When the media goes on and on about the police's new "shoot to kill policy"
Since when did they shoot to wound? You aim for the centre of the seen mass, the chest area, you don't aim for the arms/legs.

Its called "sensationalism". Will soon become a reality.

The media and a lot of the public have a mistaken belief that the police are there to protect them, the reality is they are there to enforce the law .

If you take my in-law & nephew as examples of modern policemen, both simply shoot and are REAL happy to just hit something.

I shot at a pistol club in the south east corner of Qld.The were telling me the timber around the target frames has to be replaced every three months since the local coppers use it for practise.It was lasting for two years when only the members used it.

Recovered from another range I was shooting at. Our tax dollars at work.

You should see some members in the RAAF shoot.

One bloke got 10 hits out of 36. You needed 18 to qualify.

Part of the problem is that there is NO actual training conducted in how to shoot a handgun.

In the RAAF, the Adgies (Airfield Defence Guards - for all you non-military types) do the training and spend most of their time teaching you how to clean the gun. The most comprehensive range briefing and instruction on how to shoot, I've even had, came from a corporal who said "This is the 9mm Browning and you might as well throw it at the enemy as shoot at them"- end of training!

As a long time pistol shooter I took exception to this nonesense and volunteered for the job of Pistol Training Officer for 11 Squadron. We had guys who had never qualified, just as Bakes said, and were struggling to get 11 hits out of 30 - and you needed 18 to qualify. And we are talking hits ANYWHERE in the scoring area of the target - don't even ask about centre-of-mass hits!

I put together a simple classroom lecture, including OHPs, of the correct way to hold a pistol, sight picture, trigger control, etc. and then we ran a qualifying shoot a couple of days later and everyone passed easily - it is amazing what happens when people are actually taught what they have to do.

Similarly, when I was a member of Sale Pistol Club (Victoria) we ran an annual competition where we would invite the RAAF, Army, local police and prison guards to an IPSC shoot-off. The club always won easily and by a huge margin. But what sticks in my mind was a very pretty young policewoman who afterwards asked for some instructions in how to shoot because she had NEVER been taught anything about sight picture, trigger control or any of that. Each year she, like all the other coppers, would be given 30 rounds for practice and qualification and they would simply pray (Spray and Pray -we call it!) that they would miraculously hit the target - it is really a 'criminal' situation that that is the standard of our police force and the likes of little Johnny Hitler won't let us protect ourselves and expects us to put our faith in people with NO training!

As an aside, I use a simple reminder when teaching pistol shooting (and I use it on myself everysingle time I am about to pull a handgun from the holster and shoot).. The reminder is: Grip - Foresight - Squeeze, which I remember as: Good F@%king Sense!

The average copper hs no interest in guns. Here in Victoria training only occurs twice a year for a couple of hours.

The Adgies? Isn't that a synonym for laughing stock? Even in the RAAF?
I seem to recall the most proficient firearms handler I ever saw in the RAAF was a blackhander. Used to shoot about 720 or so in service pistol.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Did you notice that the only bullet hole in the target is near the gun? Under pressure, the untrained tend to shoot at the perceived threat rather than the vital zone.
Avoid target fixation!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Without a doubt, for most of the ADF (SF excluded, of course), the best shots are those members who are also sporting shooters because the military do not conduct adequate marksmanship training.

Let me tell you another story....

....Bakes is thinking, oh no, who started the 'old timer' off???!!!!.....

....the maritime squadrons used to do month-long detachments at Butterworth in Malaysia and each year you would end up doing around two months in country. At any given time there would be two crews/aircraft with a two-week stagger on the month-long rotation. While there we would fly one day, while the second crew stood SAR (Search and rescue) standby for us. The next day would be a non-flying day and the third day the flying/SAR roles would be reversed, and so on and so forth.

When not flying we would do ground training but for a break from classroom work I would always approach the Army units in the area to arrange some shooting - sometimes with 9mm Brownings, or SLRs or, occasionally with F1s. On one particular detachment I cornered an Army Captain in the mess one night and asked him about some shooting for the crew and he said, with an odd smile, that he would see what he could arrange.

2 days later an Administrative Instruction turned up at our unit for a competition between the army unit in country (I forget which RAR it was at the time) and the Kiwi unit, that was coming up from Singapore to compete and that 92WG (us) were invited to provide a "novice team".

Teams were meant to be 8 shooters and I was only able to find 7 and of the 7 only 2 of us were regular shooters, 1 was an occasional shooter and the rest had only shot their qualification shoots with the RAAF - the army kindly lent us their worst shooter to make up our team number and it was obvious, from the moment we arrived on the range, that we had only been invited for entertainment - or so they thought!

We had a choice of either SLR or M16 and, as none of us had shot the M16, we all opted for that weapon so we could try it out so none of us were experienced with shooting 5.56 and certainly not out to 300 yards as we shot on that day but in no time at all, the army's jeers and snide remarks disappeared and were replaced by a deathly silence.

At the end of the shoot, the Kiwi Major came first, I was second, my fellow shooting aviator (now Group Captain Dave Richards) came third and the rest of our team was spread throughout the top half of the scores - the Australian Army were down the bottom!

Then, with some ammo left over, they decided to have a falling plate shoot. We had to run from 300 yards to 200 yards, in full webbing, hit the mound and engage 14 steel plates for the fastest time to win. Having already won glory on that field, we decided to have fun and all of us selected full-auto. I had only fired 13 rounds, in short bursts, when the range officer screamed "cease fire". My first thought was, Oh god, someone has had an accident, someone is hurt, someone has shot someone!!!!!

But when I looked up all the steel plates were gone and most of us still had rounds in the magazine - we came second, after the Kiwis!

After the shoot the Kiwi Major came up, shook all of our hands and said "I take my hat off to you guys" .... the Australian Army never said a word and they were sullen and dark and, for the rest of the detachment that we were there, they were on the range practicing, almost every day!

That is an example of the standard for shooting in the military.

BwanaBob, nope that would be SF included! Most of the guys I have run into in that field are also sporting shooters.
F1's? Now you are showing your age!
Besides, the shock would have done the grunts some good! Get them down the range and into the routine.
When the battalion I was posted to went to RCB, if you didn't pass the Transitional Application, or qualify for the Crossed Rifles (marksmanship award), you didn't get leave!
First time around, only the medic qualified. Jeez, that night out was boring!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Every Battalion was the same, do the march in, put up with all the slagging off about pogues, get to the range, and watch everyone shut the fuck up when the scores were posted!
Hey! I wasn't always a medic! When you shoot 500 rds a week in practice, you can't help but get better at it.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Easy_rollins,

Perhaps I've been under the wrong impression, but I have always thought policemen carried sidearms to prevent aggitated criminals from causing them or someone else harm. Since the police don't appear to place much emphasis on marksmanship, are they better with knives and blunt objects? Or are the criminals in Australia less violent than here in the US? How are they at hand to hand combat? Surely the police have to defend themselves from violent criminals everyonce in a while? Right?

I believe the phrase used by the Police Commissioner was 'Objective allocation of funding resources'. Which would seem to be doublespeak for 'no money for ammo for practice'? Or 'not enough cops on the streets to send anyone to the range to qualify more than once a year'?
If the cops are going to protect us, they must first be able to protect themselves. That means being able to get first round hits, at reasonable distances, under all conditions. If they cannot, they should be trained up to that standard. When I worked in the trade, if you couldn't get your first shot, from a clean, cold BBL, into a 4" circle, at indeterminate distances out to 300m, you got sent back down to the ranges until you could.
Admittedly, that is not General Patrol work but surely, first round, centre of mass hits with the service handgun, at the old seven yard standard, is not an unreasonable standard?
Or is it?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Hunters can't own semi-auto assault rifles because they are not a hunting weapon but they are designed "To Kill People"

The government equips it's police with semi-auto rifles which makes their real intentions quite clear to me!