Recently aquired some wildcat cartridges referred to as .22 Blake . These are the .308 Winchester case shortend to 1.7" and fitted with a 52 grain hp projectile.

Supposedly an Australian cartridge - does anyone have any information about them ? Some background on who made them , when and how successful would be great , otherwise its just another unidentified wildcat ....

Never heard of it up my way???

Not referred to in the books I have on wildcats either.

sounds interesting though.

The cases are ex-mil dated 66 , but that doesnt mean anything really. I picked them up in Aussie , as aussie wildcats so I figured someone here might know .

They dont feature in any of my wildcat referances either ( and I have a fairly good wildcat library , which isnt easy in itself...) but then not many of the Australian wildcats are documented well anyway. Even some of the MYRA stuff is hard to identify.

Thanks guys , hopefully someone else may have some snippet of information.

I think you may be referring to a 308x1.5" necked to 6mm.
The benchresters in Bris were showing one around one day; something like a Super 6mm PPC!

Nope.

Its a 1.7" case with a .224 cal 52 grain projectile. My guess is that it dates from the late 60's - early 70's or so but thats as far as it goes .

There is a catridge very similiar in wolfe's "Wildcat Cartridges".

I am still thinking about a .22-250 AI (40 degree). Keeping the .22-250 I own but getting another Ruger Varmint and having it rechambered to see what that is like compared to the standard one at being able to hit rabbits way out there.

What about a 22-243. Ive heard its an accurate cartridge and am thinking of getting one built.

Down side would be having to form cases first.

The downside to any wildcat is case forming. Some of them are just a fireform procedure - K-Hornet for instance -others are a multi-step pain in the rump. I shoot 219 Donaldson wasp , formed from 30-30 cases and 6 x 45 formed from 223 cases, and these are both easy to form , although the donaldson is a bit more time consuming - but still not difficult .

But my wildcat query isnt the 22-243 either....

I was kinda thinking of the .22-243 Middlested as a possibility to build on an existing action I own but was talked out of it by a gun smith i know well.

Not that I would build one myself but i wonder what the Donaldson is like on case life? And what velocities you get, Muzza?

Cant say on caselife Ross , havent fired enough shots to wear any out . I have a form/trim die and a case trimmer too so case life isnt that important - I also have a 30-30 so parent cases are not an issue .

Theres lots of info on the Donaldson for velocity etc , my loads are pretty mild and from the ADI website , but with more development things may change .
3200-3300+ fps are the norm with this round.It does go off with a sharp crack out of a 20 inch barrel....

My rifle is a NEF Handi rifle , originally in .22 Hornet , but rechambered to 219 Donaldson. It requires recutting the chamber and retrofitting a 30-30 extractor , which requires milling the extractor channel in the receiver- none of which is impossible if you have access to a machine shop and someone who knows what they are doing.

You dont do a wildcat for any reason other than because you can. Does there need to be more to life than that ?

muzza,
This 22 Blake wildcat your looking at ... has the base been turned down at all? Closest wildcat I can find sounds similiar but is based on a 30Remington case.
Cheers...
Con

Your right about the wildcat bit, Muz. Have a wide selection of varmint calibres but I thought it would be a buzz to play around with something a bit different.

That got me thinking of the Middlestead but am leaning towords the .22-250 AI (I know its not really a wildcat as it fires in the standard chamber) at the moment.

I have the paperwork on the way for a Dealers Licence at the moment and if we go that way, ready money to spend on other rifles could be a bit short for a while.

Once established, that will be another matter

Ross , you aussies made a stack of 303 based calibres for the SMLE - why not just locate a ready made rifle that someone cant get ammo for , get some dies and go shoot it ?

The 303-22 , 243 , 25 , 270,35 , 375 range covers everything you will ever need in Australia , unless you want to go politician hunting and then something more in the mocro surgery range will be needed for brain shots anyway .....

Find something that just fireforms into the new calibre , much easier than case forming etc.

I was given a SMLE .303-25 with 20 rounds just before xmas by a guy who had got it as a gift-- blah, blah--

Haven't shot it yet. I mounted a scope on it as it came with base and rings. I will get around to it soon. Loaded ammo is not real common over here and I haven't really looked for dies yet.

but all good fun.

Ross,
If you want to get your 303-25 up and running drop me a PM and I'll send you a set of dies on loan. I haven't played with my 303-25 yet as other projects are taking up my time.
Cheers...
Con

Wahoo - wildcatters in action !!!!!

I love it !

My current rifles are mainstream (.308 x 2, 6.5x55, 7mm Rem Mag, 8mm Mauser) and I would like to build something 'way out there' just for fun.

Not too interested in the ultramagnums (tho a 7mm UM would be good fun), and need (read want) a new toy. 22-243 Middlested would make a good long range varmint/chamois rifle. If built on a good stong action could load the hell out of it too.

22-250 AI would be fun too, tho might not outshoot a 220 Swift.

What about a .22 WSM wildcat for a real barrel killer.

The .22 WSM would certainly be interesting. A tad overbore maybe. May consume a bit of very slow powder and need a fast twist. Could be fun

I wonder how long a barrel would last.

I'm still wondering about the 22-250 AI and the Middlestead. Our son Drew is back on the idea of the Swift again, so bit of a coincidence you should mention it, Smudge.

Drew was shooting the .204 today blowing up crows and rabbits. That is a flat shooting calibre with next to no recoil. And he said we should consider a swift for another varmint rifle. Perhaps he should shake some moths out of his sporan for a change :LOL

But I guess Dads are made of money.

22 Ourgensplitten loudeboomer (22-378 Wby)

.22-6mm Remington is a fine round which you can use heavy bullets in.

muzza,
Are you sure your not looking at a poor man's version of the .22 Lindahl Chukar rimless? Length 1.7", base to neck: 1.43", base to shoulder: 1.20", shoulder angle: 28deg. Base diameter 0.4220" as its based on the 30Remington. If the dimensions are similiar but based on a 0.473" base diameter, its an easier way to source cases for an Aussie .
Cheers...
Con

quote:

I'm still wondering about the 22-250 AI and the Middlestead. Our son Drew is back on the idea of the Swift again, so bit of a coincidence you should mention it, Smudge.

But I guess Dads are made of money.

GBB,
Pick up a second-hand Ruger VT in 223Rem and for another $300-odd rechamber to either 22/250AI, 22/243Middlestead, or 220Wilson-Arrow. You'll get a 26" stainless barrel (fast-twist on some models) and will have your rifle for about $1000! MAB has reamers for the 22/250AI and 22/243 (not sure if its a Middlestead reamer) and they're good value for money in their gunsmithing charges. Maybe we can hit them for a discount as I'm saving for the Whisper barrel through them.
Cheers...
Con

That's what I was thinking of, Con. A Ruger Vt .223 like the one I own in 22/250. I didn't know where to look for someone with the required reamers but I was going to try Grinter. So MAB have them? Perhaps we should try a discount. It will be interesting which calibre. All grab me at present, but I'd kind of discarded the Wilson arrow compared to the others. Both the others would be interesting to shoot against our 22/250.

Where would be the best bet for dies, I wonder? I know that's a way down the track. Any ideas when you were going to have your barrel work done?

I haven't seen a good second hand Ruger VT at a reasonable price for a while.

I really do enjoy fooling around reloading for our centrefires. i just carn't be bothered with shotgun shells any more as there is no real saving and factory stuff is so good.

The Whisper should be pretty interesting!

Ross

Heres a pic of the 22-308 Blake Special , with 22-243 Middlestead and "ordinary" 22-243 for comparison , with another unidentified 22-308 wildcat as well.


left to right

22 Blake , 22-243 Middlestead , 22-243 Ordinary , 22-308 unknown , 22-308 Blake

More food for thought!

Reminds me of the .223 WSM a bit.. Check out the price on the .223 WSSM and .243 WSSM Winchester rifles in the Cleavers ad in the latest SSAA journal.. Tells you how popular they were, to go off topic again.

J-R,
I too noticed those low prices in the journal. Pretty amazing besides mainstream calibres. I bet there are a lot of blokes around who wish they had never heard that four-lettered swear word "WSSM".

I saw a pic of a .50 cal BMG necked to .224 somwhere lately. Kind of gives over-bore a whole new meaning

That Ear Splitten Loudenboomer in P.O.'s book would have been pretty interesting too.

what about the .17-`06??? But, would a 22 calibre pill pushed by a handfull of powder in a .50 cal shell, not vapourise before it hit the target?

I don't know that there would be powders around that would be slow enough for it to really work?

Be tricky or you'd end up with secondary detonation effect if you only used a bit in such a large case. I think that's what its called when there's only a bit of powder in a badly overbore calibre and the spark causes the powder to burn "across the top" pushing the projectile into the bore. Then it all ignites and explodes. I think.
Interesting one.
ross

Having flicked through my reference books on wildcats the only thing I see what comes close is the .22 Waldorf and to a lesser extent the .22br Rem. Be interesting to see the out come on the history of this .22 Blake...

GBB

Think it is too much trouble when you get to this stage. see Http://www.accuratereloading.com/700ne.html for the trouble they go to to avoid hangfires.

Tho wouldnt this rifle be fun to surprise your friends with. Have you seen the videos of this rifle, I think it is the one they call the flying rifle. Energy 14560 and blew primer. Yep, what a toy.

And after 20 or 30 rabbits, I think you would be doing a fair imitation of the hunchback of Notre Dame.

What sort of bullets tho, solids on rabbits???

Perhaps dumdumed with a bit of something heavy in the tip (have you seen the day of the jackel, was it was mercury ????)

quote:

Originally posted by Smudge:
GBB

Think it is too much trouble when you get to this stage. see Http://www.accuratereloading.com/700ne.html for the trouble they go to to avoid hangfires.

Aren't hangfires mostly solved by using a filler to keep the powder down on the primer and avoid airgaps for the flash to jump along?

Can you get a hangfire still even if appropriate amounts of filler are used?

Just wondering.

I recall actually seeing a .17 -`06 round in an article once, prolly by uncle Nick. It seemed like lunacy to me.

Nitro

I have no idea about hangups. It must be something to do with either the condition of the primer or powder, or the relationship between the primer and the powder tho.

My guess for this rifle http://www.accuratereloading.com/700ne.html is the magnum primer did not burn hot or long enough to ignite a large load of relatively slow powder, and the bullseye acted a little bit like a secondary primer to set off the main load. It doesnt say weather they put the bullseye in first next to the primer tho.

GBB, Ive heard that the reason Winchester didnt put out a .25 or 6mm WSM was the difficulty they were having getting powder selection etc right.

Im not an expert and some of the people who frequent the reloading forum would know a lot more, but my guess is that the .308 size case would be about as big as you could go in .22 caliber before you started running into problems with powder selection and not really getting any further benefit.

As I understand it, there is a complex interelationship between bullet diameter, bullet weight, powder density (in the case), powder speed and case size.

If too much of a particular powder is used for a given bullet weight and diameter then the bullet cannot accelerate fast enough and get high initial chamber pressure. If the powder is too slow for a particular bullet dia and weight, then the slow burning powder 'catchs up' with the bullet after intial acceleration and can get very large secondary pressure spikes. A cartridge performs better when the case is full of powder. Some powders seem to be just right for a particular cartridge and the usual bullet weight and diameter used, like AR2208 in the .308

My guess for a 22 WSM is to make the most of it would need to use a very heavy bullet with a slow powder and long barrel. I think it would be a real juggle getting it to perform well, and the result would be disapointing, with little gain over a .22 wssm or a 22-243 Middlestead.

smudge,
makes a lot of sense.