To all who love our Sport.

Please read the article at the following link, use the Comment facility at the bottom of the page and flood the Herald Sun with eMail. Make it loud, make it long.

If these changes are implemented it could well be the end of our sport.

Your Marlin and Winchester lever actions are under direct threat.

Re-Classification is simply seizure without compensation. A Political slime trick to avoid the Constitution of Australia. If they succeed we are finished.

Herald Sun

Consider my post done! but with the freedom of the press! I wonder If they'll have the guts to print it ?
Dave

The link didnt seem to work for me. What is the article generaly about? What does it say?

Done. Thanks for the link.

It will be interesting to see if they print any replies as if the Herald sun is owned by the NEWS CORP group! It would be well to note that Dear Old Rupert Murdock is one of our greatest opponents for the ownership of firearms ! (Australias lose was the US"s nightmare)

Thanks HiWall , consider it done.

Looks like Johnny Howard is not the only dickhead in government .
This must be to stop all those would - be - Martin Bryants with model 2 BRNO's .
The message here is join the S.S.A.A. now .Don't expect the media to help us out , no matter how loud we whinge .

So much for the much touted "Uniform" gun laws then...

Why is it that this kind of crap just appears seemingly from nowhere?
No warnings at all, just here you go guys, eat shit.
Traffic laws, tax law, IR laws, months, maybe years of debate and hints/warnings etc.
Gun laws, nothing. Bang, it's law (seemingly) overnight, no consultation, nothing.

I wonder if Raytrade will take any responsibility for bringing this to a head, importing a firearm that whilst legal, was almost certain to bring about this reaction? Military looking, potential to utilise large capacity magazines... you would have thought they'd be a bit more cluey. Now their Rem7600's etc will all be in jeopardy. Not happy Jan!
Cheers...
Con

Walked into my gun store to see a black 7600 trigged out with torch, scope and god nows what all over it. Then overheard the owner who worked behind the counter say they only managed to sell a few of the 10 shot .223 versions before the police came in and stopped them.

His rifle would look really good across the news to cover new gun reforms. Just like they used pictures of assualt rifles to cover news on the firearms laws that took away all the old pump and auto 12 gauges in SA where assualt rifles were already heavily restricted.

But if the police come across gun store attendants with that sort of 'hardware' and trying to sell 10 shots behind their back they can't be expected to be the voice of reason on our behalf

As we have seen previously it only takes one 'nut with a gun' to slander all 'gun nuts'

I saw that gun at my store a couple of months ago, and I new it would be trouble......it was, with our fucked up Government pushing the barrow. Don't get me wrong it should not be banned period but now all the regular pumps & levers will be jeprodised, now you lose your 30/06 & .308 4 shot pumps because of this thing, they had skipped the radar nicely until now

I have a feeling long range wifles will be next, your Rem 700 Varmint gun with 20x leupold.

It's disgusting

The 'BAN' applies to "detachable magazines exceeding 10 rounds"
While I don't think there should be a ban on anything, the hype & howah shows clearly that shooters should engage brain before hysterically lobbying their local politian with rumours & enuendo before knowing the facts.
We then become outcasts, pests and undesireables in their eyes as in (OMG here we go again)
Consequently now she doesn't even bother to reply!

quote:

The 'BAN' applies to "detachable magazines exceeding 10 rounds"
While I don't think there should be a ban on anything, the hype & howah shows clearly that shooters should engage brain before hysterically lobbying their local politian with rumours & enuendo before knowing the facts.
We then become outcasts, pests and undesireables in their eyes as in (OMG here we go again)

BAW I think the problem here is the fact that the average shooter is starting to wake up to the fact that he has been screwed before & the best methord of defence is attack! & They have had enough of being pushed around ! Through uot the last 2 debarcles (bans & buy backs ) We Pros wer'nt affected in the least as we still have semmi autos in some cases & farmers are still allowed handguns for pest control under certian cases ! But at the end of the day it was the Bloody insult to us that we had to justify our selves

We were discussing this matter at my local rifle range, tonight, and one of our local SSAA officials, who normally is well intune with legal issues, commented that this move against larger magazines had been rejected by the Police Ministers conference and, as there is a national agreement on firearms lawmaking, is unlikely to develop into new laws in Victoria.

Nevertheless, we should always be vigilant because you can bet that whoever came up with this idea to restrict us further, will not give up and, like the pathetic and misinformed anti-4WD debate, it will keep coming back to haunt us.

Yes we can do more harm than good starting the attack before we have our facts straight. I have requested a copy of the proposed changes in legislation.

The news article stated
The Government is proposing to reclassify pump and lever-action centrefire rifles, which use a five-or-more shot magazine, from a Category B to Category C firearm.
The same will occur for bolt-action centrefire rifles, and pump or bolt-action rimfire rifles,*** that can use** a 15-or-more shot magazines

I will be interested to see what the actual changes will be but the news article could be mistaken to refer to any rifle that accepts a magazine.

G'day All,
Well, that's my polite letter of inquiry off to the Herald sun, bet they don't publish it!
And yes, I also wonder if raytrade will accept responsibilty for this mess? Thanks very much, idiots! Now I, and hundreds of others may lose our standard 760/7600's, thanks to their quest for a quick buck!
Oh, and for anyone not worried, the Govt CAN take individual types of firearms and shift them to a different category. In other words, in Vic, your pump action rifle can all of a sudden become category R. Or even worse, a prohibited import, which is what happened to the 7600 223 Rem, no permits granted. Not a pleasant thought, Eh?

quote:

And yes, I also wonder if raytrade will accept responsibilty for this mess? Thanks very much, idiots! Now I, and hundreds of others may lose our standard 760/7600's, thanks to their quest for a quick buck!

Is anyone losing their rifles at this stage? And what proof is there that it is the importation of the Remington pump .223s that is to blame? It is interesting that, after months of deliberating on their legality, Australian Customs have released them for sale!

Might I suggest that this is the wrong way to think about this issue. Raytrade haven't brought these firearms in just to make a quick buck and to screw over the shooters of Australia (and I am not just defending Raytrade as I actually work for one of their competitors!).

These firearms were brought in because shooters, like myself, have a need and a desire to own them. In addition to being an avid African big game hunter, keen sambar hunter and general pest exterminator, I am also an IPSC shooter who, back in the good ole' days, was very competitive in shooting IPSC rifle. For this match, the ideal firearms were AR15 HBARs, SLRs, SKKs and AAAs. Then, when little Johnny Hitler (oops, done it again!)...Howard, STOLE my sport I have long wanted to be able to get back to IPSC rifle. Now that these Remington .223s are available, we have a chance to resurrect IPSC rifle and if the sport can grow and become strong we might, one day when that idiot Howard is gone, be able to get back some of our semi-autos, as well. Yes, I know that this is a long shot (excuse the pun) but I think we need to keep pushing to get all of our shooting sports back and not just accept the stupid laws that have been forced upon us. One of the worst traits of all of us Australians is our propensity to stick our heads in the sand and hope that the political 'storm' leaves us alone.

And how can anyone blame an importer who brings in a firearm that is legal under the current system if the politicians go and move the goal posts, again? What is the legal difference between a Remington Pump action chambered for a .223 as opposed to one chambered for .30/06 or .35 Whelan - all of them can be fitted with 10 shot magazines and there are plenty of people capable of extending 10 shot magazines out to 20 or more (and I am sure that this has been done more than once)!

I might also mention that it is high time that Australian shooters woke up to the fact that the politicians are working with a 'divide and conquer' approach to the destruction of the shooting sports. Just because they (those worthless politicians) are targeting someone else's firearms doesn't mean that the rest of us should sit back and do nothing and hope that, by doing so, we will escape the insanity (as many shooters have done before) because, I can tell you now, .... WE WON'T!

When the politicians have whittled us down to a small number, then they will get rid of the remaining guns and shooters with ease.

We have to stick together and not put blame, that belongs with politicians and stupid laws, on other shooters!

I'll climb off my soapbox now...

Bwana Bob, the latest from Vicpol on the Rem 7615's indicates that NO permits to accquire will be approved.
I also used to shoot ipsc at state and national level, unfortunately I don't think anyone seriously belives we will get back what was taken (stolen) from us. We are ALL going to have to fight hard just to keep from losing what we have left! This includes not giving those slimy bastards in Canberra ANY excuse to make things worse! I'd like to see my M1A national match (.75 MOA) again, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
O.K, Rant over with, and hopefully no hard feelings anywhere. Now maybe someone can come up with a constructive way to fight this continuing encroachment on our sport?

Bwana Bob, Sorry, I forgot to mention the reason given for the refusal to issue permits to accquire for the Rem 7615's. 'No legitimate sporting purpose'

Non illegitium carborundum!

quote:

the latest from Vicpol on the Rem 7615's indicates that NO permits to accquire will be approved

I hope that this doesn't come to pass as there doesn't appear to be a problem with puchasing them in NSW. I just bought mine today and the dealer, where I bought it, is doing a brisk trade on these rifles as there is a strong move to start shooting IPSC rifle at Malabar rifle range.

Considering that we are meant to have Uniform, National Laws and that the Police Commissioners Conference has already decided NOT to ban these firearms, I wonder if VICPOL won't be forced to toe the line along with the rest of the country.

I might also mention that when the Norinco lever action shotguns turn up, in the next couple of months, then IPSC shotgun should also get a 'shot in the arm, too. (and I know that there were some people who thought that lever action shotguns would get the chop, too - but they haven't!).

quote:

and hopefully no hard feelings anywhere

No hard feelings here, nor any offence taken - I just believe, VERY STRONGLY, that Aussie shooters need to pull together and to support each others interests/disciplines (even if we do not like those interests/disciplines) or else we will be taken out, one discipline at a time, until there are so few of us left that Johnny Hitler, and his "black-booted" supporters will be able to eradicate the rest.

BwanaBob,
Are you sure the importer didn't chase a quick dollar? This firearm has been imported into Australia for quite awhile and there was no move to stop its importation ... what happened to suddenly put it under so much scrutiny? Cheers...
Con

guys
no offence to any body...we lost it in 96 when we handed in the semi autos, if we showed solidarity then and not handed them in ,those political parasites would have been put on notice and would have thougt twice about banning anything else.
we are living on borrowed time as far as gun ownership goes in this country and soon its going to be difficult to justify owning a rifle here in victoria once they start poisoning the sambar...and its going to happen sooner than we all think
the BRUNO M2 can be had with a 10 shot clip...what does that spell
daniel

Daniel,
Just so you can sleep a little easier tonight. The "ban" will not include your old Brno etc... but if you've a 15 shot magazine you may end up needing to apply for permission to own that...??? Likewise, some report has just been released, heard it on the ABC, that found Sambar to be a negligable influence on native ecosystems.
Cheers...
Con

Con, I can't comment on the .22 15shot mag question except to say, since they aren't registered, how will "they" find them? But the sambar question yes, you are right. Via Gamecon and the HAC, the report (DSE's own report) showed that the deer in the Alpine National park had minimal impact on the environment, and as such did not warrant moving them to the noxious animals catergory. Mind you the HAC, and most of the hunting clubs lobbied quite hard too!
Now we can all take a breath, and get ready for the next fight!

Cheers, Dave.

G'day All, the latest from VICPOL on the Rem 7615 is that applications for permits to accquire, will be accepted from PRO SHOOTERS only. Hey, it's a start! Now we need to try for a "legitimate sporting purpose"!

Cheers, Dave.

Sambar,
A "legitimate sporting purpose" already exists, its called IPSC competition. VicPol knows this! Why do you think so many (1500 as quoted in the TV media) tried to be imported so fast?
Cheers...
Con

Gents,
I spoke about this matter with Bwana Bob today on the phone. Victoria alone cannot institute such legislation without furthern approval & concerns of other States if so called "Uniformed Australian Gun Law" is what is what it was meant to be !

The mechanism behind such rumors and news is like this:
Media people, journous another words, they are always desperate to get ANY shocking news from whatever quarters.That is how they make their money. The easiest way for them to get any such cheap info is to go to their pals at the nearest cop shop and get the latest about blood & guts & car chasing & rapes & pedophiles from their daily reports. Such crap does wonders to fill up everyday news on TV or in tabloids and brings money to journous, they are paid for what words and not for the contents of the news, contents to be damned. Sometimes their cop pals aks them a favor - we will give you the latest statictics from the latest night how many people been shot or raped etc but could you write a nice story on how the crime rates are climbing please ? We need some more fundings from the public to buy morew bikes, cars, phones etc and most of all, to hike up our wages a little. the easiest way would be to write about toughening gun laws, public and politicians will love that because:

Nothing can be done about it anyway, we wont' be asked to make our arses to move out of our office chairs - everyone knows nothiong sensible can be done here

Politicians will love the topic - toughen the laws and make our country safer and scared the sheep and cow like public shitless

We Cops we may get some more funding for our uniforms, office computers and cars without getting our arses out of our chairs

And you journos you will get your money for writing just about anything anyway - howzzat ?

Such mechanism works all right in UK and in Europe (I am in touch with one of my hunting mates who himself is a cop with London Police Force) and it probably works the same wonders in US and Canada.

The answer to that ?
Fight media and not Law Enforcement Agencies because the latters hate changes much the same way as we hunters do. Few of the police officers who run weapons licensing branches in some States had already privately told me that .

When reasoning with Worldwide beaurocracy and public service elephantine monsters never apply a common sense. When trying to do something here, the best way is not to reason with the top - blokes who are on top are there only for a limited time, in a few years they will be shuffled to new and somwhere exotic positions, while they subordinates will always enjoy the life synecures - the lower position they have in the pyramide of power, the safer they are and more reluctant to implement any changes, no matter where such requirements are coming from ! Therefore, undermine the pillars of the concrete slab, do not target the top !

I may bring such issue to the attention of John Tingle ( I know him personally I believe, but it has yet to be seen what will come out of it !

If Shooters Party of Australia cannot help us here, I am inclined to start my own "Beer Drinkers Party of Australia" - I believe I will have some followers once I start this scheme !

Les from Sydney

Guys,
Anyone know whether the large capacity magazines for the 7615 are Remington products or M16/AR15 magazines?
Cheers...
Con

G'day All, has anyone else had a visit from their DFO reference 760/7600's? Mine arrived last night to check that my 760 was actually a 270, not a 223, and that it could not take AR15 mags.
OK Bwana Bob, is it time to panic yet?

Con, According to the DFO, since the 7615's can be fitted with 30rd AR15 mags, pest destruction / pro shooter only. Sort of backs up the talk I got from Wpns Licensing. As I understand it, VICPOL will not grant a permit to purchase for one of these, unless to a pro shooter. I wonder how the one I saw at SSAA Little River got there? Must be one of the 3 that got away before they decided these guns were naughty!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum