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Why do they call some of these hunts cull? The prices are within 10-15% of trophy hunts, you shoot non-trophy animals, and you get nothing but pictures for your money. Want hides or head, come up with more $$$. Anything worth shooting is quite a bit more $$$. I am just curious, because it seems endemic to A/NZ outfitters. At any given time, there are several here. Rich | ||
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Demand and supply with a small group controlling access and infrastructure. Someone will pay for the limited opportunities. Local Aussie friends get great deals at 25% or less but they are in the know / inner circle and can respond at short notice. I do not have a problem with that - business is business. What really bugs me is that some Aussie guides now try to make US tipping culture the norm in Oz where there is no tipping as such. The same happens in NZ - huge trophy fees for farm raised red stags with unreal antlers - AND tips expected! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Idaho, I'm not sure if you have seen any cull hunts specific to NZ, but the situation here is that one can hunt for any game animal on any public land which include National Parks for no cost. Permits to hunt are free, there is no tag system and there are no government (wildlife department) fees on animals. In fact there is no restrictions on what sex, age, how many and times of year for hunting our game animals. Game animals on private land are also not subject to government fees or any other restrictions other than what the land owner may impose. This is maybe where cull hunts could take place. As there is no government costs involved the land owner or outfitter who is permitted to operate on the land by the land owner will have costs that are the same whether hunting cull animals or trophies i.e. they do not have to pass on any money they receive to the government so all their costs are the same for either hunt hence apart from paying a premium for a trophy animal your cull hunt won't be much cheaper. PS: yes I forgot about that shit tipping system may it eventually be made illegal, the scourge of society and plain greediness. | |||
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I'm guessing that the OP is referring to the water buffalo cull hunts that are on offer in the other forum Hunts thread. If I was going to outlay that sort of money I would be wanting something more than a bunch of pictures and a whole lot of insect bites for my dollars too. ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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I can understand the financial aspect, but these hunts approach the pricing on African trophy hunts. | |||
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I've done a number of cull hunts, trophy hunts, safaris, cull and trophy combined, varmint, predator, and the normal combination meat hunting and trophy that I have as a local/resident in a great hunting area. Its starting to hover around 40 years worth of it now. What I have found is that if something doesn't appeal to you, don't do it. If it peaks your interest best give t a go. In all hunting; on some level, the hunter is trying to turn a profit on the deal. There are true meat hunters that can look you in the eye and say that "you can't eat horns" and mean it. He's as happy with a gift animal as one he takes himself. Probably happier because he doesn't have to go get one himself. He probably throws horns away and can't wrap his brain around why someone would want them. Naturally since he doesn't want them, someone who does must have a negative motivation like pride or the desire to brag or show off. He is the guy that asks you how much meat you brought back from a safari and is dumfounded when you can't bring any. The next guy might be fixated on meat, but enjoys the process and doesn't mind getting a big set of horns once in a while. He doesn't get them very often, because he can't walk away from the "profit" of a animal standing in front of him. Although he can appreciate trophies he's not sure of what to make of the trophy hunter that wouldn't shoot the animals he does. He may go as far as passing up a few if he is confident that there will be others. The trophy hunter can by-pass smaller animals easily, because he doesn't want them at all. Our meat hunter can't understand that at all, and our second guy sort of understands it but doesn't really feel it. The trophy hunter absolutely can't wrap his brain around how someone could leave horns in a foreign country. How can someone walk away from the "profit"? The next guy may have been all the above at one time, and under the right circumstances will be all of them again. He has had his share of filled freezers and may have more heads than he has room to hang them. He may have concluded that the price of his taxidermy could have been put to toward more hunts, and that the experience itself was the "profit" he wanted. He doesn't want to take anything home, perhaps because he doesn't have room or doesn't want to or can't live in a natural history museum. There is a chance that he will pass up the largest trophies if they cost more, or perhaps he now feels that that particular animal would make someones else's year or life and be a bit of a liability to him. He may have concluded that a stalk and kill on 10 management animals is a better "profit" than one trophy he doesn't even want. He may be into rifles as much or more than a few inches of bone, or maybe he just likes a big bag and lots of action. He may also have realized that the ability to leave trophies opens up a world of non exportable hunting opportunities at lower prices. About this time he could be a candidate for culling. Selective culling actually has much in common with trophy hunting. You go through a similar process of hunting, selecting and killing but with the difference being that he lets the big one go to get the old cow that past it. Is the old cow a lesser hunting experience than the nice bull that might be half her age? Now consider that he can just keep hunting, and being selective and using his hunting skills with the only difference being that he doesn't have to quit and go home and pay trophy fees, shipping and taxidermy of some thing that he doesn't even want. He just picks up his empties and continues hunting. That's selective culling, there's also herd reduction hunts that you try to kill basically everything you see. There's a lot of appeal for the guy who likes a large bag, and its tailor made for the guy that considers himself as much a shooter as a hunter. In addition to the volume of shooting there is the added attraction of multiple target shooting scenarios. Do you know the feeling of taking three or four geese out a decoying flock, or a triple calling coyotes? Well, make that six or eight and make them buffalo and swap your 22/250 or 12 gauge for a .458. For a guy hunting for experience that's different one. So is killing a whole herd of something. Starting to get it yet? People have their own motivations for hunting, and its not important that we all want, agree on or appreciate the same thing. There are some hunting experiences that don't appeal to me much, or don't seem to be worth it to me. Maybe its something I've done a lot of and I don't think that the "profit" is there anymore. I just assume that those who do seek out those hunts and opportunities see the value for themselves. Its all good, and its all different and much of it isn't for everyone. | |||
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Basically, cull hunting appeals to the hunter that enjoys shooting. It is normally offered in areas where there is an overabundance of a species and herd reductions are required. To the cull hunter, the experience is multiplied many times over by the number of game taken. The trophy hunter fires one or two shots and the hunt is over. The cull hunter will continue to enjoy a multiple of that experience over a longer period of time. It's akin to intense wingshooting. I have conducted cull hunts for the last 22 years on a privately owned island here. Hunters, both cull and trophy, have returned every year. Some have participated for 15 years straight. I personally have participated in many cull hunts in New Zealand, Australia, Namibia, and RSA. The benefit to the hunter is that his skill is significantly increased in taking game as it is a no pressure situation. It is like participating in a pro-clinic for golfers and tennis players. Cull hunting is the best practical hunting school for any hunter. Yes, the cost of a cull hunt is close to a trophy hunt of the same species. However, the value perceived can only be judged by the participant. Will you be satisfied with one average trophy animal or 50-100 of the same non-trophy animals of the same species in the same period of time? Geoff Shooter | |||
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gotcha! I shoot as many Rockchucks every spring as I can. That said, I pass on any under 500yds, because it has become a test of long range shooting skills, not a body count. | |||
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Culling is to a rifle hunter what South American dove shooting is to the wing shooter. Barrel scorching action, a learning experience and a good time. Comparisons to African dayrates might seem close, but remember that when you leave from a cull hunt you're done paying. Do a plainsgame hunt and the bills will probably still be coming for the next couple years. Remember those permit charges that you thought were too high, and the shipping that somehow seems to be double what you expected, and the brokerage guy that screws up and costs you money? How about the taxidermist that thought that you should put an addition on his house after you put one on yours to house trophies that will end up in a landfill someday? The cull hunter doesn't concern himself with any of that anymore. Theres nothing left but the travel and the fun. While the bills trickle in for the trophy hunter the culler has paid for his next trip with the savings. | |||
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That was just outstanding! Thank you for writing it! . | |||
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I must be a cull hunter, I have been Argentina Dove shooting, Oregon sage ratting, and shoot prairie dogs on a frequent basis. Don't have any trophies hanging on the wall. I like shooting. | |||
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In my experience in Australia, dealing with hunters from O/S - invariably there is 'sticker shock' when they see some of the culling rates... mainly I suspect because 1. they dont realise how incredibly high operating costs arre in Australia and b. they expect the culling rates to be very low as they expect the animals to be worthless and that by coming on a cull hunt they are doing the outfitter/landowner a favour somehow and don't expect to pay high rates. Yes there is also a supply and demand issue. The idea that AU outfitters somehow coerce clients to pay tips (in Australia) is arrant nonsense. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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A very good thread. Rich, I got the feeling you were quite down on such things. It sure opened the ball on getting others ideas. Mike: Man, that ain't no two cents worth, that's a couple bucks at least! Very well explained. Matt: Got that rifle last week finally, had some problems, got them worked out. Shot it 50 rnds today, did quite well for me offhand. Hopefully I can get where I can make the cull trip next year. I'll practice til then so I can do the best shooting like we all want. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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The idea of culling buffalo seemed pretty adventurous and exciting to me, before I did it (many times); and indeed, the stalk, as always, was a thrill. The need for quick, precise shooting was also a rush. And then I walked-up to the dead animals and felt... sad. There are very few places where culling buffalo is required / wanted by the landowners. | |||
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Just read this thread, and felt at the beginning that Idaho Sharpshooter was off a bit on the costs. When I went to Africa a couple of years back on a "cull" or more properly a mgt. hunt, I shot 18 head of game. Not further mark ups for trophy fees, taxidermy or anything. Cost me like $6,500.00. Another guy who was there doing a trophy hunt paid about double that, plug getting the stuff home, etc. I had pictures and the memories. I got 18 animals, the other guy got 6 or so. In south Africa, or in that area at all, a Mgt hunt is shooting off selected animals. A "cull" hunt is shooting off wholesale, so the animals can be butchered and sold on the market. In a true cull hunt you might shoot 200 animals a day. Looks like shooting the Buff in Aus. more of a Mgt hunt. Note too, that you can go and shoot 50 Buff for less than the price of a true "trophy" buff. I have seen prices of $10k for that with regularity. That's 40% more than the mgt hunt. I decided, that if going over, would opt for the mgt hunt on Buff, as could spend the whole week hunting and take ? many buff, each being a new and separate hunt. Kind of like making 30 different hunts, rather than one. I can, however ID with the poster immediately above, as feel that way too. | |||
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Just realized that in the Buff hunt in Aus. if you add the $3,000 trophy fee to the hunt cost, is about $10k. which is 40-50% more than the just Mgt hunt. So not really about the same price wise. When I did the mgt hunt in Namibia, I was allowed to keep the best animal I shot, from each of the 3 groups. Realized later that the one Oryx probably made the book, the Springbok was very nice, and the best Steenbok made the book(s). Inasmuch as it was a Mgt hunt, no additional trophy fees attached, though did have to pay for the preparation and shipping fees on the trophies brought back. Also, might mention that in Africa, lots of "package" hunts, that include trophy fees for a set of different animals, so are less expensive than a pure trophy hunt. | |||
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