sambarman,

Don't worry I know extra cold winters are 'evidence' of global warming, the same as:

tsunamis;
earthquakes;
extra cold;
extra hot;
droughts;
floods;
bushfires;
rainstorms;
duststorms;
etc etc

Seem them all claimed as 'evidence' of 'climate change'.

And yes I do believe in climate change, as nature is always changing, going through cycles. The Artic ice and Greenland ice melting last occurred around 800 to 1100 AD, when the Norse settled and farmed in Greenland.

As for "global warming" I believe the "warming" statistics showed it "plateaued" around 1990 and since then no statistical increase has occurred. When "global warming" suddenly became "climate change".

As for man's activities being a significant cause? I seriously doubt it, lots of spin, and no serious evidence to support it.

As for reducing toxic pollution where it is reasonably feasible? Why not.

As for a big new ffffing tax on air to support incompetent gov't spending? No FFFFING way!

JMO's.

Geez John - you and I have similar views on "climate change" - thats scary ....

Makes a change from being on opposite sides of the fence I guess . Most of the spin is politically inspired to suit the requirements of vested interest groups who receive Government funding and wish that funding to continue.

Its nature doing what it does best - whatever it damn well wants .

Excellant discussion from everyone , keep it up

You have done well with this one Muzza you got to page 2

( with a little help )

Sorry John,
tsunamis and earthquakes are not generally thought to be anything to do with global warming. If you've kept up with the discussion, you might remember me saying that actuarially, they had not increased as a problem over the past 20 years (before the Japanese disaster) while insurance claims to do with weather-induced events had doubled.

I wonder if the mediaeval greening of Greenland may have had something to do with the massive clearing of the European forests, which occurred about the same time. I don't mind having a campfire up the bush as it might save the dead wood rotting to methane and will be replaced by another sapling anyway. It's when you clear trees and don't replant new ones (or dig up carbon that was well sequestered) that we get an on-going problem.

It is easy to be cynical but perhaps you could try looking at it this way:

If there's nothing in it, the world will be better off without the respiratory problems from the particulate pollution that goes along with burning fossil fuels.

If the '96 per cent' of scientists are right, tackling global warming might save the lives of millions, some, possibly, your descendants.

- Paul

quote:

You have done well with this one Muzza you got to page 2

And no bad language or shouting yet Denis . Must be a record for on here ...

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:

quote:

You have done well with this one Muzza you got to page 2

And no bad language or shouting yet Denis . Must be a record for on here ...

its a local forum mostly ....hey.......we only get over-excited about OZ-NZ sport& we can laugh about it amongst ourselves after the event.
I must thank someone on here for the cartoon after the last 'cup derby. I sent it to an NZ expatriat mate of mine over here in commiseration. He laughed like buggery about it as it poked fun at my side.

Paul
Re- roller wash.
I made a post about that but its gone missing in the ether.the forum was going thru one of its hissy-fits at the time with long delays & my post must have timed out before it got to the server.

water based acrylic paint is best disposed of on your lawn.It breaks down with UV exposure & biological action in the ground.
dilute & spread each wash in a different area . concentrating it in one section of lawn significantly increases the breakdown period & increases the risk that you smother the leaves & stop them 'breathing'........will not
(should not)otherwise harm your grass.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Sorry John,
tsunamis and earthquakes are not generally thought to be anything to do with global warming.

But any BS is used to try to justify the unproven theories.

What about increased ''warming'' on other planets in the solar system which is taking place?, which has nothing to do with human activity or or aliens driving overgrown SUVs ,its caused by increased spectral emissions from the Sun .Scientists arent perfect ,unlike the claim they were trying to make on the ABC catylst program .They have been wrong in the past ,can be bribed ,bought off blackmailed etc .They constantly accept evolution as a fact ,when they dont have the complete scientific evidence to prove it conclusively
using their ''scientific method ''.There is nothing humans realistically can do to stop climate change if the sun is resposible for climate change taking place .Dreaming politicians and greenies

quote:

Originally posted by DenisB:

water based acrylic paint is best disposed of on your lawn.It breaks down with UV exposure & biological action in the ground.
dilute & spread each wash in a different area . concentrating it in one section of lawn significantly increases the breakdown period & increases the risk that you smother the leaves & stop them 'breathing'........will not
(should not)otherwise harm your grass.

Thanks Denis,
I might keep it for a while until some of the solids sink, then do what you suggest. The solids might go in the bin when they dry out.

Tankhunter,
I'm afraid I haven't heard of a general warming on all planets, though carbon dioxide has certainly made Venus hot enough. No one is perfect and scientists are generally too tied down by the demands of scientific method to speak publicly on things they can't prove. The main global-warming gainsayers seem to be geologists. What makes them experts in the matter, I'm not sure, but I suspect a couple have worked for mining companies in their time.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

I might keep it for a while until some of the solids sink, then do what you suggest. The solids might go in the bin when they dry out.

I see..........a concerned environmentalist passing his problem waste on to someone else to deal with..........instead of dealing with it himself.

[/QUOTE]But any BS is used to try to justify the unproven theories.[/QUOTE]

And scam "Dopey Joe Soap" out of donations.

Sorry Denis,
I didn't realise a bit of dried paint in landfill was a big deal. Unlike one of my daughters, I don't buy the whole greenie bag. I wouldn't be a duck shooter if I did.

But point taken. I guess you're saying: don't wait, pour the stuff out now before it separates.

Yeah Paul,
settled into a thick lump its breakdown period is quite long , especially when buried away from sunlight.

I'm not an environmental vandal as a fisherman , far from it , I've developed industry codes of practice , animal welfare practices & policies & sustainable harvest management practices.
I'm not the whole greenie bag either, just doing sensible practical things.

Quite a few years ago I cracked a fuel line in my boat while on the shelf working & filled the bilge with 600 litres of diesel till the bilge alarm went off.
Had enough fuel in the tanks with the spare I carry to get home.
cost me $450 for the vacuum pump truck to come down to the harbour and suck it out of my bilge, where most would just pump it out at sea.
Everything is relative........you do whats practical.

The truck driver had a smile on his face from ear to ear as he made a pretty penny selling the fuel to a re-processor to clean it up for re-issue.

Exterior enamels that use turps for clean up are a tougher nut to crack.
I settle & recycle the turps to use for brush cleanups , but the solids in that case are a longterm issue for breakdown , still spread on the lawn tho, after decanting most of the turps. temporarily kills the grass back , but it regrows from the root stock in a couple of weeks.
The only fresh turps I use is a little in the last brush wash to get the last of the enamel out of the brush.........and it goes in the decanter for re-use.

Its not about having no footprint, thats impractical in today's world, its about minimising the footprint where its practical to do what you can.IMHO.

You've got me, Denis. I have to admit I had previously thought landfill was a place we sent solid rubbish that couldn't be recycled and wouldn't break down in compost. Though our place is constantly junked up with stuff waiting to go to the op shop, and batteries and chemicals awaiting some council disposal opportunity, I have reused brush-washing turps in a series of containers but eventually put the dried-up containers in the bin. I have occasionally painted weeds with turpsy brushes, behind the back shed. (I pause here to genuflect and say Hail Maries.)

Having a fair bit of lawn and marginal grass, I should find somewhere to dispose of paint from now on. But, in case somebody asks me, I don't suppose you'd know what high-rise flat dwellers are supposed to do?

Paul,
You've got me there, in return.

Thinking,thinking.........

maybe highrise building codes should require rooftop lawns...........that would be something the greenies can get on to.

No wait.......
using current Gov't policy framework they can bring in a paint tax , waste half the money collected on social objectives , rather than paint disposal & set up a grant scheme with the other half for the research freeloaders to get their nose in the policy trough to play with finding alternative solutions.

Sounds a bit like carbon tax policy doesn't it.


( sorry........... couldn't help myself.)

You are right about the role of landfill.
the key part is the " couldn't be recycled " bit.
its principle reads can't be recycled ........not can't be bothered recycling ...........

What can I say? Some things might possibly be recycled but don't have the sign (cardboard juice containers lined with aluminium and Yakult bottles come to mind). Capsicum seeds might rot down but what if they just grow weeds when we spread the compost? Is it socially responsible to recycle used tissues and wipes?

I could recycle the carbon-tax argument but can't be bothered, except to say what a disappointment Ted Baillieu has turned out to be. To stifle wind energy for populist reasons while taking a soft line on new Western Victorian brown coal mines beggars belief IMHO.

We are getting way off the OP track but is it socially responsible to recycle used tissues,& wipes, etc in the garbage or as the contaminated waste they really are.

we have come full, circle back to Muzza.
......should Muzza be allowed to leave the excreta from his flock in the paddock to spread giardia & cryptosporidium into the waterways to potentially infect others downstream.

Pooper Scooper , Muzza..........that will keep you warm in the snow .......following along behind the flock scooping it up.

Sorry dude - got you on that one . Riparian planting along my streamside - creates a buffer zone of long grass to trap any water run-off down the slope , and the trees absorb that nutrient preventing it getting into the waterways .

http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.n...n-planting-milestone

http://www.egl.co.nz/?page_id=281

This is what we do in my area anyways...

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Sorry dude - got you on that one . Riparian planting along my streamside - creates a buffer zone of long grass to trap any water run-off down the slope , and the trees absorb that nutrient preventing it getting into the waterways .

http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.n...n-planting-milestone

http://www.egl.co.nz/?page_id=281

This is what we do in my area anyways...

Damn........missed by 'that' much.

quote:

Riparian planting along my streamside - creates a buffer zone of long grass to trap any water run-off down the slope , and the trees absorb that nutrient preventing it getting into the waterways .

Have you read Peter Andrews books Muzza?

Do they have lots of pictures mate ?

Cant say I have , but you gotta remember our climate and topograhy , and agricultural practices are way differant to what you guys do in Oz , so stuff that is recommended for you may not be so relevant here.

Whats the name of said books - I'll have a look.

His ideas will work anywhere I'd think.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1925553.htm

His books are on the link below.

http://www.naturalsequencefarming.com/

Wow, this thread is really going places!

Denis, are you saying we should not put used tissues in landfill, either. If so, what can the private house do with contaminated waste?

Paul
its a judgement call on the type of contamination as tissues & wipes get used for a huge variety of purposes.

The issues are :-
- communicable diseases & pathogens
- watershed contamination from land fill runoff.

The practical line to draw for separation of contaminated waste is excrement & any body waste during illness .

There's a judgement call between the benefits of public health & downstream environment health from landfill ..........& potential environmental impacts from relevant direct contaminated disposal methods.

everything in life is a compromise. nothing comes without some impact somewhere in our existence, a sensible approach is least impact compromises.

The appropriate disposal is incineration......as prescribed in the EPA legislation.

DIY:
where the contamination is significant in individual volume
ie baby nappy
disposal of charred remnant is acceptable in general waste provided the remnant has undergone sufficient elevated temp for sufficient time to have "cauterized" the entirety of the remnant.
Its about managing the nature of the contamination such that what is disposed into general garbage is benign in public health impacts.

Hope that helps.

I know you can get into trouble with our local Council for putting dead cats in the recycle bin...I thought everyone knew that cats go in the general rubbish bin , not the recycle one but apparently not so ...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranak...stly-recycling-no-no

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
I know you can get into trouble with our local Council for putting dead cats in the recycle bin...I thought everyone knew that cats go in the general rubbish bin , not the recycle one but apparently not so ...

Quite so
A waste of good fertiliser.

recycle culled cats around the root system of your peach tree..........biggest juiciest peaches in town.

If its the pesky cat from one of your neighbours, assuage any remorse by giving them a bag of fat juicy peaches next summer.
Its OK to smile broadly while giving it to them, but don't laugh too loudly as you walk away.

time tested recycling benefits guaranteed.

Peach trees, eh? Got one of them. Now, where's that moggy that wakes me up at 5.30 in the mornings?

In case anyone still doubts or cares, cock your eye on this show, rerun on our TV tonight:

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/?s...7856#/series/2897856

Deep inside this nerdy voyage to Mercury and Venus is an explanation of what James Hansen worked out in the 1980s. A selective summary of this aspect of it goes something like this: Mercury has virtually no atmosphere and so is incredibly hot on one side and brass monkeys on the other; Venus was apparently once almost a twin of Earth and had its own oceans. Now it is hot as hell all round though its days are longer than its year; (Though Earth's volcanoes, I hear elsewhere, are not active enough to make even the changes we've seen) the volcanoes on Venus are massive and have given the planet a greenhouse effect strong enough to warm it up to an average 900 degrees Celsius. Obviously these scientists consider this a temperature rise higher than the volcano lava and the planet's being closer to the sun can account for.

Complements of the season

- Paul

compliments of the season to you too ,Paul.

Interesting science series, my youngest son is into that stuff.

The really hard stuff in the "global warming" debate has always been & remains ...........the difficulty in separating natural events & variations from manmade ones & the relative significance of both.

I see Canada has withdrawn from the UN Kyoto protocol.
each country has is reasons for its actions , but I don't see Canada being the only ones to withdraw.
The most recent UN "global warming" Gabfest has resiled from any further agreement & put off proposing further resolutions to a longer timeline.

If the scientists cannot agree on the necessity and benefit for cost in moving forward with the Kyoto protocol .........us mere mortals have even more difficulty in sorting the 'wheat from the chaff'.
In the end we are left with making our own personal judgements of what is an appropriate action.
In the meantime the Oz govt is pushing ahead with the carbon tax as an income producer for the Gov't social objectives rather than devoting ALL the funds to carbon reduction research.

We have to be thankful that serendipity placed us where we are in the solar system and acknowledge that physics & other science identifies a finite timeline to habitable conditions on our planet too.

The current 'global warming' debate is really one concept of generational equity in that habitable timeline.
It has a focus that belies its relative significance in a raft of other issues of generational equity in that habitable timeline, but it has a significance in the science & research business plan that is way beyond its relative significance .

I'm always confused by how all climate changes assumed to be happening are always "BAD" ... obviously to some, any CHANGE is always bad or worrying.

Also I would have thought, as a great many also have commented, that increased carbon levels actually are beneficial to plants ???

Interesting, we have been experiencing increased rainfall levels during Spring and Summer, similar to back in the 1970's ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NitroX:
Interesting, we have been experiencing increased rainfall levels during Spring and Summer, similar to back in the 1970's ...
[QUOTE]

agree we are experiencing very similar weather to the 70's , but IIRC the winter, spring, & current summer patterns are in much more frequent & shorter cycles between the highs & lows than back then.

In general the wetness is to be expected in a La Nina event here, & the current one has certainly been a dramatic turnaround from recent years.

Who knows?

We had an interesting Christmas day here: warm and steamy until a thunderstorm hit. The hailstones at my sister's place were only pea sized but nearer our house were reportedly big as tennis balls. Some friends up the road had 40 tiles broken. I've heard of hail this size before but not around here - our weather used to seem temperately boring.

Anecdotal evidence means nothing, of course, but I wonder what the insurance companies think.

Humans have such a short term memory and perspective.

The reason democracy works. Most can't remember even three years back, let alone understand changes or happenings over a hundred years.

Everything is always new ... or always old ... nevermind.

In reality nothing is new under the sun. It has all happened before and mankind is nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

In reality nothing is new under the sun. It has all happened before and mankind is nothing.

I agree with you there, John: according to the program linked above it happened to Venus last time. If that transpires, mankind will be nothing indeed. Of course Earth and Sol will kark it sooner or later, but I'd sooner it is later.

Meanwhile, it's very warm here today ... the kind of weather we used to expect in Feb. As you said earlier, the extra carbon dioxide will aid plant growth - so, if this weather keeps up, get ready for some big bushfires.

We are having a cool summer again, like last year. After a few hot summers. Nothing new under the sun.

It snowed here in Vic yesterday,I was on top of Mt Buller only two weeks ago in very warm sunshine and it is one place that got a good dusting..like on Jan 11th?
Mt Hotham got it also.

Funny weather all right. Did I hear of something approaching a tornado in SE Melbourne yesterday?

As NitroX says, hot weather and wet weather are hardly new things - but I'd like to know what caused this:

http://www.theaustralian.com.a...91v9q3-1226242701775

As business commentators have asked, what chance the company could have and should have have warned the market earlier?