ABC Illawarra (Wollongong)
The Country Hour 08/07/2004 - 12:49 PM
Compere: Emily Doak
Station Ph: 02 4224 5011

Report. Sporting shooting is a new international tourism market in New
Zealand with stag deer being bred for stalking parties. They are
mainly US shooters who pay $50,000 for the shooting holidays. Other
introduced species are also fair game.

This topic comes up every now and then and always gets people going. To me its not "Hunting" if its in a paddock it CAN'T get out of then its a canned hunt. If people want to do it, well good on them just don't tell other people that you "hunted it.

So what is different in NZ to hunting an enclosure in the US or Canada or Europe or anywhere ? If thats your thing and you want to pay that sort of money for a " trophy " then so be it . I prefer free range hunting myself but we are all different . Ignore it , they will go pick on someone else after a while ...

I suppose it depends on the size of the enclosure. If it is one of those 500 acre jobs I have heard of ,then you could just poark in the middle and take your shot. Bit if its 100000 acres of natural bush ,then it is the same as being in the wild. How big are the enclosures in these "canned lion hunts" Ive heard about?

Bakes
It would be a good little earner for the land owner, it may not be the way that you or I would like to hunt but if their paying that much, but then again, it would start to become like other places in the world where only the wealthy get to shoot cos' they pay the big bucks. And I wouldn't like to be pushed out by some wealthy yank.

High fenced hunt does not equal a "canned" hunt.



Just because there are fences does not mean game can not get away.



It is variable and depends on the size of the fenced area and the type of terrain. Also how long the game has been in the "wild" and how has it been fed.



A 100 acre fenced deer paddock is a "canned" hunt. I also think a 3000 acre fenced area with no real cover and lots of grassy fields and hill sides is also a canned hunt. A stag that was released a month ago (or yesterday) into any enclosure is a "canned" hunt. Even a stag released a year ago is much more tame than one in the "wild" for years or born in the "wild". If the stags are fed from vehicles with pellets or grain or hay feeders in my opinion it is a canned hunt as the animals have been aclimatised to contact with humans. I can shoot off my .450 right next to my deer farm and the deer will not run away.



Did you know most wild animals in Europe are supplementary fed over winter by hunters? Are these canned hunts too? I don't know but I know some deer in Europe are easy to approach why some are extremely wary and smart.



A lot of these big stags come straight from deer breeding and velvet paddocks and once they are "going back" are sold as a "trophy". You just don't find hundreds of 20 plus point stags in the wild. Or if you do it is a one in a million find. There is a reason for this.



Hunting a decent sized fenced area with rough country and areas of thick bush where animals can hide can be sporting. If the game is "wild" long enough and not hand fed from the back of vehicles. One of the hardest areas I have hunted was a fenced area in South Africa with thick thorn bush areas. The game was very skittish from being over-hunted every day. I will hunt fenced areas again where the area is suitable and the animals can escape and do actually run away if they smell or see me etc.



South Africa got a bad name for allowing all sorts of these "cannned" practices above to go on for lion and other game. It seems to be the standard for foreign deer trophy hunting in NZ ....... Australia is not immune either. Just because it is easier and the only way to get a stag in 3 days on a "weeks" hunting trip doesn't make it sporting. That's why they are called "trophies" because they are difficult and can take weeks or years to get and the main object is not to take a bragging piece back home but to enjoy the outdoor experience and real hunting!!!!!





PS Talking about cover - I just hunted on Kangaroo Island and the pigs were often camping on the road reserves beside the paddocks they feed in at night. The bush is very thick and full of prickles and thorns and next to impenetrable. Even though they are only several metres wide strips of bush. The roadways were game "highways" from the spoor!



Some areas like this in fenced areas can make all the difference between "hunting" and "canned" very easily and also change it from day stalking to nocturnal if they hide up during the day.

Disregarding the issue of a canned/fenced hunt or not, this is what caught my eye:

"They are mainly US shooters who pay $50,000 for the shooting holidays."

Uh, is it just me, or are they nuts??!! Crazy Americans!! Oh wait.... I'm an American. I still think it's crazy. $50,000 for what? How many animals and how many hunters for that price? Is that a group price or something?

-Bob F.

That would be a total package eg red stag from an expensive game lodge in NZ, some alpine game such as tahr nd chamois, a banteng, water buffalo etc in the NT, maybe a sambar somewhere maybe North Island. All at probably quite inflated prices, but it would add up. Some visitors try to get the entire South Pacific grandslam in a single month and $50,000 would be less than what that might cost for such a 'collection'.



Other guys hunt the same for 40 years and have a lifetime of good hunting and experiences out of it.



PS There are many others other than Yanks that come and do it no doubt about that. Even some famous (in the magazines) Aussies shoot out of chopters and through the wire to get their bragging ornaments.

They guarantee the size too!

It is pre-measured and scored before you shoot it.

This is what is called the ultimate canned hunt. The price goes up as the animals scores go up.

I went o hunt on a Texas ranch about 20 odd years ago.

I shot a Barbary sheep and a black buck. An axis deer was also included in the deal.

We saw one at the camp every day. One can get to within 10 yards of him, and he would just look at you.

The guide suggested I shoot it.

I thought he was kidding, but apparently he was not.

I just could not do it.

We have a penned stag on offer on an on-line auction site here at present - photo shows an obviously sedated fifteen point red stag in a deer pen . Starting bid is $1000 NZ , which I suppose is cheap , but I dont see it as hunting , and the hunt is the thing that makes the trophy worthwhile .

I would rather have a nondescript small trophy head that I had to work hard for than one I shot in a cage . If I want to cage shoot I will trap the neighbours cat ( again ...)

What are doing ? Practicing CATch and realease ?

Mate , the one on offer is photographed totally sedated - like unconscious - so you would need to wait till the sedative wears off before it even staggers out of the deer yards , let alone runs to the far end of the paddock...

Muzza, I was referring to your neighbors cat !
Theese places are a blight on any true sportsmans butt no matter what country they operate in.

Oh the cat ! Yes , real catch and release on that one - the three I trapped this morning were released too , just used a different method and dont expect to see them again . The joys of garbage collection in the early hours....

LMAO, I hadn't heard that saying since grand dad died. That was his favorite trick on the farm.

No , my friends , the nice puddy tats have been consigned to tiddles heaven , never to be a blight on anyones doorstep again. All very scientific and relatively silent....Mr Winchesters Rapid Lead Injection strikes again

Look guys, New Zealand is an island and the game CANNOT get off the island. So by definition, this is not a fair chase hunt.

BA,

Those hunts are marketed to some of the SCI glitterati who need a number of animals taken in the South Pacific in order to attain their Pinnacles of Achievement, and global hunting awards.

No one ever went broke catering to the high dollar crowd.

George

Here is the photo off the auction listing. Looks pretty much like the deer is sedated and in a deer handling yard. hardly a sporting photo... I have asked if the deer will be let out of the yards for the hunt - no reply to date



15 pointer red stag ,cant see if it has an ear tag , but if this is your style of hunting - go for it

He must be tired after all that shagging and is having a little rest.

Envious ????

Murray

Wait to see if that stag turns up in a hunting magazine later in the year or next year. Has happened before.

He looks like a fine animal. Too clean for the rut.

Now if only my stags would be as "calm"!!!!! when I handled them.

Feed them some of that cheap plonk you make mate - that ought to calm them down somewhat ..

I wouldnt be at all surprised if he turns up as the centre of attention in a hunting journal soon..

I can see it now; big stag stumbles from the scrub, all four legs wobbly, and roars "OK you hunting bainsteads, hoo wants ta take the furst shot, hic?"

I hunt and take meat,or kill ferals sno interest to me..
For 50,000 Kiwi/Oz/USd they could probably hunt the bigest game of all on the dark continent, but i'm told thats no fun anymore as they mostly all shoot back now..and the guides want their money up front.."or so I have heard"..
On the properties I hunt on they have fences but the Pigs, Deer,Rabbits and Foxes don't pay any attention to them, I have yet to pony up for a Hunting and Conservation license to allow me to hunt for ferals in National Parks or crown lands..
Luke in Oz