i got to thinking if the max range is 200 yards a 9 shot marlin 45/70 with 350 grain flat points would be one hell of a culling rifle it would bleed the animals out much faster and possibly make it so that you wouldnt have to shoot so much.


also a 10 shot 44 mag marlin lever is avail able loaded with 320 grain cast flat points it would be more effective than a 30-30 and have more diameter behind it. plus bulk ammo can be gotten for it extremly cheap 1500-2000 round absolutly no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
hey matt i didnt know you were a memeber here....... i cant wait till i can come over.

i have 3-4 members here that are interested with me but it wont be till next year that we can make it most of every one already has trips booked for this year but every ones schedual is open for 2008.

so we will have between 4-6 people

Yeah - you can't get away from me!

Four is a good maximum number...

Cheers for now
Matt

what do you think of the lever action idea.......the larger diameter bullet would definitly bleed them out faster and the lever actions i can get will hold 9-10 rounds.

marlin lever action 26" barrel 9 shots

marlin 44 mag 10 shots.

marlin 30-30 6 shots.

You better check about Australia firearms laws,i'm not sure about lever action there maybe a magazine limits.

lever actions are leagal there is a guy that posted on the first page of this thread that uses one and he is from austrailia.

ialso called matt grame 15 minutes ago in asutrailia asking him what he thought of the idea.

Lever and pump rifles are OK here... no problems with mag capacity either...

Hello Matt,
It is good to see you on this forum. Hopefully, 700 Nitro can be convinced of the REAL situation in a cull hunt. There is absolutely no way that he can bring enough of his own ammo to last the 10 days. He will be short-changing himself if shooting a cartridge other than 308 Win. or 30-06, which you stock in camp.

Best Regards,
Geoff

iv already talked with matt... geoff.....he said give enought time we could order what i need.

or i could possibly send enough ammo to a distributer or gun shop over there for matt to pick up.

geoff i am trying to make the culling as effeciant as possible and shooting every animal two and three times isnt very effective.

quote:

well i just took delivery of my stainless laminate left handed ruger 300 win mag.

quote:

i am trying to make the culling as effeciant as possible and shooting every animal two and three times isnt very effective.

If it requires 2 or so shots from a 30-06 to put these animals down, then a 300 win mag will make little difference in effeciancy, if any at all.

You should have gone to the 338 win mag if you seriously wanted a cartridge more effecient at putting these animals down than a 308/30-06

tumbo i brought it back and got a 45/70 with the 26" barrel. 9 round magazine.

i will use the 30-06 to finish animals off and for long range work.

also he was useing 150 grain loads wich ar a bit light for the job going to a 180 or 200 would work far better.

Excellent choice .700.............load up heaps of Rem 405 gr softs at 1850 fps and you will be set !!

I have a leupold 2.5x compact on my Marlin and love it !!

i called a custom ammo loader in the usa and i can get 1000 round of 45/70 with the 400 grain speer jaketed flat point at 1800fps for 1380$

alot easyer than trying to load 1000+ round my self.......now all i have to do is start the paperwork on getting it to austrailia.

quote:

30 rapid fire shots out of a 300WM will have it smoking hot - destroys barrels, melts synthetic stocks, quite unpleasant really - not to mention what it does to accuracy while you are shooting. When we get onto a big mob of donkeys we want to put them all down and not let any get away to become vehicle shy. On average (over a week or a season) we take three shots per animal to dispatch them (D.E.A.D. - never going past a moving animal) so you can see how you might use 100-200 rounds per day if you get onto some big mobs. That might seem like a lot of rounds per animal but we dont exactly have time to sit around waiting for them to bleed-out
(the chest shot ones) and those donkeys and horses sure take some dying. Also it isnt always possible to get good head-shots on moving animals.

Dittos on the above!

High Volumn Cull hunting is to big game shooters what sporting clays is to wing shooters. That is the best possible practice/learning expereince there is!

I culled with Matt's mentor several years ago, Can't wait to go back with the new boss! It was quite an experience. We shot 348 animals in 3 days. Wounding or less than totally dead is not an option. So even neck shot mortally wounded animals were given a "coup de gras" thus I fired better than 400 rounds.

Donkeys and horses succomb well to a 308 or 7mm decent quality ammo. (note; don't bother with premium bullets or rapid expanding ballistic tip or silver tip stuff! The first are expensive and the latter are not adaquate.)

The magnum got blistering hot way too quick. I used a Winchester Coyote in 308 for most since it would be an inexpensive candidate for rebarrelling if it shot out. Turns out it's still a 600 yard gun!

Repeat; "Culling is a great learning/practice secession for big game hunters"

It is a target rich envioroment so long distance shots in controlable situations will present themselves. Don't be afraid to learn how well you can shoot and how well a long shot will kill or a raking shot will sit an animal down for a quick finish. Here you have an oportunity to find out that you can make a running shot and quickly recover for multiple shots!

Camels on the other are big and tough. A 416 thumps them and I'm sure a 375 is fine. If you are limited on space I'd look to borrowing a big gun for the occasional camels and take 2 308's or 06's. It would be bad to break a firing pin and be on the side lines or shooting up 375 ammo a handful at a time!


Mike

can three guns be imported by sportsmen. my niebour asked me..... to tell you the truth i have no clue.....

700 Nitro,
Those of us who have culled donks,and brumbies know that shooting an animal two or three times IS the most efficient. One of the culling legends, Willie H, who passed on in 1999; used a modified Rem. model 700 to accept M-14 20 rd. magazines. He carried 8 loaded magazines. When approaching a "mob" of donks, he would rapidly place a shot in as many as possible to slow them down, and return to the first to finished the animal and then to the rest. He also used a 22 mag. S&W to finish the animal with head shots. Willie always put down more than twice the donks that I did. Certainly, we had our share of spectacular one shot kills. However, donks are tough for size.

As Matt stated, two to three shots per animal average during the season is very realistic. You may enjoy an exceptional day like I did when I was able to put down 115. Fortunately for me, my partner's new Swarovski scope failed, and I was able to use his ammo after running out earlier in the day.

Culling is to eliminate as many as possible expediently. The approach and perspective is often the reverse of trophy hunting. You take out every animal possible as to not educate the other animals in the greater area.

Regardless what rifle and caliber used, you will enjoy it immensely and return a substantially better marksman. Hunt Australia's cull hunt is the best practical shooting school available.

Geoff

700,

there is also a Mob that does it called "Ammo to your door" That are already in Australia may pay to give them a ring and get it done here and freighted to Matts. Save paperwork etc. ??

Lot's of good ideas that's for sure.

Thanks for the tip PC about the ammo delivery joint.

I actually like the idea of the the 45-70 with good solid handloads and a 30-06 for the longer shots and as a second gun. Very handy for when the mystery buffalo show up (not that often but we can and do shoot them).

I had one hunterlast year carrying a 450Marlin bolt gun (I wont name brand names but you can use your imagination) when we came across a buffalo for the taking. The 450 did a splendid job with one shot with a Triple Shock. Lucky it did because the bull was coming our way and the gun JAMMED - again!!

This type of shooting (the culling) sure sorts out the 'chaff from the hay' when it comes to equipment. I see lots of very flash, expensive gear fail miserably...

PS - I am working on the camel situaton for 2008...

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
PS - I am working on the camel situaton for 2008...

Matt

Talking about camels and earlier comments. Would you agree or disagree that normal medium calibres are more than adequate for camels?

What is the purpose of culling donkeys, camels and such? do they not have any natural enemys?

Asking cause I don't know, we don't have any camels left in Arizona and most of the donkeys are in government.
by the way I heard boonerangs are making a come back

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
What is the purpose of culling donkeys, camels and such? do they not have any natural enemys?

Asking cause I don't know, we don't have any camels left in Arizona and most of the donkeys are in government.
by the way I heard boonerangs are making a come back

Yes their natural enemies are lions, leopards and tigers .... BUT ...not in Australia!!

Seriously - the adult animals do not have any enemies except 'crazy cullers'!!

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
PS - I am working on the camel situaton for 2008...

Matt

Talking about camels and earlier comments. Would you agree or disagree that normal medium calibres are more than adequate for camels?

OK - To be honest Nitro I dont have an opinion because I have never shot one or seen one shot. We havent had access to camel country since I started with the company but I am looking to change that - sooner rather than later!!

Everyone NEEDS a camel!!

From what I understand the bulls are just a bit too big for the normal 30's SO... a 300mag + heavy projectiles or 338WM or bigger will do a better job. Thats NOT to say a 30-06 wont kill one, we all know you can do it and with smaller cals too.

It's like the buffalo - it's all sweet till 'push comes to shove' and you dont hit them square and then you wish you did have a BIG gun... "tell my wife I love heeerrrr - splat!"

I suspect a big wounded bull camel could chew me up and spit me out... Those things are fricken HUGE!!

I can see the headline now "PH killed by camel" - what an epitaph!!

Cheers now mate
Matt

Matt i have sent you a PM about cull hunts.

Could you tell us/me more about these culls please has i have nothing booked for 2008 yet.

Thanks James

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
can three guns be imported by sportsmen. my niebour asked me..... to tell you the truth i have no clue.....

Nitro - yes you can import three guns OK. You just need to explain on the application why you need three. That is generally "we will be shooting large numbers of animals of different sizes and the third rifle is for a spare in case oneof them breaks-down" Some of our shooter bring three - especially when they are testing rifles for manufacturers (we get a lot of that).

Cheers
Matt

Matt

I haven't shot one either BTW. A mate shoots a lot of them as he has sussed out some desert land somewhere where it is legally open slather. However he keeps it a big secret.

Anyway he has said they aren't hard to put down, an d uses the like of a 6.5, .270 and 7mm. However he also hunted his buffalo a couple years ago with his 6.5mm.

I am keen to do a trip, but we are talking about the Simpson Desert here, and the four wheel driving would be a bigger challenge than the hunting and my true desert experience is limited. Lots of inexperienced four-wheel-drivers loose their vehicles doing it or give up before getting far enough in. I think joining a 4WD club convoy might not work when the rifle barrels get pointed out the windows.

Actually as a teenager I used to hunt goats in the Northern Flinders and the properties there had wild camels. My hunting rifle at the time, a .222 wasn't up to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
What is the purpose of culling donkeys, camels and such? do they not have any natural enemys?

Asking cause I don't know, we don't have any camels left in Arizona and most of the donkeys are in government.
by the way I heard boonerangs are making a come back

Rolland,

Our gov't has the attitude that anything imported is bad and everything native is good. So most imported feral species are open, no limits, no seasons etc. Also there are hundreds of thousands of donkeys in some parts of Oz, we have the only wild camels in the world (they are stock everywhere else).

The camels were imported to work the building of the Ghan railway line, telegraph lines, etc, along with Afghan, Paki and similar handlers. When the camels were no longer needed many were just released.

Horses or brumbies as well escaped and can be in pest proportions, but a lot of people don't like them shot (greenies anyway).

Goats and pigs of course too, from old mining camps, farm escapees etc.

Rabbits, hares, foxes etc too. Deer in many parts of Australia can be shot as pests too.

NitroX
I thought that might be the case as we have somewhat of the same problem in parts of the southwest with burros and horses, they were turned loose from the miners in past years. They destroy the vegetation as well as drive native species off the land. We can't hunt them as they are protected. Guess the greenies will never learn what happens when nonnative animals are introduced where there are no natural enemies. So they round them up and give them away to people to make pets out of, dog food would be a better end.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
700,

there is also a Mob that does it called "Ammo to your door" That are already in Australia may pay to give them a ring and get it done here and freighted to Matts. Save paperwork etc. ??

matt could you give these people a call they may be able to solve some ammo problems with visating hunters and they can of course get custom ammo for your self.

if they can load me the stuff i need i will be good for about 1500 rounds of 45/70......it will save me lots of paper work.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Matt

A mate shoots a lot of them as he has sussed out some desert land somewhere where it is legally open slather. However he keeps....

'Open Slather' -I find that hard to believe. Open slather if you dont get caught! Either you have written permission or not, that's the bottom line. I dont know of any public land loopholes in SA or NT - maybe he does??

Not that I know him but I think your mate with the 6.5 would shoot an elephant in the brain with his rifle and say "see that wasn't hard!"

I'll let you know what I come up with re: the camels.

Cheers mate
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Matt

A mate shoots a lot of them as he has sussed out some desert land somewhere where it is legally open slather. However he keeps....

'Open Slather' -I find that hard to believe. Open slather if you dont get caught! Either you have written permission or not, that's the bottom line. I dont know of any public land loopholes in SA or NT - maybe he does??

I'm not going into details on a public forum, but it is 100% legal. And yes I do know of them and they aren't "loopholes".

This whole donkey slaughter sounds like a job for an AR-10.

You'll be able to lay everything in the herd down, and keep your shoulder from becoming too soft.

MG

at first i thought the same thing a dpms 308 heavy barrel with 20-30 round clips.......that would be neet.

I call donkeys poor mans zebras ,never shot a zebra ,but i saw a donkey take 2 470s in the chest and the thing was still on its feet until it got an 8x68 in the head ,i would hardly call them a game animal, they just look at you while you shoot them ,yeah i know they are a pest but i didnt get much satisfaction shooting the damn things ,bit like shooting domestic cattle

Yes they can be pretty stoopid - especially when they havent been shot up in that area. Once you shoot some out of a mob the mob gets much more wary. I know I let a few hundred get away last season in a particular area we were shooting.

There was a large lush 'green pick' in a burnt out section, near a big permanent waterhole and hundreds of donkeys were coming in to it by the end of the season. Every day we would get 30-50 and the place was just a sea of dead donkey carcases. By the end we would approach the herds slowly in the truck but you would only get a handful because the rest would head for the hills, sometimes just at the sound of the vehicle.

Yes, generally approaching them in a vehicle is fairly easy - try stalking them with a bow though!!

I guess there are lots of different situations too!!

Cheers
Matt

Re; Culling

I have read all of Craig Boddington's stuff for years and I noted that shortly after he did his first cull hunt he changed from talking about the shots he didn't take to how he was able to make a running shot, or a raking shot on a quickly departing animal and then a quick follow up, etc. I asked him about that last year in Reno and he admitted that it had definitely made him a more versatile shooter. I felt the same way about my own experience.

I'd say that it depends on how you go about it and how you set your priorities but if you want an experience and challenge and some practice in a target rich environment culling can provide it.

BTW my partner and I brought in 6 rifles between us without any problem.

Mike

I lived in the Northern Territory for nearly 2 years. I have shot a large number of horses and pigs. A 30-30 like a marlin 336 is easily adequate. You can shoot it day in day out without getting fatigued and it's definately enough gun.

As long as your an ethical hunter and place your shots correctly you won't need a larger rifle. None of the animals you mentioned are thick skined, although I haven't shot camels I doubt there much thicker than horses. In the end it's what you want to shoot with. Bring a couple of rifles and use a different one different days to mix it up a bit.

When I go up north this year I'll be primarily using my 458lott with 300gr projectiles for everything except buff which I'll be using the 500gr'ers. It all comes down to preference