Tahr control programme kicked off to day but not the start anyone would expect.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nation...-near-wanaka-airport

Sorry to hear it. Choppers are a somewhat dangerous form of transport, of course. As I recall Ralph Nader wouldn't travel in them - but I'm not sure if I would trust his judgement any more.

Who's Ralph Nader? Forget about him, I know a bunch of people that wont fly in one.

Tim Wallace had fifteen crashes and has brain damage now both his sons are dead. Fucking death traps.

I think everyone I ever met who worked in venison recovery has a crash story or two.

Deathtraps they can be but Aussie Dick Smith did the
round the world flight in his Jetranger helicopter and first successful helicopter flight to the North Pole.

https://collection.maas.museum/object/110000

Sorry Carlsen,
try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

The reason I mentioned him is because he was an early consumer advocate, especially in areas of transport safety.

My resolve comes from his later crazy, if not tragic, foray into politics.

Transport of any sort can be dangerous as can just being out in the outdoors hunting.
It comes down to the degree of risk you want to take. I've flown in choppers many times over the years for hunting and when involved in search and rescue and have come to view them as just another form of transport.

Choppers suffering engine failure can land successfully providing they have some height and a small area to land on without tipping over. Pretty rare to have a complete failure of a turbine engine, the Robinson choppers can have mast bumping issues where they lose the main rotor but I haven't, and likely wouldn't, fly in one of those.

If you want to hunt tahr and chamois in our Southern Alps on the Westland side you pretty much have to use a chopper to get in and out of the areas, especially if hunting a tahr ballot block.

I've uploaded a video of our chopper trip out of our tahr block in 2016 to UTube, first upload I've done, hope it works.

This is pretty raw stuff from several cell phone video clips joined. Gives you an idea of the chopper loading, noise, and fast low level sort of flying needed to get in or out of these areas when the weather is not too good. The video is probably a better representation of what it is really like rather than a professionally shot and edited video on a fine day. Sure if the machine (Hughes 500D in this video) suffers a failure of some sort under these conditions it would likely be all over for everyone very quickly but you try not to focus on that

Was my youngest son's first trip on tahr and in a chopper, he's crouched at the landing and helping the pilot load then sitting in the middle front seat. Loved it and couldn't wait to do another trip. Me crammed into the back among the gear loaded to the roof. All the utes seen as we come into the chopper base are other hunting parties that are out in their blocks, so all happy enough to use the chopper to get out hunting.


https://youtu.be/HHa_Zll2Axs

In case you're wondering, Eagle, I have flown with James a couple of times, possibly in the same chopper over much the same country, and found the experience a hoot.

I realise the caution taken against bad weather and remember the inability to predict a time of arrival; sitting in a fireless hut in a field of hoar-frost but, despite the cold, reversing my down jacket every 10 minutes because it got too hot.

On the matter of chopper safety, I used to share digs with a TAA pilot who said it had been proved with algebra that a helicopter that hasn't hit something actually can't crash!

Is that like saying - Its not the fall that kills you but the ground at the end of it?

Not too sure, shanks, I think he meant that even without power the propellers would continue to spin, providing some kind of support analogous with a fixed-wing plane gliding down. I can't see how the jolt at the end doesn't add up to a crash, though.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Not too sure, shanks, I think he meant that even without power the propellers would continue to spin, providing some kind of support analogous with a fixed-wing plane gliding down. I can't see how the jolt at the end doesn't add up to a crash, though.

All chopper pilots are taught and continue to practice how to auto-rotate a machine down after losing engine power. If they have enough height on engine failure the main rotor and tail rotor continue to operate and the main rotor is allowed to build up speed during a controlled descent to the ground. Just as when flaring and touching down under engine power a chopper will do the same without power as lift is applied back to the main rotor. Depending on the remaining rotor speed and load the chopper can make a normal landing if on suitable ground or even in less than ideal conditions at least can touch down softly enough in a river bed or similar. A fixed wing aircraft gliding in under engine loss and at a speed above stalling is not so lucky unless it can land on a good flat paddock, beach, road, etc, which you won't find many of in the mountains.

Loss of the main rotor through mast bumping or the tail rotor is curtains for a chopper as all control is lost, very rarely would instant loss of engine or transmission occur. Most chopper prangs are from hitting things when being operated close to the ground or losing orientation and control if flying in adverse weather conditions.

I have heard that the Hughes 500 chopper involved the tragedy apparently exploded in flames about 300m from the ground. This is highly unusual and while mention was made in the news that it had ammunition on board that was just media jumping in on something they know nothing about. Every chopper involved in culling, meat recovery or transporting hunters around the hills will have ammunition on board.

Often choppers will carry spare containers of fuel on board when out culling and hunting, they carry and unload at a handy drop zone, undertake some culling etc, and then return to fuel up again. The 500 machine is jet turbined powered so the Jet A1 fuel is not a volatile petrol type fuel which could fume if leaking.

Although complete conjecture, I'm wondering if a leaking cooking gas cylinder wasn't on board. Something like that could cause an explosion. The true cause of the crash may never be known, there was not much left of the chopper or the unfortunate occupants.

Update - apparently at the request of the pilots family due to the negativity around chopper safety a preliminary accident report was read out at the pilots funeral. A door on the chopper came partially open and a jacket was sucked out into the tail rotor.

Chopper with out tail rotor, fatal.

Eagle:

Regardless of how safe you claim them to be.
lots of 'em end up as busted piles of junk on the ground, sunk in the water and swamps too.

In the army I visited three crash sites of choppers. After that, right behind work a two seater plane hit powerlines. Bodies I saw bits of were just small pieces of stew meat with scraps of cloth on most. Much like the bodies themselves had exploded.

George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Eagle:

Regardless of how safe you claim them to be.
lots of 'em end up as busted piles of junk on the ground, sunk in the water and swamps too.

In the army I visited three crash sites of choppers. After that, right behind work a two seater plane hit powerlines. Bodies I saw bits of were just small pieces of stew meat with scraps of cloth on most. Much like the bodies themselves had exploded.

George

George I don't disagree with anything you have said as like all things mechanical, and human for that matter, there will be failures leading to accidents. A week would hardly go by where we don't have an airliner crash somewhere in the world and a day wouldn't go by where in your country and mine we don't have fatalities on our roads, it is just a matter of luck that it is not you or me as the fatalities

I don't fly very often but by the end of this month I will have made 8 domestic flights, as a passenger, on regular airlines and statistically this really ups the stakes in my case where I could be involved in something nasty. To be honest I am more concerned flying in fixed wing than I am in choppers, maybe in choppers the noise, exhilaration and opportunity to spot game and look over the hunting country acts as a bit of an anesthetic to the danger

Will always remember my first chopper flight. Sitting in the back of a meat hunters chopper on the plywood floor amongst the chilly bins and tents. Door came open and im thinking if this guy banks Im sliding straight out.
Spent rest of flight hunched over holding door which i managed to get half closed and praying.

Its always comforting when the passengers all clap when the plane lands, when flying small South American airlines over the Andes

Speak of coincidence after my last post, just got back from four days away involving a couple of hours flying each way on domestic flights and our ATR plane was struck by lightning while on approach, big bang and vivid flash inside the cabin. No effects and plane landed safely, was announced return trip with plane delayed while it was inspected. Didn't phase me at all but my work colleague just about jumped from his seat into my lap, he's not a good flyer.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Its always comforting when the passengers all clap when the plane lands, when flying small South American airlines over the Andes

Muzza:

Your comment cracks me up. In 1990 at the age of 19, I took my first flight out of the U.S. My destination was Santiago Chile. I believe we were flying ConChile or something similar. When we landed, the passengers all starting clapping. I thought it was odd, but I guess they were glad to live!

On my departure two years later, one of the engines had a major issues. We circled Vina Del Mar for an hour or two before landing back at the Santiago airport. I finally caught another flight and was glad to make it back home!