All you trophy hunters out there who have hunted the Water Buffalo in Australia, How do you rate them as a Game Animal? I have hunted them in very remote Arhnem land, in very hot conditions and I still found them to be very easy to hunt. Has anybody hunted them and found them a real challenge? Please let me know. On a scale betwwen 1 and 10 ( 10 being the most difficult) I give them a 2 compared to sambar deer a 10.
What are your thoughts?

Havn't shot one yet, but I come across them alot at a place I pig hunt on. These buff have been hit hard by pet meat shooters and are very flighty. In the thick scrub along the creek banks they are hard to see as well.

Thousands were shot from horseback with Martinis in .303,doubt you could do that with Cape Buff.

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http://www.bookworm.com.au/cgi-bin/bookmall/bookworm/re...m?&item.ctx=HC000572

Good old Tom Cole..some great stories and experiences there alright......

To the "out of ten" difficulty scale i also agree with probably everyone else that knows about them that sambar are indeed a TEN...and this is fairly evident amongst many game hunters in Australia and beyond in their trophy rooms...success measured often by numerous trophy heads of reds,rusa,fallow,even hoggies but quite often none or only poor sized sambar stag trophies... something rings a bell dosent it when one walks into such a room with big heads of the others in it and often the poxy little 18 inch sambar turns out to be the favourite trophy on the wall,i`m basically saying that one can be a bloody good "other species" deer hunter but a lot of that go`s out the window with hunting sambar,an animal when hunted which will often go completely nocturnal.
Here in Oz we have millions of possums,how many does one see in the frigging daylight?apply that to hard hunted sambar for an easy answer,these are not deer standing/running about roaring or grunting their heads off often completely oblivious to a hunters prescence these are deer that have evolved as the main prey species of the Indian tiger and in that evolution they have gained incredible senses of self protection (comparing to our other deer species).
I have witnessed these deer down on their knees crawling through low bracken fern to elude a hunter to make good their escape,they will swim underwater at times to shake a hound (true )they will run through the thickest of berry patches many acres in size to elude hounds/hunters,they will lie "doggo" allowing a hunter to walk within mere feet of them if it means to escape attention...i couldnt tell you how many have beaten me by this method)They will utilise their supreme hearing and powers of recognition to make good an escape and combined with the often super shitty weather and terrain factored into the hunt equation there are many many days of hunting put in by even very experienced hunters that offer no chance of success even though there can be many deer in the hunting area...all in all to put it bluntly the sambar stag in the high country of Victoria under legal and ethical hunting conditions has no peers as a game animal in the Southern Hemisphere and its very unfortunate for the true deer hunters of Australia to have their own trophies devalued by the illegal means of obtaining a trophy by spotlighting...yes many big stags adorning walls around the country have been obtained in this manner...to the detriment of their owners..

The water buffalo? I wont comment on them i will leave that up to Matt G and others to have their say...except that one could take a top end experienced buff shooter(sambar virgin) into the Vic alps and give him a good sambar stag to hunt and i think he would be in trouble most times...now looking at the situation from the reverse angle take a good sambar hunter up to the top end and give him a good bull to hunt and i`m bloody positive that his chances of success would be far far greater...I`m not knocking W/B`s as a game animal at all i`m just reiterating the facts from many successful hunters that precede me and those facts tell us "Ok the W/B is a big bodied game animal that can at times swallow some weighty lead but as for pure hunting qualities it ranks a long way down the track in mentioning it in the same line as a mature sambar stag"

Matt G forget the friction `tween us come on down to Vic this year and i will personally take you hunting sambar deer,not for any reward or swap hunts at all mate,just a good chance for you to see how we do it the tough old hard yards way....you never know you could end up with one on the wall

gryphon, i have to agree 100% on what you are saying about the sambar, unfortunately I am one of those who has shot many diffrent trophies of deer ect , but have yet to have shot a trophy Sambar stag. 15 + years of huntng them from Sydney..... now (6 months ago) i moved to Melbourne to be closer for that very reason, to hunt at every oportunity that i can for sambar, I know of many that have been Murdered with the use of electric dogs, it saddens me no end but more the reason to do it the hard way, all those "illegal shooters" must be kidding themselves sticking a Sambar head on the wall that they shot with a light and then think they are pretty good.
Anyhow bring on 2006, I've got a good feeling about this year. (going for a little look this afternoon and in the morning, just to keep my eye in).

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(going for a little look this afternoon and in the morning, just to keep my eye in).

i WAS JUST YAPPING TO MY BOWMAN MATE AND HE ASKED ME IF I HAD BEEN OUT FOR A LATE(REAL EARLY) look.My reply was i was thinking about sitting on a waterhole one late hot evening for a chance...realistically the flies drive you mad..the heat gives you the shits...the snakes take some spotting and the stags are mainly cast anyway...maybe late Feb or March is when i will get my lazy fat Xmas arse off the couch hahaaha.
Even April can be warm and the bush too dry for hunting and its prob about May unless the early break comes that we will get going in earnest.

This is very interesting stuff. I'd love to hunt a sambar and maybe some day I'll come over to do that.. (I hope !) I certainly know almost nothing about water buffalo in Australia although I am trying to learn. The little bit that I do know about buffalo (in general) is that the ones that are hunted .. (be it by lions or guys with rifles) can become incredibly spooky .. and there is always the danger element ,,, if you screw up or just get unlucky ...

Duggaboybuff,

On a side note,is that your new Chapius .375H&H Double that you have in the photo?, What pill did you use to take that beast, Woodleighs? Have you tried the 350grainers yet?

Woodjack, yes it is a Chapius in .375 H & H . I used 300 Tungsten solids by Federal they worked well. I do have some 350gn Woodlieghs to try but i haven't yet, but i shoot With 300gn Woodliegh protected points and I have it cutting the same hole with both barrels at 50 meters

Yes Tony your Chapius will work well in the Zambezi in 2007.
You wont be available this year will you?
I might also go this year.
Let me know what animals other than the Dagga Boy you might be interested in so i can work with it.
Also those 350gners have awsome penertration.
Cheers,
Adam

Hi mate, yes this year is out, but i'm in for 2007!!!!! mate along with the Buff, the only plains game that would interest me would be Sable, water buck (I wounded one and lost it last time) and possibly Nyala, but a good buff hunt on its own is fine by me. By the way, i put a deposit down on a Blaser R93 in 9.3 x 62 last week in the safari model.

I dont know if thats quite right Shaun - maybe some of our African friends might know more about that but I suspect many thousands of Cape Buff have been shot from horseback just the same. Fred Selous' writing springs to mind - I know he shot a lot from horseback.

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Originally posted by Easy_Rollins:
Thousands were shot from horseback with Martinis in .303,doubt you could do that with Cape Buff.

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http://www.bookworm.com.au/cgi-bin/bookmall/bookworm/re...m?&item.ctx=HC000572

I'd like to hunt the sambar stag.
timan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Easy_Rollins:
Thousands were shot from horseback with Martinis in .303,doubt you could do that with Cape Buff.

[QUOTE]

I would be willing to bet big dollars you could kill any buffalo alive with a 303.

A water buff is a much bigger animal than a cape buffalo. But waterbuffalo in Australia aren't hunted by lions and hyaenas are they?

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Matt G forget the friction `tween us come on down to Vic this year and i will personally take you hunting sambar deer,not for any reward or swap hunts at all mate,just a good chance for you to see how we do it the tough old hard yards way....you never know you could end up with one on the wall Wink

Well Matt G ? You are quick most times in answering my posts so what about this invite?

There's no money in it Gryp.

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Originally posted by Easy_Rollins:
There's no money in it Gryp.

Ah ha so i should offer HIM money?????

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Originally posted by gryphon1:

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Originally posted by Easy_Rollins:
There's no money in it Gryp.

Ah ha so i should offer HIM money?????

Hey Gryph Im sorry I forgot to reply. I have been away for a week or so and I was crook as a dog last night when I posted.

Thanks for the offer Gryphon. I would like to have the time in the future to take you up on that.

Easy - I don't think your last comment was very fair mate...

I reckon anyone with an interest in any sort of hunting has to try the sambar hunting exp,especially our deer hunting bro`s overseas..none of that sit up a tree for five days shit either just pure hunting in its truest form.

Back to the main topic .....

I would agree sambar rates a ten out of ten. Only hunted them a couple of times myself, but based more on what others have said. Most wary "jungle" based creatures rate more highly in difficulty due to the closeness of the terrain, the difficulty in locating them in thick bush before they are aware of the hunter and the likelihood of the necessity of a quick running shot.

How does water buffalo compare or rate? I would agree in countryside not hunted too hard, a 2 to 4 would be about right as well. Unlike a sambar however they can be a dangerous game animal and can take a lot more to put down especially if the shots are not well placed. They are a big game animal that deserves respect and usually the use of an adequate calibre especially if one is hunting on foot.

I think water buffalo in hard hunted areas can be quite a bit more difficult. Certainly one area I hunted last year had buffalo that were very aware and ran away many hundred metres away. In some areas the buffalo appear to not have seen humans much before.

Personally I hunt for my pleasure not for bragging rights with others, and not some sort of "proof" to measure myself against others to judge one by. Really it doesn't worry me at all what others think.

I wonder how hard historically sambar were to hunt in their home range, India? Having seen some very spectacular stags this month there. However with no hunting pressure (parks) they mostly were not afraid.

As for cape buffalo I am sure many thousands have been shot with 8x57s, 7x57s, .308s, .303s too, just like water buffalo. The difference in Africa is the sporting hunting industry is more commercial and governments have imposed minimum firearm restrictions. From my limited experience and hypothesis I believe water buffalo are harder to kill outright but cape buffalo are more aggressive, in the small number of cases where attacks occur. The presence of feline predators would account for this.

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Personally I hunt for my pleasure not for bragging rights with others, and not some sort of "proof" to measure myself against others to judge one by. Really it doesn't worry me at all what others think.

Well maybe you dont JH but many others do...posting all their pics from Africa,Australia Europe etc its part of hunting isnt it...(the bragging) and shit stirring in camp wether its the size or quality of the game or the poor shot effort etc
Its not hard to see who is proud of what they have taken either posting pics or posting stories or just references to what they hunted (some fellas jump at the chance to include their game heads in others threads..often repeatedly)
All good stuff that makes the world go round and i wont even mention fellas that brag about how good their choice of firearm is (or size)
Lets face it no one really wants to see one horned antelope when we can see two big horns etc.
When you mention the word "proof' i think most hunters use success as "proof" against the great game animals not what others think....wouldnt you agree?

Of course most hunters like to talk about their hunts and show photos etc. Hells Bells, I get attacked if I don't post photos within a couple weeks of returning by other people.

But I don't like the attitudes that says, "well your hunt wasn't as difficult as a Vic mountain sambar hunt, so it isn't as good." People can all make their own value judgements, they don't need other people to downgrade their own experiences. Hell I love to go out and hunt hares in the vineyards. It is just as enjoyable to me as a NT water buffalo hunt, now that I am older and done a bit of other hunting.

For size of firearm, it is funny how I got seriously attacked for not attacking a friend for his using a 6.5mm successfully on buffalo, yet I use a .450 NE (or a 9.3x74R), and always recommend a minimum of a .375 H&H (based on guides recommendations. One can't win, hey!




OK can't resist the bragging photo. Haven't got any of sambar stags yet as I am only a lowly buffalo hunter PS Gryphon, will take you up on the offer soon I hope to try to remedy that!

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OK can't resist the bragging photo. Smiler Haven't got any of sambar stags yet as I am only a lowly buffalo hunter Wink Big Grin PS Gryphon, will take you up on the offer soon I hope to try to remedy that!

Been offering you that for about five years i reckon JohnH hahaha.
Hey JH we only invite lowly buff hunters mate coz we dont want to be shown up in our own patch..hmmm now havent i seen that photo of you and the buff someplace before?

Im not really 100% sure that i ever said that one hunter is actually better i think i may have said the sambar man might just have a better chance of success on the other side of the country...but if i did i might even be correct hahaaa..who gives a rats it sells stories on the net, in print and the film media all around the world..prob is i dont get any money for it.

Now JH thinking about that (if i was making money) just imagine the stories i could come up with to even further the mighty sambars qualities..not to mention how dangerous they are
By the way mate that IS a nice photo of a nice animal and i`m sincere about that too

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Originally posted by gryphon1:

Been offering you that for about five years i reckon JohnH hahaha.

But you were in Queensland most of that time! I think 2006 may be possible.

but i did make the effort to come down and hunt john..even if it meant driving NSW`s shitty roads.

i have shot both...water buffulo and sambar, a few times over, and without a doubt sambar are more difficult to anchor on the spot with any calibre and good shot placement...i have had only three sambar fall on the spot and that was when the spine was hit , the rest ran ...and it wasent due to bad shot placement either
the best comparison is , one you shoot and think your hunting , the other your actually hnting...thats not to say i dont like shooting buffs
regards daniel

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Originally posted by M 98:
i have shot both...water buffulo and sambar, a few times over, and without a doubt sambar are more difficult to anchor on the spot with any calibre and good shot placement...i have had only three sambar fall on the spot and that was when the spine was hit , the rest ran ...and it wasent due to bad shot placement either
the best comparison is , one you shoot and think your hunting , the other your actually hnting...thats not to say i dont like shooting buffs
regards daniel

Oh oh M 98 thems fighting words

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Originally posted by gryphon1:
Oh oh M 98 thems fighting words

Damn Gryph, your need to upgrade your pipsqueak 7mm and get something armour piercing from the sound of these sambar. They are armour plated!

Mate its obvious that M 98 is using the wrong calibre not me hahaa...though i did once nail a hind 600 yards from where she was shot with a .375 H+H (with my 7mm of course)