A bloke I know well here is still chewing my ear about the number of foxes he is getting with his new 223 WSSM. I still maintain that the 22-250 (and the new 204) will shoot just that bees dick flatter than his Model 70. He is adamant that it is more accurate and a bit mkore accurate at the extreme range.

I guess I was just thinking aloud how we can get carried away with the calibres we really like. I think the 223 WSSM will be well gone before the other calibres.

Much agreement there?

I wonder how Nitro is going?
And I wonder how very cold it would be out near Woomera for D o K shooting roos? I am glad I get to bed by 9 pm.

D o K, a private message

Just interested. Does Atavar really mead :God" in the Hindu religion or am I missing something?

This is the forum I have ever had the courage to join.

Greybeard

quote:

Just interested. Does Atavar really mead :God" in the Hindu religion or am I missing something?

Avatar is defined as the incarnation (bodily manifestation) of an Immortal Being

Spiral Out....

quote:

This is the forum I have ever had the courage to join.

Greybeard

Good to have you around the electronic campfire....even if you do have a VB in your hand.

G'day All. Greybeard, you are on the right track, the new short magnum fad is just that, they don't do anything a number of estabished cartridges already do, but they ARE new and shiny! They also have some feeding problems, depending on the brand of rifle.
And, of course we have all the gun writers pushing them as the latest thing. I have a 270wsm, which does the same as my 270Win. 50fps faster for any given bullet weight, and won't feed anywhere near as smoothly.
Think I will stick with the chamberings that I can buy at the little general stores in the middle of nowhere.
What does he mean by extreme range? Since my .223Rem I use for target shooting will deliver 7" groups at 900yds (fullbore rifle shooting) with the 69gr VLD's, what range does he consider to be extreme?
I reckon you are right, since the wsm and wssm, don't do anything that other, more established (popular) calibers do, it may not be long before they fade away. As an example, the local gunshop sells 40 standard 223's to every wssm (either 223 or 243) sold.
But don't be suprised, since Winchester have lots of these rifles in stock in Australia, stand by for the bargain sales!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

This guy does a fair bit of fox shooting, mostly spotlighting on his and neighbours farms. His wife works at my school. He reckons he can consistantly hit foxes (body shot) at 300, 350 yards (and occasionally beyound! He claims about about one our of every three foxes shot at ends up on the tray of his Landcruiser. I've seen him shoot and he can shoot.

But I still think that shots with foxes at that range, he'd be doing as well with the 22-250 he traded in.

During the day, I can connect on a reasonably regular basis on crow size pests out to 350 yards with my 22-250 Ruger Varmint and nearly as well with our .204. It's a standard Ruger, so it isn't fair to compare the two. If it was a Varmint Ruger, I reckon they would be on a par, accuracy wise. But my preferance would still go to the 22-250 because of the ease of getting ammo and components.

When the 223 WSSM hit the shops here, a few sold but that eased off very quickly. The price of Super Shadows fell rapidly too and I know one gun shop in the closest "city" (eeeh, town) to us that still has a couple sitting in the racks.

A few deer shooters rushed out and bought the 270, 7mm and 30 WSM and I know one who shoots Field and Game with us regrets selling his 30-06 to get a 270 WSM. I am very happy with the killing power of the 30-06 and may buy a WSM just to have another calibre, but I still think they will fade. A gun manufacturer's plot to sell more guns, not necessarily more accurate ones.

I reckon the figure you quote on gun sales, Sambar, would be about right. The guy I get most of our firearms and ammo off says he hasn't sold one WSSM but the 22-250's are still moving.

I bet they do drop to bargain prices, considering the deals being offered in many makes here at the moment. A Howa 1500, scope (admittedly pretty ordinary scope) in the usual calibres for $660, a standard Ruger in any of the calibres its chambered for with same scope (4 to ..... something Tasco) for well under $800-. And ammo is the cheapest I have seen for ages. (PMC cenrefire, anyway).

I used to shoot full bore with an Omark .308 about 28 years ago for 12 months but gave it up.

You certainly are doing well with your .223 REM!

Greybeard

G'day Greybeard, It's a lot easier for me to shoot a 223 now, too much surgery to manage my old 7.62. I see a lot more of them turning up at the ranges, usually people lioke me who have problems with recoil, and have had their omarks rebarrelled. you just have to be a bit more careful with the breeze, the little pill doesn't like too much wind on it's way downrange!
AQ have just bought another "bargain" centrefire, a tikka t3, in 223, for spotlighting. at $790, for a stainless, you just can't beat them. Rugers are O.K, but the only two I have had that I just could not get to shoot, were a .222 and a 22/250. I can't recall ever hearing anyone moan about a Tikka.

Cheers, Dave.

AQ? Sambar, not thinking straight. Where?

I agree about the Tikkas and i have a soft spot for Sakos and Leupold scopes (but my wallet can get light on.. )

I know others also haven't been as lucky as us with rugers. the 22-250, 243, 204 and 30-06 are all very good performers. although the 243 took a little playing with.

A bit of luck with some makes more than others.

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
...the new short magnum fad is just that, they don't do anything a number of estabished cartridges already do, but they ARE new and shiny!
They also have some feeding problems, depending on the brand of rifle.
Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

Yep. There are feeding problems with some rifles.

However, these new wizz-bang, super-short magnums will do one thing faster and better than the old established cartridges, drain your wallet.

New rifle, new dies, new brass, etc. etc.

I have no problem buying a new rifle (or several, for that matter), but paying for some marketing guys promotional "bonus" is not my idea of a wise use of my money.

If 50 fps makes your day, you better buy a Lazzeroni.

quote:

Originally posted by GreybeardBushman:
He claims about about one our of every three foxes shot at ends up on the tray of his Landcruiser.

If that translates to one OUT of every three shots, kills a fox that is a discrace

Or was that a reference to one in three having a skin worth skinning?

Seriously shooting past 300m is fine but once a fox has been missed they learn real quick and next time they will be running as soon as they see your light coming.

The pros that taught me used to go out in pairs. One would shoot until he missed then the other would shoot until he missed. At $50 a skin not many shots could be afforded to be past up but rountinely got into the 70's before a muffed shot.

As for the new rounds. I don't think anyone can knock something until they have tried it and if it floats someone boats why rain on his parade.
As a side note my 22-250 performs very well for the task of spotlighting foxes.

Its the number he actually claims to have shot and been able to collect, so doesn't include the odd one he cannot find etc. He goes out three, four nights a week when the skins are in their prime. Also goes deer hunting up past Manfield somewhere.

Always chasing duck in season. Yep, a very keen shooter for around here. Been o's hunting, NZ a couple of times.

Pity the sheep!

Some of the keen gun-nuts around here might get a better average. I guess he streches the barrel and takes shots that would probably be best left. I am not sure as I have necer been spotlighting with him as he things 2, 3 am is an early night, even in mid winter with work the next day.

Personally, I need my eight hours of sleep to face the kids the next day. Getting to need more as i get older.

I also agree with the comment above about not raining on his parade. He is a b. good bloke, just talks a lot at times about his newest and greatest rifle.

Then again, just thinking, perhaps I do too!!

Lazzeroni would be nice. But I think the initial cost a little high (about $7,000) and each loaded round about $5? But it would be great fun.

G'day All. Yes, I have to agree, I didn't mean to sound as if I'm raining on anyones parade. Just that some of the latest and greatest, shiny new bits of kit, sometimes aren't all they are cracked up to be. I took a 223wssm and my old 22/250 out into the paddock, and with an identical 250m zero, both using 55gr Win factory loads, the 223wssmshot all of 1" flatter at 350m.
Is it worth the hype? Maybe, but not to me. I'll stick with the chamberings I can buy cartridges for in small country towns, thanks.
Once they have solved the inital problems, who knows? Maybe I will buy one. Maybe a 243wssm, since I don't have a 243 or 6mm. No big deal to start from scratch with a new caliber.
If you don't have a 22 centerfire, and want something new, why not? Plenty of articles in the gun mags to help you choose!
Greybeard, is the ground cover thick up around your way? If so, then 1 in 3 is about par for the course. Have to agree with robe0280, once the little buggers have been shot at and missed, they get bloody hard to get close to.
Let us know how you get on with the 204?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Well fellas what ever you think the WSM's are her to stay like them or not. http://www.shortmags.org
Dont know about the WSSM's yet.

If I wanted a new flat shooting varmint rifle it would be in 204 ruger without doubt.

http://www.204ruger.com/index.htm

The 204 has some advantages over all the fore mentioned cartridges.

1. Its just as flat shooting,if not more so
2. Barrel life will be better than all of the others especially the 223 WSSM.
3. It isn't as noisy as the others or has as much muzzel blast(223 not included here)
4.Virtually no recoil means you can watch your bullet impact through the scope.

As soon as I can afford it i'm getting a 204 ruger

Reply to Sambar 9.3

Sambar and everyone,

I hope I never say anything on this Forum to upset anyone. I just don’t like causing raised blood pressure with any one. I get enough of it at school every day.

If I have posted anything that offends anyone, please let me know and I’ll pull my horns in.

Goiing back to me mate with the .223 WSSM. He bought one of the first ones here, put a very extensive Nightforce on it (I don’t know the magnification), started to shoot quite a few foxes and we all heard. Bought heaps of reloading gear, as we all do.

As I have said before, I admire (and like) him as a bloke and I admire his hunting skills. I hear also that he is a great Shearer but I haven’t seen him in action. I just guess I was getting sick of hearing that swear word, “223 WSSM†as it became for a while.

He told me tonight that he still thinks his old .22-250 was within a bee’s dick of it. We have to set up for our anniversary Field and Game shoot tomorrow (Sporting Clays to our US members), and we all have to get to the club tomorrow to set up the stands for Sunday. 100 targets.

Anyway. The country around here is nearly all flat (and I mean FLAT) cerial growing country but a little further south, it becomes a bit more hilly. We can see the Grampians from here as it is so flat!

Around Christmas time, when there are heaps of young pups around, almost any hunter can get a few. But they tend to be in Commodores or similar, using a .22 or .22 WRM, and only go ot about once a year.

They are the types of wankers that give us all a bad name. Once or twice a year shooters.

They are the type of person who don’t get their Licence through me.

Yep. Very flat. We drive the stubbles that are left in late winter for foxes, we drive the swamps with motor bikes and dogs for foxes about this time of the year, we spotlight for them but not quite yet.

The foxes by now are very cunning.

Last weekend, we drove a few swamps and got a few sightings of foxes.

I personally think about the first shot at a young one teaches them to leave the area the next time around.



What surprises me at times around here is the lack of knowledge of foxes and their habits. I was talking to a few guys at the gun club one day and I said how territorial foxes can be.

Blank looks,

I mentioned a set of eyes we had all been trying to get for months last year and one guy said that those eyes belonged to different foxes. Mentioned that male dominant foxes were incredibly territory wise and it had to be the same fox.

I still think that hose fox turds on sheep traila aren’t just laid there for fun. The male fox can have mpre than one vixen but not visa versa. The eyes that disappear so fast on many nights is often that bloody cunning old dog who has a couple in his harem and he knows the score. I believe that if you get the old boy, it can take a while before another dog can take over.

WHAT RAVINGS.


Coming to you thanks to VB.

As I have said, if I offend, let me know and I will stop raving.

Even stop appearing.

Beer!!!

Greybeard

I am another person who thinks that the WSMs and WSSMs are just a gimmick and that they are simply intended to con shooters into spending money on new ideas that do not work all that well.

From the experiences of some of my shooting mates, they do not offer anything that we don't already have. The short, stumpy designs are never going to feed as smoothly or reliably as the longer, more slender cartridges and I do not understand why you would want to trade off magazine capacity, either. To quote one example, one friend of mine bought a .300WSM to replace his .30/06 but when he found that it wouldn't shoot accurately at any load faster than the .30/06 could produce he sold it off, pronto, and reverted to his .30/06.

I do some work as a rep for one of the firearms importers and, as such, I am often talking to the staff of various gunshops and I am amazed at how poorly the WSMs and WSSMs are selling and the staff, of at least some of these shops,are quite opposed to them and do not promote them to prospective customers unless the customers ask for them.

You will NEVER find a WSM/WSSM in my gun safe - NEVER!

Replying to two above

We went out cruising around the local farms this afternoon.

Saw a rabbit near a warren under a sheoak at a guessed distance of 300 odd yards. I was going to use our .22-250 Ruger Varmint but decided to see if I ( not the rifle) was capable of such a shot.

So I used the .204, gave what I thought was about a foot above the back and we got him.

I have been thinking of getting another rifle in the middle of the road power ( I mean between the .222 Rem and our two .30-06's.

Now, am considering trading our standard .204 for a Ruger Varmint in .204, of course.

I wouldn't buy a WSSM because of what I hear the locals who have them.

Gun writers always do their best to talk up new calibres.

BTW, the cross hairs were a bit "wavey" at about 12 power I think, bnecause of last night.

Too much damn beer.

And again, I am sorry to those I may have upset.

And I just thought, I have a desire to own either a .25-06 or .270 for those long shots on roos around here.

And pigs when we go up into outback NSW next.

Love shooting.

Anyway, we have decided to miss the Anniversay Sporting Clays shoot to-morrow as it just costs too much. Three shooters, noms and cartridges. Even though my son is still paying junour rates and my missus, lady rates, it would end up extensive.

150 cartridges each minimum. And a case is $140 odd for the ones we are shooting at present.

Toooooo dear!