Are their any outiftters that still specialise or do good free range sika hunts?

I would appreciate any names. Thanks.

This may start a shit fight.

The best place for Sika with an outfitter would be Ngamatea,which is a huge Sheep station,as far as i know all their hunts are free range.

They may have the odd Sika behind wire,i really don't know.

Bruce Bates +64 21459495

hunt&fish@ngamatea.co.nz

Neil Philpott would be a good option too,i don't his phone,if you do a search "Neil philpott sika hunting new Zealand" i'm you will find a lot of information about him.

TP

Why is that station the best option in your opinion?

Does it abutt onto National Park land?

Which National Parks and forests are the famous ones for North Island Sika?

Which ones are open to "self-guided" access?

Sorry for all the questions, but I was keen to hunt Sika a long lon time ago and have re-developed a keen interest perhaps for next year. Either guided (but I doubt I will be able to afford it next year) or self-guided for a few days.

Kaweka and kaimanawa forest parks are where they are and you can hunt there whenever you want. No need for a guide just drive up clements road and wander into the bush you should find a few fairly easy.

Does Tom Condon still hunt?

John

sika are found mainly in the Kaweka ranges that are accessed from the Hawkes Bay area on the eastern side of the North Island. You also find them in parts of the kaimanawa ranges in the centre of the North Island.

TP's suggestion on Ngamatea station is based on the large size of the place and its location in the middle of the best sika areas.

you can access sika country in many places for a self-guided hunt , you can walk into the bush or ther are many helicopter/fixed wing operators who can deliver you to hunting areas . I am not advocating that you do the aerial delivery thing , but it does save a lot of walking and when time may be limited it makes sense . And no , I am not going to pursue any discussion on the morals or ethics of walking versus flying. You asked for information , thats what I am offering you .

As far as guides go there are a lot of them , although they dont all advertise in hunting journals here . TP has mentioned Neil Philpott - neilphilpott@actrix.co.nz - he is regarded as a leader in the sika field.

You might try heli-sika who offer guided hunts and chopper transport - helisika@xtra.co.nz , or Alex Gale - outdoors@paradise.net.nz - who guides and has many years experience , and Tim Buma ( TrackersNZ ) speaks highly of Gerald Fleurty in Taupo . You will have to Google him , but he is a recognised hunting and fishing guide. there are others but that will set you in some sort of direction.

For self-guided hunts you will need transport , a good map , preferably a gps , a Dept of Conservation permit to enter any of the National Park/ Recreational Hunting Areas and probably most importantly a companion who has some experience in the type of country you will be traversing. Getting a copy of Neil Philpotts sika hunting dvd and learning the techiques required wouldnt go amiss either .

Is that any help? Maybe not specific enough in some areas but I have tried to keep it general at this stage . If you have specific queries throw them back and someone from here will fill in the gaps .I do have to add that whilst I have hunted the little whistling ba***rds I have yet to actually shoot one .......

And sika are only found in the North Island.

It will come down to what you want,a top trophy or a represntative head.

There maybe better places to go than Ngamatea,but it is where i would go,as its free range.

Yes Ngamatea does back onto state forest.

You can walk into one of the national parks or fly in and fly in to a private block,try this website it will give you some idea of price http://www.airchartertaupo.co.nz/available06.htm

Ask about Sika hunting on the fishnhunt forum.

If you are here in first week in March or anytime May/June stay for a few extra days ill take you duck shooting if your interested.

they have also been found in the ruahines too. but the Kawekas and kaimanawas will have a lot more sika in them, the ruahines are more red deer based.

Ngamatea would be a good place to start I think. not sure what they charge but they are all free range animals that have been largely culled for bad antler development and cross breeding, plus they get much better grass than the ones in the wild and are somewhat more protected and *possibly* easier to hunt.

but then there is self guided and it is free!

you will find a bit more info at this site

http://www.nzsika.co.nz/index.html

They are not easy hunting, most of the public land in the Kaimanawas ranges is "rugged" thick bush, and requires good bush stalking skills to get close enough to hear one, let alone see one. Sika are probably considered by most NZ hunters to be the most difficult deer to stalk.

It often takes multiple trips into an area before you start getting onto them on public land.

Cheers

Grant

NITRO
Brian Harrie...he s the best of the best

regards daniel

Quite a few years back, my girlfriend and I flew into a block (Mangamingi?) from Taupo. There was an A-frame hut on the block where we stayed for 5-6 days (bring gear to catch mice, there are a few in the huts...).

I did not manage to take a Sika, but I still think back on that trip with fond memories. In spite of frequent rain, it was just lovely territory and you had the feeling of being all by yourself (except for the odd poacher, perhaps... ?).

I'm not much of a bush stalker, so it is probably no surprise I did not connect. I did manage to sneak up on a Sika which had its head down feeding. I sat down about 10 yds from it and waited for it to show its head. When it did, it was a spike, and since I was not hunting for meat, I was not going to shoot. If I had wanted to, I'm not actually sure I could have, as my proximity to the stag made him aware of me immediately as his head came up, and he did not stick around for long...

Later, I could have shot a doe, but as I mentioned we were not hunting for meat.

We heard the sika call (sounds much like a wapiti), but did not manage to locate any of the bush bound stags. A local Kiwi later suggested the best way to hunt bush stags was to hang up a radio (playing) and wait until the stags came round to investigate. He refused to be called on the station to tune into, though...

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
NITRO
Brian Harrie...he s the best of the best

regards daniel

Great idea. I would like to catch up at least.

My preference would be to hire a guide for a "first" trip to get an idea of the lay of the land, tips etc. Perhaps future trips self-guided. But I think I will be very broke by next year due to some adverse weather conditions in my area this year.

Mickey

Tom Condon had a reputation as the "best" sika guide back in the 1980's. I too wonder if he is still guiding?

Muzza

Thanks for the comments. I never had have any problems with using helicopters as "taxis" to get one into hunting country. Especially as I'm a fat bastard now.

TP

Thanks also for the comments.

I'd be trophy hunting and looking to offload venison onto someone who wanted it. Realistically I would be looking for a "trophy" representative head (or better of course), as shooting something smaller would achieve anything except maybe a flat-skin and some venison.

I couldn't make it anytime from February to April and maybe early May would be out, but the rest of May, and perhaps June is very possible. If I can get over it would be great to meet up for a beer, meal or some duck shooting.

Paul, NZVarminter and mho

Thanks for the comments. I fully understand Sika is very difficult to take, and if hunting self-guided realistically wouldn't expect much from one trip.

***

Some comments and more questions:

I will check out the tips, websites, searches, and DVD suggested.

When hunting red stag with Harre we discussed Sika and he was very insistent very quiet clothing be worn, eg "wooly" polar fleece, as even my outer layer cotton, and inner gore-tex layer jacket was too noisy in his opinion. Comments?

Do Sika have a defined "roar"? When is it?

I also understood from some outfitters, one way they got better success on sika was to hunt them right at the end of the velvet period when they were in more open country. They rubbed the velvet off the antlers for trophies. Probably velveted antlers with hard tips. Any comments on this? I'm not making any judgements just wondering what Kiwis think at home.

Someone mentioned hunting with a local the first time. Why is this? Is this for safety reasons, local terrain, ... ? Or because is always better to have two in remote regions - because of unexpected events etc?

Thanks. I hope others are finding the thread just as interesting.

yeah this is interesting all right, sounds like you'll have to get a guide and go private land

John
the idea of going with someone with local knowledge is because they will have the knowledge of the area that you wont . Thats why people hunt with guides anywhere in the world. The NZ bush is not like hunting in Africa or the Northern Territory , it is very easy to get lost in our mountains - people do it all the time and many of them die as a result. It truly is bad for the tourist industry if too many foreigners come to grief in the bush , and the cost of retrieving your body is not insignificant either . Plus the smell scares the deer away.....

Hunt with someone who knows the area and the species first time out , then return with some knowledge and have a go on your own. Particularly if you are after a trophy first time out - the guides know where to go , its their livelyhood after all.

The sika roar is much the same as for reds - usually April/May but dependant on temperature and climate to iniate. It is a defined season.
Sika and reds interbreed quite happily so dont be surprised to see something that doesnt look true to type .

Sika hunting is pretty nerve-wracking at times - they are pretty wary and the country they live in is usually tangled thick scrub that they move through easily but humans dont . Their senses are way better than yours or mine , and they have the habit of whistling at you to scare the crap out of you. They are inquisitive , but also very flighty if alarmed. At least this is my observation from the little hunting I have done. Others will no doubt have differing and greater experience

The observation on clothing and noise is pretty right - you need to be able to move very quietly and the polar flece-type gear lets you do that. Camo type gear is ok but mostly silent gear in muted colours is fine .

Hope thats filled a few more gaps , probably raised a few more issues too . Back to you

Right so lets get to the interesting stuff,caliber and bullet weigh for Sika

300 magnum 180 partition would be my pick

quote:

Originally posted by TOP_PREDATOR:
Right so lets get to the interesting stuff,caliber and bullet weigh for Sika

300 magnum 180 partition would be my pick

Why not ask madness he`s shot plenty of them!

For what its worth, my suggestion would be to contact either Neil Philpot or Greg Duley. Both are top guides that really know the art of sika hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
For what its worth, my suggestion would be to contact either Neil Philpot or Greg Duley. Both are top guides that really know the art of sika hunting.

I think that Greg Duley does a bit of guiding for Ngamatea. You should ask if you can use his 7mm 404 ! that'd be such fun.

Here is Gerald Fleurty's contact details.He is based out of Taupo.

gerald@wildsidehunting.com ph +64 7374 8080

quote:

Originally posted by TOP_PREDATOR:
Right so lets get to the interesting stuff,caliber and bullet weigh for Sika

300 magnum 180 partition would be my pick

TOP, don't undergun yourself, take that 375 Happy & Happy of yours and some 300grain solids down the Kaimanawa, it might be just enough gun.
The Sika is a fearsome wee beasty.

i'd just like to clear up a few things first as some of the stuff that has been posted isn't ture

sika inhabit the [u]hole[/u] Kaimanawa range not just parts of it
there are good numbers in the kawekas but you can get more sika/red X's in there as there are a few more reds about (shit heads though)

Namatea dosn't boarder any public land it is all private blocks around its boundery

NitroX the first couple od weeks of march when the stags are hardning up are a great time to get one in the open country and they start to roar well from the first week in april untill mid may

you will pay $5000 NZ to shot a stag on Namatea
they are very easy to shoot and not much of a challange due to the open nature of the property and the large number of aminals on the place

i wouldn't recomend you try and do it yourself you might get lucky and nail a stag but i'd put money on it you wouldn't

use a guide or hunt with a local for your first trip your chances of success will be much higher

they are very cunning to hunt on public land and in the bush proper but i would put both rusa and sambar ahead of them in this department

Tom Condon no longer has his block and is out of the game

any of the guides listed above will do a good job in getting you a good head

i have my own lease block to hunt them on
it holds good numbers but i couldn't garentee you a trophy head as the antler quality isn't that great on the block

heads like this are what my block holds





you would shoot much better heads on somewhere like Namatea

there are other places i hunt that hold and produce much better antlers

if you have any other questions about hunting them just ask i know a bit about hunting them

quote:

Originally posted by MADNESS:
i'd just like to clear up a few things first as some of the stuff that has been posted isn't ture

sika inhabit the [u]hole[/u] Kaimanawa range not just parts of it
there are good numbers in the kawekas but you can get more sika/red X's in there as there are a few more reds about (shit heads though)

Namatea dosn't boarder any public land it is all private blocks around its boundery

NitroX the first couple od weeks of march when the stags are hardning up are a great time to get one in the open country and they start to roar well from the first week in april untill mid may

you will pay $5000 NZ to shot a stag on Namatea
they are very easy to shoot and not much of a challange due to the open nature of the property and the large number of aminals on the place

i wouldn't recomend you try and do it yourself you might get lucky and nail a stag but i'd put money on it you wouldn't

use a guide or hunt with a local for your first trip your chances of success will be much higher

they are very cunning to hunt on public land and in the bush proper but i would put both rusa and sambar ahead of them in this department

Tom Condon no longer has his block and is out of the game

any of the guides listed above will do a good job in getting you a good head

i have my own lease block to hunt them on
it holds good numbers but i couldn't garentee you a trophy head as the antler quality isn't that great on the block

heads like this are what my block holds





you would shoot much better heads on somewhere like Namatea

there are other places i hunt that hold and produce much better antlers

if you have any other questions about hunting them just ask i know a bit about hunting them

One of the reasons Ngamatea heads are better is because a lot of it has been cropped, and the rest that is in grass will be of a higher quality than public places! Fresh green fertilised grass will grow a better head any day compared to tussock. not to forget the fact they are protected and are well managed. and i do know that some of ngamatea is tussock and isnt farmed.

Feed quality is one of the main factors deer are larger in the body and grow a larger head on private land.

they still have a number of crap heads on the place which are offered as cull syags for around $600 each

but you are right about the feed quality producing big heads it is a big factor

Madness,

I hunted sika in Ireland and never saw anything as good as the bigger head in your post! Anyone should be delighted to take a Sika that size.

Hawkeye47

i never realised how small they can be in the body until i saw the one in your top pic Arron..bloody tiny little fella he appears to be as there isnt any pic distortion like the pics the "guides" take for their clients..maybe looking at sambar all the time makes him small but i thought they may have been at least fallow buck sized.

here is a little taste for you JH...forget the viagra that noise would give any of us a fat haha!

http://www.mtuk.org/content/mammal/sound/sika_deer.wav

it depends on the area you are hunting not all jap stags are that small

there are a couple of strains of sika here

i have the smaller type in my block as you can see 35kg for a stag on th hook would be about max
here is another pic to show the small body size of the stags in there




other area hold bigger animals

i shot this 9ptr on another private block and he would have been closer to 50kg on the hook



and a mate shot this 6ptr in the Kaimanawas and he would have been over 50kg on the hook