If the statistics are true this is alarming!
This was part of an email sent to me this am. Nate


about...

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In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

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It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
• Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
• Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
• Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
• In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.



You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.



The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.

BigNate,

I can`t speak personally but my father (in his 80`s now) does verify the story about the German people being disarmed prior to the war.
Dad is an Wehrmacht Eastern front veteran & prior to his time there on the Russian front, he tells of politics gone mad within Germany of the late 1930`s.
History tells us what he says about the politics of the day being true & accurate.
He also told me that the German people were desperate for a solution to the terrible depression they had been enduring since WW1.
So, when the great orator Mr Hitler came along & made all sorts of promises they believed him.

Sound familiar ?

Ofcourse it does, whoever said "History never repeats" was a fool.

Politicians are making the same old promises & judgements with regards as to what`s best for us simple folk all over again.

It really is a pity there are so many people in the world that think they know what`s best for us, wish they`d mind their own bloody business.

Apart from that you`ve provided a great post with great info.

Cheers Morton

It appears we are on the cusp of doing the same old shit over again given what`s going on in the middle east.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
• Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
• Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
• Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
• In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

I think that Nate was asking if the statements above about Oz were true.

The U.N having a plan for the worldwide elimination of the Private ownership of firearms ,doesnt make for a very nice future for us, based on previous ''All knowing Governments''efforts make life ''safer'' for us !

I talked to an Australian Police Officer a while back. He was in the USA on a holiday. He told me since the new gun laws went into effect the crime rate had gone way up.
He also said all the "officials" are trying to keep that quiet, especially the home invasions.

In South Australia a few years ago we had about three incidents in one year of home owners shooting dead threatening burglars and suddenly the number of burglaries into houses where the homeowner was resident decreased.

One of the residents was a very elderly gentleman who used his shotgun on a threatening intruder and the Police tried to charge him (at least the said that to the media) but all three ended up having charges dropped.

This was after a legal change changing the definition of what tests could be applied to "reasonable force". Basically the test was widened to mean, "anything the individual person involved could reasonably believe was necessary to protect themselves (and possibly property as well ???)". Previously they would all have ended up in court, as I believe the test was not what THE individual believed but eg what the common man might believe.

Another gentleman who was a security officer had his target pistol with him in a fuel station and shot two armed robbers as they fled past him after robbing the cash register. He also ended up having charges dropped or not being convicted in court.

You've got to admire the NRA propaganda machine - that is an impressive collection of 'facts'. Pre-gun ban were 'armed Australians' protecting there homes or were the arms mainly for hunting? What was the 'culture' of gun ownership? Soft, unquantifiable question I know, but does anyone have a perspective on this?

On reflection, maybe we do need to add armed burglar to the list of Sth Pacific game species ...

And while I think of it, are the NRA supporting gun control in Iraq?

Say, Jimbob,

Big Nate doesn't site a source...yet you seem confident it's NRA material.

I'm an NRA member, and I don't remember seeing anything in their publications--print or electronic--about Aussie gun control in the last six months.

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Would be interested in reading something that supports your point.

Sincerely,

friar

friar,

You're absolutely right, it was an assumption on my part. No offence to Nate intended, and I hope none taken. Perhaps 'US gun lobby' would be a better term, as this seems pretty typical of the approach and tone those materials, including the NRA ones I've seen seems to take. So, rest assured, I don't know something that you don't.

What I have noticed is that 'facts' on Australia and English gun control seem to be often cited in American publications to support pro-gun arguments. Like Nate, I'm interested in these. Hence my previous post, asking about the 'culture' of gun use pre-ban in Aus. I don't find statistics satisfying things for answering those sort of questions.

And, for the record, does the NRA/US gun lobby support gun control in Iraq? I don't mean that question facetiously. I'm genuinely curious about how far the private gun rationale is taken.

Cheers, and thanks for your comments.

It's a good question, Jim, about the extent to which the NRA or other US organizations would endorse gun control in Iraq. And, of course, it's a catch 22--no doubt Iraq would be safer, better, less violent, without the multitude of small arms, explosives, and misc. weapons.

On the other hand, were I an Iraqi citizen, I would not, under any circumstances, surrender my personal firearms, given the present state of the country.

What to do?

There's another thread going on right now on this forum about "Aussie Gun Control" or something...it links a separate site of a group proposing a number of laws.

In reading that link, it seems obvious that, like groups in the US, there are folks in Australia who want to see all forms of hunting eliminated, as well as the capacity to own/use a firearm for any reason whatsoever.

That is not a circumstance under which I would want to live!

Best regards,

friar

I think Nate's question was just that, a question.
I don't presume to know what he is thinking about but maybe he has just come across this information and is curious to see if it's true. I would also assume that this forum appears to be the easiest place to get access to people in Australia who are familiar with the gun laws and changes that have occurred in your country so he is asking for your input.

I would ask: Has the amount and seriousness of the crime in Australia increased significantly since the latest round of gun control laws went into effect or are the changes easily justified by population and or demographic changes?

Fjold and Friar,

Many thanks for the comments. As before, I don't know, but I don't believe firearms have much to do with those statistics. Check out the SSAA, the Australian 'NRA' website, and you'll find the emphasis on gun ownership, the 'culture' of it is about hunting and target shooting. Likewise in the gun mags here - not a tactical light for your shotgun in sight. So I don't think these stats have anything to do with guns, as it seems firearms, as least recently were not used to guarantee a 'polite society' in the first place. As I said though, that's just a perspective, and my own flawed one at that.

Yes, it seems that a few do want to ban guns here. What I worry about is that emails like the one Nate forwarded would tend to inflame the situation here, rather than lead to a reasoned discussion. I have 'Green' friends in the city, who are all for the environment, never leave the city, but have the perspective that nasty hunters get excited about killing, and make the bush a dangerous place. The thought that firearms would be used to protect civil society would upset them even more. Unreasonable and emotional debate follows ....

Anyway, I'll check out the link you mention.

Cheers!

Send this page and ''Death by Government ''by Rj Rummel [its on net ]to pres@guncontrol.org.au, to this bunch of idiots and MAKE THEM feel GUILTY !!!!!!!!!!!![like they are always trying to do to us law abiding firearms owners] they are the ones Fostering undieing faith in ''Infallible ''Governments that have wrought untold HAVOC!!!!! on millions of innocent human beings throughout History ,the ONLY Thing that stands between us and Mass Murder on a National, and Global scale, is an Armed ,Free, Man !!!!!!

Until we truly understand, and actively engage the 'bereauctric mindset' we're basically f*cked...

We can rant and rave, but at the end of the day, our activities will be governed by those who are trained to not make a decision - if they make a decision and things go south, they lose their job...

So... what can we do to pre-empt this ??????

I've posted this before...

EVERYONE should read the Gun Facts book you can get here:
http://www.gunfacts.info/

It's free to download the electronic versions, and it can certainly shed some light on statistics used in the gun control argument. Send it to all the people you know on both sides of this debate.