A photo of the wild, rugged and beautiful Fiordland . Home of the NZ Wapiti.

Beautiful.

Country to get the heart racing. Nice pic.

Nice country, but probably too warm, for my Nordic metabolism.
Grizz

Spectactular country on a fine day thats for sure. Its a pity the great animals that were once there are long gone; now all you can hope for is a hybred which is neither one or the other. Hardly worth the effort .Great game management?

Still some very nice aniamls come out of there.

This big boy was shot there last year.

Yes, I have seen that pic before and what a great hybred it is. Probably one of the best animals taken in the last 20 years, but heads like that are not the norm. Plenty of red deer in that one alright . The days of seeing animals with big cream coloured bodies and throw backs are finished.

If you were to put a reasonable American elk anong side that it would be like comparing chalk and cheese..

Only a day on a plane to hunt pure bred Elk

So you would have passed it up then?

Around 1995 I drew the coverted George river block and hunted the first period. When you work out the costs in getting out there and back. Team that with the chances of running into something that resembles a wap in the first place. A bloke would be far smarter hunting a proper one in Colorado. I would shoot that one in a flash, the hybred animals we saw were only half that length and ugly in comparison.

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Originally posted by Australia:
Hardly worth the effort .

Australia, I hear what your saying, but I'd rather keep going back to Fiordland for a crack at a decent Fiordalnd deer. Yep, they're certainly not pure bred, but it would be wishful think to expect that after more than 100 years of interbreeding with reds.

Most people get into Fiordland for the first time and never return because of the wet weather, sand flys and tough. The Wapiti Foundation and Trust are doing a GREAT job at improving the quailty of the herd of recent years by removing reds and poor wap type animals by aerial culling after the bugle.

The fact remains, for a reasonable price and some luck in the ballot, you get a great chance to hunt wap type bulls that a exceeding 50 inches in the middle of the bugl, without having to send the stupid money that required to hunt them in the US. Also, you can obviously hunt Fiordland on your own unlike the US where you must use a guide. And for those who think a 50 inch plus wap bull in US is easy to come by, you're dreaming. There's been many Aussie hunter go over to Canada and the US with high hopes of great bulls only to come home empty handed, or having shot a lesser animal. For those top bulls in North America, you will pay BIG money for access into the good areas, or else you will be competing with plenty of locals chasing average bulls.

Again, they're not pure wapiti in Fiordland, but they bloody well look and sound the genuine article. And you get to hunt them in one of the most beautiful, remote and demanding country in the world.

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Again, they're not pure wapiti in Fiordland, but they bloody well look and sound the genuine article. And you get to hunt them in one of the most beautiful, remote and demanding country in the world.

AND ITS REAL HUNTING TOO IF A BLOKE IS WILLING TO GO THE HARD YARDS... a good handy head coming out of there in a walk in hunt is worth way way more than a hand held hunt elsewhere as we all know there are a lot of the big boys OS in the mags that come out of the 'ranch' too.

I have continually read my Banwell books over the years ,especially "wapiti in NZ" and what a story is told,what incredible heads were taken...and lost! That blood is still there but diluted of course with the reds but by gee there will be more fantastic hybrids come out of there again and again....no lesser a trophy in my mind!

You don't have to pay an Outfitter to hunt Elk in US,we can put for a ballot just like US residents.

I'm not 100% sure but,Montana being the only state you need to be US resident.

Dont get me wrong I had a great trip in there, a mate of mine encounted heavy rain for 10 out of the 11 days he had on his hunt. Bummer!

But we dont live forever and you only get a few chances to take major trips in your life between house repayments, marrige and kids. So your silly if you dont work out the numbers.

Forgot to mention, that bull in the photos Top Predator posted was taken in the Wapiti river block, the same one I hunted this year. Saw 3 good shootable bulls but couldn't get the drop on them. One was about 10 metres away, his head hidden by scrub. I could shot him and would've if I had seen his head! Yet another hard luck story from Fiordland.

Spartan can we have some more photos from your trip please??

quote:

Originally posted by TOP_PREDATOR:
You don't have to pay an Outfitter to hunt Elk in US,we can put for a ballot just like US residents.

I'm not 100% sure but,Montana being the only state you need to be US resident.

Yeah but you will have to borrow a gun most likely...

You can do a guided hunt in Montana....dont think you can do a self guided one but not sure.

I think the wild NZ wapiti should be appreciated for what it is and the hunt not compared to those of other countries.

quote:

The fact remains, for a reasonable price and some luck in the ballot, you get a great chance to hunt wap type bulls that a exceeding 50 inches in the middle of the bugl, without having to send the stupid money that required to hunt them in the US. Also, you can obviously hunt Fiordland on your own unlike the US where you must use a guide. And for those who think a 50 inch plus wap bull in US is easy to come by, you're dreami

How many 50 inch wapiti bulls come out of Fiordland each year?? Just wondering...

You can do a guided hunt in Montana....dont think you can do a self guided one but not sure.

Yes thats what i mean,non-residents can't hunt without a guide.

Post 9/11 not sure about importing firearms now

Matt, I suspect very, very few genuine 50 inchers come out of Fiordland presently. However, if the young promising bulls in the mid 40 inch range are allowed to get some age, we'll see some modern day monster bulls coming from Fiordland.

This contry is massive, and is remote. Combine that with the ongoing efforts to manage the herd, I reckon the future of the NZ wapiti is alot better now than its been in some 30 years.

Firstly you can hunt in Montana unguided if you are a non resident. I looked it up, a tag will set you back around $900 bucks. A Victorian guy went last year and shot one on public land that went 455 Douglas on his first attempt. Well worth cosidering since one has not been shot in Fiordland that size in probably 50 years.

Great to hear the future of the Fiordland herd is starting to look a little brighter. As for 50 inch heads, when you look back through the records not that many were ever shot in the sceme of things. A few each year until the mid sixties when things went pair shaped. Look at the year 1947 when only one good trophy was recorded. It went 46 inches long. I suppose a classic 50 inch 12 point bull has not been taken there for 35 years?

Australia, can you post any useful links about hunting in the States as I'd like to find out more about it.

More than 10 years ago I spent some time in the Alaskan bush, so most of my understanding of hunting in the States is about Alaska. I know at the time there was generally 3 types of hunting licences - resident, ie those living in Alaska: non-resident, ie Americans living other states; and aliens, ie foreigners. At that time aliens weren't allowed to hunt big game without a guide.

If you can hunt on public land without a guide, chasing quality bulls, then I'd love to to learn more about it. Cheers

Ask in the American big game section of this forum.

non-resident alien TAGs are what we need to apply for.

You are right we can't hunt Alaska without an Outfitter and there is at least one southren state we can't hunt Elk without an Outfitter must be Utah.

Plenty of Victorians have taken great bulls in MT hunting on Public lands. The tag has to be drawn but you have about a 50 % chance the first year and if you miss out it is garanteed the next .The biggest one that I have heard of coming back was shot in 2005 and scored 405 BC which would be about 490 Douglas points.

If you choose to be guided a outfitter sponsored tag can be brought for $1400 and your away. The better bulls are approaching the 60 inch mark and thicker than your arm. The tough Anzac type hunters bring them home more often than not. The soft locals who dont stray far from their pickups and whinge about the wolves aren't usually so lucky.
Boiled antlers ,tanned capes and rifles are easily brougt back into Aus.

If you look up fwp.mt.gov which is just Montana forest wildlife and parks, its all there mate.

thanks Aus for the link. I think my wife will get really mad about how this post is panning out! Seems I've got plenty of research to do.

Good info thanks Aussie...

Spartan - Alaska is the only USA state that I know of that an alien cannot hunt self-guided.

There may be others but I dont know of them....

I have hunted in - Nevada, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio and Georgia - so far, all hunting very easy to access. The best mountain hunting states like Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico - are all a bit harder with draws and such. Colorado is a popular state because it has a very large allocation...

A 50' wapiti/elk in anyone's book is a cracker, anywhere in the world.. IMO...

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If you were to put a reasonable American elk anong side that it would be like comparing chalk and cheese..

I dunno - that's still a 380SCI deer surely!! Prolly wouldnt go high in Douglas score but it is still a cracking wapiti by any standards!! IMO

If I had not already put the act of posting pictures on this site in the "too hard basket" I would have shown the difference between chalk and cheese. But its like these two dots -

. and O

went over 370 DS I beleive

Thanks - OK - if it was 370 Douglas then it would go close to (or over) 400 SCI and that puts it right up there with the best wild bulls of North America!!

The great Fiordland bulls reached their best in the virgin country that had never been grazed before. This mainly consisted of alpine grassland and seral forest. The percentage of trophy antlers (better than 420) lasted only a short time in a few locations. By the early sixties the once great bulls were all but finished. The greatest body weight recorded from a Fiordland bull was 835lb. Compare that to an American wapiti which have made 1328lb.

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think a NZ wap has made the base score requirement for inclusion into the trophy record book in 40 years. In 1969, P Boyak took a specimum that went 389 DS, which snuck in by 9 points.

A big modern day American wap will usally be only 12 or 14 points. If you drive through Yellowstone you wont see too many 17 or 18 pointers; most are just big 12's. Even with only 12 points a good bull will score between 450 and 500 on the Douglas. A biggest one that I have heard of being scored on the Douglas went around 550 DS !

The NZ record scores 474 but was taken 76 years ago. I would estimate that 40 or so of that size are shot every year in the USA.

I dont think anyone really thinks that there are any super bulls left in fiordland of course but the blood is in there and we mustnt forget that some of the finest wapiti did actually come from there albeit many years ago,try this 64 inch cast antler,thick as a long neck too!
And noone could say Phil Maurices monster couldnt compare with the best...it weighed antlers and skull without the lower jaw 48 pounds,he left it in the bush for two years (i think) as it was a pain to get the bastard out apparently.

Drive through Yellowstone today and you'll be lucky to see an elk at all, much less a big bull. The wolves took the 40,000 strong Yellowstone elk herd down to 3,000 for last years count. Now the hundreds of wolves are turning on each other in fights over hunting territories and also taking off to found new packs in surrounding states. The biologists put a collar on one young (2-year old) female and tracked her north into Montana, then west into Idaho, back south through Wyoming and Utah and on into Colorado where she died; though they haven't released why the wolf died. Traveled over 1000 miles (1500+ kilometers) in just a few months. And this wasn't the first Yellowstone wolf known to get into Colorado, there was another found as road kill on the shoulder of Interstate 70 (large highway in Colorado) two years ago. Will be only a matter of a few more years and the big Colorado Elk herds will get reduced to near nothing also.

read any books writen about the early wapiti hunting in Fiordland and every writer never shot the biggest bulls they saw for varying reasons, so in most cases the biggest animals were never shot. Even today the oldest bulls are very seldom seen even by the heli guys doing the trust culls, they stay in cover a lot.

A truly great wap has not been taken there for 50 years. They must hide in wombat holes during the day? Ha Ha

I think we all agree the Fiordland is a special place and it does have the only wap type animals in the southern hemisphere. Yes, Canada or America ( and possibly some central Asian countries such as Kazakistan?) are the places to go for BIG, pure wapiti - no doubt about it.

But Fiordland does have a herd of animals that is improving and does produce impressive heads, in my opinion. The trophy in the photo above was taken last year and went 390 Douglas, and another bull I know of, taken in 2005, went 360DS. I think these types of animals are worth the effort needed to hunt Fiordland.

However, since this post was started, I've been busy finding out more about self guided hunts in Montana. I'd appreciate more "how to" information from those in the know about organising a reasonably priced trip to America.

Just a thought when comparing North American elk, primarily those from the Rocky Mountain States against beasts from Fiordland.

As I understand the Wapiti in NZ are descendents of the Roosevelt strain of North American elk found in the Pacific North West and not the real big boys from the Rockies.... Correct me if I am wrong.

I gather that the Roosevelt elk are somewhat smaller than their cousins from further east, and have a different antler conformation, which probably scores lower if directly compared with bulls from the Rockies.

Do they have a separate category in the American "books" for Rocky Mountain & Roosevelt elk?

If I am correct in my assumptions, how do NZ's best, historically & present compare with those from Washington State, BC etc.? I recently saw a set of antlers from a BC bull elk taken by a Kiwi hunter, that while large & impressive were not massive.

How do you score a hybrid (DS etc.)? I guess they would score lower than a pure wapiti if scored as such, and well against wild red stags.

No doubt a hard hunt in Fiordland, with probably smaller heads and a lowish success rate on big bulls.. but one I would love to do one day....better start submitting those ballots!

Of course if you are interested in huge heads chasing Maral would be an alternative to elk in the US.

More questions than answers I'm afraid.

Joe