Does anyone know a source of 6.5x54 ammo or cases in this country? I see they are available in the US but don't fancy my chances of getting any sent over on a private basis.

They come up for sale often enough in the hunting and shooting section of our TradeMe auction site. Some cases available now but I don't know how hard it is to get this sort of stuff across from NZ to OZ.

The link below is to the TradeMe auction with a gunsmith/dealer company as the seller who lists a lot of stuff on the TradeMe site and are great to deal with. Don't know if they would send direct to OZ.

TradeMe only allows bidding from NZ residents, I would be happy to help if it was possible to post privately to OZ.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sport...uction-803085570.htm

Pretty sure that importing brass is the same as projectiles and all that is needed is a B709.

Customs grab 'em (maybe) and write to you with a deadline to produce your docs.

Check before you commit (it's all on line) but I don't think there is any problem at the Aust. end, provided you get the docs.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Does anyone know a source of 6.5x54 ammo or cases in this country? I see they are available in the US but don't fancy my chances of getting any sent over on a private basis.

Does Bruce Bertram make it? Cant find his list anywhere...

Can't make them from another case?

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Can't make them from another case?

The 6.5x54 case is one of those which cannot be made from other commonly available cases, just by resizing and trimming. There are ways using other brass if you had no other options but it needs a bit of lathe work etc.

BTW the brass advertised on our TradeMe site that I have posted the link to in my earlier post is Prvi Partizan.

Thanks everyone. Keep the ideas coming if you've got any more.

It may be possible to make the cases but the .452/454"? head seems hard to find. I've heard that one of the old centrefire .22s might work but the only cartridge I can seen that might share a shellholder seems to be the slightly larger 35 Remington (.458"). Since the chamber of my rifle seems a bit large, maybe that could be made to work if the rims were reduced slightly. The .35 Rem case looks a little short but maybe would lengthen when necked down.

Anyway, I'm not used to doing stuff like that, so would rather find the real stuff if possible.

I think eagle 27 has kindly offered you as easy a solution as you are going to get.

Why cannot brass be sent to you from the US???
Is it illegal?
BTW, I may have some. I know I have the dies.

John Moore posts here on AR. He & his son cross the ditch a few times a year.

6.5X54MS cases by Norma are available here. I think I have a new lot of 50 with me.

PM John and see if he can bring them over for you.

Yes, though I'd love to be able to buy loaded cartridges such as are available in the US, getting some cases brought over from NZ may be the only answer.

Having brass sent from the USA may not be illegal but is likely to be difficult. With the laws against exporting things with any possible military application, I couldn't even get an online shop to send me a two-quart GI water bottle.

I bought just two packets of 6.5 ammo here about 25 years ago, and paid $29 each for them then, but not seen any since.

I have about 25 cartridges left and 15 spent cases but don't expect the cases to last many loads because the big chamber distends them a lot on one side. Has anyone every tried putting a single strip of cellotape around the solid head of cartridges to centre them in the chamber? Though such cartridges may not feed well, I wonder if it might work when carefully loading the first round.

Nakihunter, after exhausting inquiries of local gunshops, I may indeed like to ask your contact for help, thanks.

I've never had any difficulties importing brass. Loaded ammo will be a hole different issue as they are explosives.

Cut the guess work out of it and ring Customs and Vic Police and find out their requirements.

I am surprised things are that hard .....

Do you not have a local shop who will receive a shipment for you on his license for a small mark up?

Here in NZ a local shop agreed to $100 handling fee if I wanted to import a rifle on his license as long as I did all the paper work & paid all the bills!

Contact these guys http://www.reloadinginternatio...php?products_id=3164. Very good to deal with. You can buy all the brass, bullets and other bits you need for a 10% fee added to the total bill. They ship in flat rate packs of varying sizes.

I got my CEB bullets in 2 calibers & 2 types each from them. Landed cost was less than half of what a local shop wanted to charge me.

I started using PPU Privi but yes I am in the US...I still have to order from afar. I used up my old Hirtenburger ammo. And my gun never liked Norma.

Thanks again, chaps. I asked the local shop about these matters and the man said he had got some 6.5x54 ammo in a few months ago and might get some more, if the importers bother to ask for that calibre. These were Highlanders at about $35 a packet. At that price I'd take a hundred rounds - possibly a lifetime supply for me.

my little regular stock carbine looks good and is a take down but the barrel has almost no rifling left...bright shinny just has the shit shot out of it...still a wonderful gun, but I will hunt with it no practicing.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am surprised things are that hard .....

They aren't !!!

Getting them in here is a snap. Posting them from NZ is a snap. Reloading International are, as you said, great to deal with. Also a snap.

Just get it done Sambarman.

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
my little regular stock carbine looks good and is a take down but the barrel has almost no rifling left...bright shinny just has the shit shot out of it...still a wonderful gun, but I will hunt with it no practicing.

With your .256" bore washed out to the .267 groove, 333 OKH, that's like saying you've worn the Grand Canyon down to to a new Baja beach.

I think my barrel has still go a bit left - it took several cleans to even see the bottom of the rifling.

You may wish to try some boxer primed 6.5 x 52 Carcano cases. All is identical except for the shoulder angle and a shorter neck. I have used these and could not find any differences or problems when loading with 6.5 x 54 MS dies.

Hello Sambarman, Contact Doug Barnes ( Western Gunsmiths ) in Perth..He had some R.W.S. factory loads in case lots..Cheers Dhufish

I have 50 once fired cases, contact me if you want them Cheers Dhufish

More food for thought. Can you fire the Carcano ammo in the MS safely, geoff, or just use the cases?

Thanks dhulfish, I may look into those options.

I also have two packets of new in sealed boxes R.W.S. 159 grain factory loads..I am coming to Melbourne Thursday next week,let me know if you want any of this stuff , I can bring it...Cheers

Thanks dhufish - I'll send you a PM

Yeah I got it but my resend did not work 08 95783090

In my experience, Carcano ammo will not chamber in the MS due to the different shoulder angle. When proper MS cases were unavailable, I resized the Carcano cases with MS dies, and they worked well. Look at the two cartridge specs. and see how close they are in size.

Geoff

Thanks guys. My cup runneth over.

Geoff, do you think loaded Carcano ammo could be run through the MS dies if the decapping pin was removed? Years ago I resized some 338 mag ammo like that after a misadventure in crimping bullets that bulged the shoulders.

Sambarman,
I am assuming you mean primed Carcano cases. Yes, there should not be a problem. I did this using 7.35 Carcano cases that had berdan primers. Pulled the bullets, dumped powder, recharged, and seated 6.5 bullets.

The 7.35 ammo was stored very well and all of the primers worked. So, used the cases and ejected in the field when shooting rapid fire whacking pigs.

If you can find surplus ammo with good primers, this may be an economical way to go, as long as you clean your MS with proper solvent for corrosive ammo, or just use soap and hot water.

Geoff

As a second thought, the cartridges produced from Carcano brass will have a little short neck due to the original case length. Some reloading gurus will advise that short necks will lead to premature throat erosion.

Well, considering the age of my 6.5 x 54 MS and my own advanced age, it is like me worrying about over exerting my prostate if indulging in too much sex. LOL!! Enjoy your great rifle.

Geoff

I found 50 new Norma brass. You can have them at cost - let us say A$40. PM me if you know how to get them into Oz and if you want them.

I may have solved the problem, thanks guys. Dhufish (whom I discover I once met in Africa) brought me 40 cartridges and 40 cases from far away and they might last me a lifetime, esp. if I can find dies and the correct shell holder somewhere.

The short Carcano brass would at least save trimming for a while and, remembering my efforts to get trimmer fittings even for the 338WM, that might be a godsend

I wouldnt worry about the short necks - no-one worried about the short neck on the Boer War issue Kortnek 7x57 ammo that The South African "rebels" used when they couldnt source regular 7x57 in 1899 or so ... ( with apologies to the descendants of those who fought against the British at the time )

I've just been looking at dimension drawings for the two cartridges and have noticed some interesting things.

First, the actual length differences is given as only about 1mm but the MS appears to have the shoulder about 0.65mm farther forward. The angle difference in the shoulders is so small (two minutes) that I doubt it would make much difference. What Geoff stated as the shoulder angle problem could be simply that the Carcano body is slightly fatter at the shoulder, which could make headspace resistance if chambered in the MS. I would worry that running Carcano cases full length through MS dies might risk excess headspace unless slimming the body pushes it forward.

The rim and head of the MS cartridge are supposedly .454/.452", while the Carcano is .450 for both. However, my RWS MS cartridges only appear to measure .450" anyway.

The most graphic difference in the cartridges appears to be that the MS uses a .264" bullet while the Carcano specs call for one of .2665".

Since the MS groove is said to be even bigger than that, it might not be a problem, esp. if factory Carcano cartridges were loaded with the common .264" bullet.

The MS action looks nowhere near as strong as a 98 Mauser, though, so I would be reluctant to push my luck in experiments.

Sambarman,
The MS actions have been used for many contemporary cartridges up to the 458 Win. mag. Surely, the manufacturer was not experimenting when offering the various chamberings. I have two carbines, 308 Win and 257 Rbts. besides the old 6.5 x 54 and have never felt that the action was insufficient in any way.

My 6.5 does have a .266 bore.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, yes I have heard of those bigger chamberings. Were the later iterations of exactly the same ring diameter as the Greek 03/14?

My 1927 Breda looks skimpy compared with the M98 and has a bit of pitting the along the receiver, partly explaining my caution. Also, the lack of any external bolt shroud and the separate bolt head make me wonder.

Would the .266 bore handle .2665, were the Carcano bullets really that large?

In response to one mans question. It IS illegal without an export permit from State department, to send Brass or bullets from the US to anywhere else. Might get away with it, as Aust. doesn't care, if you have the needed form to enclose,but, believe me, Customs here (part of H.S.), does care. A few years back, not knowing about the needed permit, I was trying to send some 300Sav brass to a friend in RSA. It got confiscated and "I" got a visit from Homeland Security. There is a guy in Oregon, I think it is who can get the permits quickly, as a dealer, so can send it legal. But it costs a $100 for his time and then the shipping.

Reloading international, mentioned by Nakiman, is the outfit here I was talking about.

Sambarman,
I have some old Carcano G.I. bullets that I miked. They do indicate a .266 diameter with a 162 gr. weight. I loaded these in the 6.5 x 54 and shot paper with them. In my rifle, they proved to be more accurate than with Norma .264 bullets that weigh 160 gr. Then again, it could be the varying powder charge used, but this was only @ 50 yds. with iron sights.

Geoff

Considering the long arm of US law, tysue, I wouldn't be surprised if some dudes with dark suits and glasses, crewcuts and bicycles knocked on my door, were I to import cases from your country.

As to those .266" Carcano bullets, geoff, you've surprised me again. Another AR forum recently seemed to resolve that the old MS practice was to supply .256 bores cut down to about .268 grooves, to be fed with .264 bullets expected to upset for obturation in the deep rifling.

My 6.5X54MS bore slugged at .268" and I used the corresponding Carcano bullets in 160 gr from Hornady & shot a Fallow hind. It was more accurate than the standard 264" bullets.

I am not sure if it was Ken Waters or someone else who wrote about this. BTW Ken Waters' 358 Win rifle had a 366" bore! They obviously just used a 9.3 barrel!

Please note that the old 1903 and similar model split bridge actions are not for high pressure ammo. Yes I know that some have used modern loads in them. The 1950s MS rifles were proofed for it but the old pre WW2 rifles are known to have problems with high pressure ammo.