during British rule that the minimum for the African Buffalo was the 375. This may not be the case for the more relaxed Aus Buffalo (like those on the video) but it was required back then in Africa and not just now.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Now it seems that unless you have a 375 H+H or better you are under gunned.

For the average punter, IMHO yes.

Too many cock ups with lesser calibres.

The one's you "don't' hear about.

You only ever hear of the one shot,
spectacular kills with a 308.

You must admit Nige that the decent shots in this world dont have much of a problem head shooting them as per the vid. I know of one self appointed expert punter that got upset when he found out ******** was head shooting big bulls with a 7mm.
Re the 375 I posted it was not for Cape buff at all it was more for those that promote the need for big bangers for asiatic buff in Australia.

Sure there are some blokes that couldn't kill them with a 600 nitro ha ha.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Sure there are some blokes that couldn't kill them with a 600 nitro ha ha.

There is one well known gun dealer in Aus
that can't hit a barn door at 50 feet and
he is just dangerous out bush !!!
I hunt with the bloke that has backed him up !!!


The problem is, you miss the brain - and it is
not that big - and it's gone. Miss as in bullet enters the hollow cavity above the skull, hit the jaw or teeth, both of which will stop a bullet dead in it's tracks, hit the horns.

I would feel 1000% better with a highly proficient shooter like Howell[&. 308win] beside me,
rather than a - retard with a .375cal ..

Seen that before.

I think he totally missed the first shot ?

Taken before the days of "Slip, Slop, Slap" ....

The WHS of today would absolutely go ape at the buffalo surfing as well.

That's how I imagined Aus to be before I came over here.

Where are you Matty,you never miss a post?

Awesome video.

As much as I do prefer my big bores, I have killed a few with .308 fmj, not to mention .275 Rigby and assorted other small calibres.

But how about that comment about the .50s being found? I'm trying to do the maths to imagine that, and I'm just not sure. Unless it was right on 1960 - 1965 at most - I would have thought none would've lived long enough to have been found with an embedded .50 bmg. And where would it have been embedded? And how did it pull-up there without punching through? Maybe a ricochet off the ground or through another animal, and into pure meat?

The air force was up there for quite a while after the end of the war o pot shots could well
have been taken well after.

Alternatively, someone had a hand cannon they
let rip with.

Re not punching through, longer range from either a person or an aircraft could penetrate and not exit and unless it hit a vital organ, Buffalo can often survive.

Enjoyed watching that!

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Where are you Matty,you never miss a post?

Who me? Busy hunting buffalo....

you were posting on the other buffalo thread much the same time...musta missed this one Matty!

No comment re the vid? Seems strange from such a knowledgeable bloke as you are that you have refrained.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
you were posting on the other buffalo thread much the same time...musta missed this one Matty!

No comment re the vid? Seems strange from such a knowledgeable bloke as you are that you have refrained.

I only just watched it this arvo Mr. Smart-Arse. Lack of time and solid internet connection. You seem to follow my posts very closely ...

I did enjoy the clip though - it was very well made for it's time. His comments about BTEC are still true and happening today and we are no closer to recognising wild buffalo ffor their true value - not just for safari hunting but conservation and other economic value.

Mr Smart Arse to Prof Buffalo Sir...I dont follow your posts 'very closely" ha ha paranoia will destroy ya!

I thought that after years of maintaining that super remchesteruger double magnums are best that you may have scorned the head shooting with the 308 or at least commented (earlier)on an important piece of film that we are lucky to have on record.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Mr Smart Arse to Prof Buffalo Sir...I dont follow your posts 'very closely" ha ha paranoia will destroy ya!

Well - you were the one saying I was posting elsewhere?

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

I thought that after years of maintaining that super remchesteruger double magnums are best that you may have scorned the head shooting with the 308 or at least commented (earlier)on an important piece of film that we are lucky to have on record.

You are trying to think too much.

There is a time and place for everything. Headshooting with a 308 from a vehicle by a fulltime culler... who can dispute that? Safari hunting on foot for a once in a lifetime trophy animal... different story. One day you may understand, when you get a little more experience in that respect, under your belt.

Keep it civil Gents

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Mr Smart Arse to Prof Buffalo Sir...I dont follow your posts 'very closely" ha ha paranoia will destroy ya!

Well - you were the one saying I was posting elsewhere?

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

I thought that after years of maintaining that super remchesteruger double magnums are best that you may have scorned the head shooting with the 308 or at least commented (earlier)on an important piece of film that we are lucky to have on record.

You are trying to think too much.

There is a time and place for everything. Headshooting with a 308 from a vehicle by a fulltime culler... who can dispute that? Safari hunting on foot for a once in a lifetime trophy animal... different story. One day you may understand, when you get a little more experience in that respect, under your belt.

Elsewhere? meaning on the same AR forum right here but in another thread you goose...that is why I suggested that "you missed this one" especially when the word buffalo was the buzz word,dunce.


I am on this forum to gain that extra experience that only blokes such as yourself can impart matty,this is why reading your words of wisdom on shooting a few Asiatic beasts of burden make me feel so oh so good.Thank you so much.
As far as hunting trophies on foot I do it in pursuit of the true top of the game species in Australia,the Sambar Deer. I dont care much about bovines except Indian Gaur and Cape Buffalo.

Meanwhile I will sit back and gain some well needed experience that can only be gleaned from your insightful posts....don`t slip up though ha ha!

quote:

There is a time and place for everything. Headshooting with a 308 from a vehicle by a fulltime culler...

Not taking sides but very true.

Too much can go wrong as has been shown
numerous times.

And I am sure that the cullers also had
times when the animal lifted it's head
at the last minute and they missed or
copped on in the jaw where the teeth
or jaw bone stops a bullet dead.

Yet you freely advocate hip shots Nigel?

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Yet you freely advocate hip shots Nigel?

Not sure what you mean.

Every hip shot I shoot is at an already wounded animal facing away and is done to stop the animal running. This is taken over a rear end spine shot as I find the hip easier to aim at and hit.

And I think from memory all but 2 animals
have stopped dead in their tracks, the two
that didn't I think I missed one and didn't
hit the hip in the other.

Also, I can get to the hip from multiple angles, you can't do that with the brain shot.

Once the hip is hit, the bullet can still get through to the vitals (or other CNS like the back bone although that is unlikely)

The brain shot on a Buff is only available from a few angles and even then,
you still have the possibility of deflection away from it even if you are only off 1 cm
(ref the frontal brain shot that misses the brain cavity and ends up in the honeycombed cavity above the lower skull).


Anyway, will wait for you to explain further what you meant.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:

Not sure what you mean.

No one is really quite sure - least of all him.

So does a banteng stack up for you Johnnie - or are they just beasts of burden too? Oh wait ... I doubt you have even seen one - but that doesnt stop you posting your own words of wisdom (established by talking to internet buddies rather than actual experience)... you and Naki should become hunting buddies!!

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Yet you freely advocate hip shots Nigel?

Gryph

Thinking about it, what has hip shots taken by me got to do with precision head shooting where the margin for error is less, regardless of calibre ?

It doesn't matter if you shoot a Buffalo in the jaw with a 500 Nitro, the bullet will stop dead
or the teeth will rip it apart as it goes through and the animal will get very pissed off.

You can shoot a Buff in the skull with a 500 Nitro but if the bullet doesn't pass through
to the brain and ends up in the honeycomb
cavity, you MAY knock it down for a second
but it will likely get up again.

A side on shot that hits the horns or the base of the horn can stop dead and not penetrate
- it happened to me with a 9.3 at close range.

At least with a hip shot it is more than likely to put it down, a bit high and right or left and you get the spine, a bit low the leg bone.

(We are talking conventional lead core bullets here)

Anyway, await your explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
So does a banteng stack up for you Johnnie - or are they just beasts of burden too?

Glorified cows, that's all they are

Over valued, just like Sambar, put out
a bit of hay and drive up and shoot them

Tin foil hat on

Serious hunters owe it to an animal to deliver correctly aimed shots to minimise pain and suffering,the hip is no such place.

Hydros deal with horns Nigel,thats been proven.

Matty pull your head in,your name only gets worse with your trite slinging as it doesn't help your standings in the International Hunting fraternity...shrinking standings that is!

Banteng schmanteng,no matter what you say the boys I know that have rolled a few know they are not in the league of the two bovines I mentioned...what? you didnt know that? And you are "international guide of the year"

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Serious hunters owe it to an animal to deliver correctly aimed shots to minimise pain and suffering, the hip is no such place.

Where else do you shoot, apart from the spine
on a running animal that is already wounded that is going directly away from you so all
you can see is it's ass ?

And FYI, "to minimise pain and suffering"
the coup de grace is normally done within
5 - 10 seconds.

IMHO, better I stop it with a hip shot and am able
to finish it off than miss a spine shot and have
an already wounded animal run away ?

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Serious hunters owe it to an animal to deliver correctly aimed shots to minimise pain and suffering,the hip is no such place.

Hydros deal with horns Nigel,thats been proven.

Matty pull your head in,your name only gets worse with your trite slinging as it doesn't help your standings in the International Hunting fraternity...shrinking standings that is!

Banteng schmanteng,no matter what you say the boys I know that have rolled a few know they are not in the league of the two bovines I mentioned...what? you didnt know that? And you are "international guide of the year"

Teach me to be so funny like you. Side-splitting comedy!!

Nigel I ref to where you have suggested in the past few years online or perhaps it was over the phone to me during one of our chats (?) that if you want the animal and cant get a good kill shot in then your choice of FIRST shot is the hip...

Back later gotta cut up a deer.

I seriously doubt Nigel ever said that - hearing loss on your part I suspect.

Gaur eh? Know anyone who has actually legally hunted one in Asia?... I actually know a couple - not like your internet bum-buddies.

I gotta run too. Who knows what the future holds for you Johnnie? Perhaps one day your agates may descend and you might actually get to SEE (maybe even hunt?) some of these bovines you espouse knowledge on!!

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Nigel I ref to where you have suggested in the past few years online or perhaps it was over the phone to me during one of our chats (?) that if you want the animal and cant get a good kill shot in then your choice of FIRST shot is the hip...

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I wrote but
I wouldn't take a 1st shot as a hip shot
at an unwounded Buffalo.

For me it's always a 2nd or 3rd shot to stop a runner.

Show me where I recommended it as a first shot ?


Also, because I use a heavy for calibre bullet
in most of what I use, if I can see the ass
on a stationary animal then I can normally
see the 5th rib and if I can see the 5th rib,
I KNOW I can place the bullet accurately to
take out that rib AND get through to the vitals
- heart or lungs.

I know because I have done it a few times
and these are the animals that are generally
fcuked and don't run.

So if I can do that (get to the vitals via the 5th rib), why would I hip shoot an animal ???

Doesn't make sense ?

quote:

Nigel I ref to where you have suggested in the past few years online or perhaps it was over the phone to me during one of our chats (?) that if you want the animal and cant get a good kill shot in then your choice of FIRST shot is the hip...

Cant show you as I cbf going through your zillion posts Nige,but then perhaps you did say it on the phone anyway i will listen to you and never mind what the pet goose,(gosling sorry) in the background say`s either...he has to run down to the Lawn Bowls Club to see if he can pull a granny.

here ya go Matty,show us how its done!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...IaVdo&has_verified=1