We keep hearing of how no one is allowed to comment on the New Zealand outfitter industry. How as it is all legal, no one can comment on whether it is sporting or ethical to do what is now common practice in Kiwiland.

A challenge to the people claiming that above.

Please name any outfitters in New Zealand who only hunt free range from wild stocks, and do not allow shooting from a chopper, or spotting for a quick drop-off for a shot from the chopper.

To make it easier, a second category, hunts behind high-wire but the "pens", "paddocks" have to be no smaller than 3000 acres, and game animals released at least three months before the season (which hardly makes them wild BTW ) with no "supplementary top ups".


I used to know of two in the country. Perhaps ....

There are a lot of oufitters that have free range hunting 10,000+ acre sheep stations with no fence over 3 feet high,that said i think any and all outfitters will do what a client ask's for as they are paying the bill.

I have not hunted with him,but know guys that have hunted Tahr/Chamois with him and don't think he would let clients shoot from a chopper his name Croc Adams outfitter in the south island.

Shooting from a chopper must come down to the pilot too,not just the outfitter.

T-P

Thanks for the replies.

As I might have mentioned to you another time, I may make some of these guys a free offer.

New Zealand has got to be one of the world's true hunting paradises, except for what has crept in the back door, to cater for the "trophy by any means" demand ....

Nitrox: You go with me and there will be no shooting from helicopters, or behind walls or fences. We spot from the valley floor, then hightail it to the tahr zone.

But you would have to keep up the pace: its straight up hill for three hours, at two to three hours a thousand meters climbing, with full hunting packs. The prize can be a 13 inch tahr, or a blown stalk if the wind shifts. then its back down to start over on the next one. I can only do two stalks a day that way.

Jameister

NitroX as Top predator has said most outfitters in our country will do what the client wishes us to do.
That is a simple fact of business. Now sadly, you are almost the exception in that you are well aware of what else is available and you are by the sounds of things fit enough and have time on your side to do it the hard way.

On average 90% of our hunters take there tahr doing it the hard way. I'm proud of the effort everyone of them puts in and as they all come off the hill with a bull its a great feeling of achievement for all of those involved.

You are also very well aware that NOT all hunters are able to successfully hunt this way, that is where the "other" options are put into place. Its personal to the hunter.

We hunt on a property that covers 220,000 acres behind Twizel, all wild animals that with skilled and knowledgable management allows us to hunt in excess of 30 trophy bulls a season. Several yrs ago when we first started hunting this property we figured 15 bulls a year would pull it up. Now we think closer to 45 bulls can be taken. issue now is expanding the client base to meet supply.

We also have a high fenced area on the property and will use the chopper if its requested. Which i quess brings me back to the question you ask about an outfitter that won't use a chopper and hunt high fence. Your question is to broad.

I can say the same thing for Stags chamois and fallow along with pigs,goats and sheep, 90% of our hunting is wild animals. 90% of our clients couldn't give a damn, as long as its a good hunt and no surprises are pulled along the way.

I challenge you to find me 30 clients a year that will pay 5- 10K to hunt the way you choose to do, I'd then probably have to take you on as a guide and pay you a commission BUT the cold hard facts of the matter are I guide as my only source of income and its a job I have.

I know Croc pretty well, we hunt the same properties from time to time and both live in Wanaka .

Highlander.....I enjoyed your well thought out response. My knowledge on hunting in New Zealand is minimal, but thanks to forums such as this, I am able to get some insight into the hunting situation there. I also enjoyed your web site which has a lot of interesting information and photos. I may see you in a year or two as a change to hunting Africa.

Highlander,

NZ$1500/hr Heli charter rate,is that for turbine?

Nitrox

Your really dont like NZer's do you. This thread started looking to attack New Zealand, NZ hunters and NZ guides. You seem to be popping up in thread after threat expounding the same argument.

What caused the big chip on your shoulder. Did some NZ hunter outshoot you one day. Ive heard double rifles arent very accurate.

Or did NZ deny you a visa as an undesirable when you tried to come and hunt over here.

We are not all in-bred yokels down here, and Deliverance was not based on some down country run down in-bred New Zealand backwater (tho make sure your camoflage doesnt resemble a sheep, or you might find yourself facing the same fate as Ned Beatty). By the way, gumboots are the footwear of choice down here (I can reccommend a suitable size if you wish).

Outfitter is a very american term by the way. Ussually NZer's just go down to the local outdoor's shop and buy what they want rather than have some salesman tells them they 'need'.

But then NZer's have always had an independant outlook on life, and like to do things for themselves and make their own decisions.

I presume from your photo you shoot doubles in South Africa. Dont bother bringing that to NZ, unless you use a guide who knows what they are doing and can put you 20m from some deaf, blind and stupid deer, the only thing youll need a double for is as a conversation starter on the relative merits of various types of hunting rifle.

You may get close enough in a high wire pen tho. Im sure you can arrange that for yourself as you seem to have done a lot of research on the topic. Dont forget to take the tag out of the ear before the magazine front cover photo shoot.

Where are you from by the way. If you are Australian, please feel free, NZer's and Ausi's take the piss out of each other all the time.

From your posts tho, I get the impression you are some wanabe african hunter who hunts with guides armed with big caliber stopper rifles in case you stuff up. You wont need that here tho. The environment is much more dangerous than the animals.

NZ is my home and Im proud to live here and proud of the people I call fellow NZer's. I have only admiration for people who make a living doing what they love, guiding hunters in the NZ outdoors. If you are an Ausi, feel free to slag us off (we do the same to them). My mother is Australian, and Ive lived there and like the contry and the people. I would love to hunt buffalo in the northern territory.

If not, visit NZ, see what it's like and then form an opinion. Otherwise why the hell do you feel the need to judge and attack us.

Anyway, attack me personally all you like (you seem to have taken a dislike to Muzza who has a common NZ live and let live type attitude). I really dont give a stuff. But please come to NZ and exprience the place before you judge us as a country and a people.

Its ussually hard to offend me, but you seem to have managed it.

Anyway, hope you have a good life and manage to shoot a few more endangered species so you can hang their skins on your wall and brag about how brave you were facing down that dangerous charging animal with a highly trained and experienced guide armed with a huge stopper rifle as backup.

Smudge

You'd be better asking your fellow aussies about guiding services.
I don't know of any NZ hunters that use guides and methods that you suggest are commonplace.
It does happen but 99.9 % of the time it is foreigners like yourself doing it.

Smudge

You need to actually read the comments and questions.

Then you will actually be able to answer the questions perhaps.

Your very long personal attack only says you can not actually answer the question asked in the first post (see below). Personal attacks only show the attacker has no answers.

ie

Please name any outfitters in New Zealand who only hunt free range from wild stocks, and do not allow shooting from a chopper, or spotting for a quick drop-off for a shot from the chopper.

By the way back in 1993 the answer was only two outfitters in the whole of NZ when I last hunted there.

If you are only able to make personal attacks it is probably better to ignore you as much as possible.

BTW you have five posts and four out of five are only on these subjects ie canned hunting???

Highlander

Thank you for your comments.

I suppose a question might be if NZ (and Australia BTW) enacted game laws enforcing fair chase standards or if the SCI did not permit registration of 'trophies' shot from the door of a chopper or a tiny deer farm pen, or a farm stag released a few days before, would the 'trade' decrease?

Probably. I think your comments reflect a little sadly on the international hunting scene - ie securing a 'trophy' seems to be the only real objective.

Good luck to the guys that choose to do the fair chase way.

Again thanks for the comments. Your comments and Top Predators in another thead a while back are probably the only ones which actually tried to answer the questions, or make reasonable comments.

Anyway unless someone can name any other outfitters that fit the criteria I'm pretty much done with this thread and the purpose of this thread.

Nitro i`m in your corner mate


I have moved home and dont have a computer i can access long enough to add at length my own words...thank fuck for that say`s the Muzzlewump people..