Jeff Coopers Guide Rifle concept to me looks...well stupid! Thats just me though
Now I see Ruger has bought one out. Has anybody seen one in the Aussie/NZ bush? How bout our yank friends, have you seen one in the bush or are they only to be seen on the pages of the various gun mags?

Bakes ,
I agree , they look like crap and will probably have a similar level of longevity .
Since when was a low powered scope mounted in a "normal" position slow to use? Nothing to stop you shooting with both eyes open if that's what you like either .

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Jeff Coopers Guide Rifle concept to me looks...well stupid! Thats just me though
Now I see Ruger has bought one out. Has anybody seen one in the Aussie/NZ bush? How bout our yank friends, have you seen one in the bush or are they only to be seen on the pages of the various gun mags?

You are both right. They do look stupid. They are seemingly designed for people who never learned to shoot a scope with both eyes open.

Another gimmick for the Pilgrims.

IMHO, If you look at the original intent it's not a bad idea. But the whole concept has mutated over the years... btw, I think you're talking about a "Scout Rifle" the "Guide Gun" is a short barrelled thumper intended for use by guides to shoot hairy toothy critters off of paying clients

The scope is forward mounted to allow better access to the magazine and bolt handle. It just works out that they're pretty easy to shoot that way, my Marlin Guide Gun has a 1.5x Leupold pistol scope mounted Scout style and the only benefits are:
1. You can carry it with your hand wrapped around the receiver like a lever gun should be.
2. I haven't managed to scope cut myself with it (yet).

Some of the other parts of the Scout Rifle package have been left behind. The originals had integral bipods, provision to use stripper clips, Ching Slings, etc, etc.

Just a forward mounted scope does not a true Scout rifle make.

EDITED to add: I did see one at a Cabela's store in PA. It's a typical Ruger bolt gun stocked in plywood. Probably OK, but needs some (OK a LOT ) of work.

I hunted with one for several years and it worked pretty well. It's light, short and very fast. Having said that, I now use a conventional 308 with a lot of Scout features, and I shoot it just as well as my old Scout. The Scout was easier to carry, though.


Okie John

What sets the useful ones apart from the pretenders is the height of the scope's mount. Just about every example is way too high to be shot in the manner intended by Cooper and the others.

I've been privileged enough to have handled and shot many of the original Scout prototypes. Those few worked very, very well but something was lost in the translation when mass produced. The Ruger will fade quickly, even faster than the Steyr. To do it right is costly and addresses a narrow niche market. Not good business strategy, IMO.

Redial

A problem with a scout rifle, is that if you are shooting with the sun behind you, the glare can make it impossible to see through the scope.

I have the scout set up on my 50-110 lever gun......I had no choice as the action is a top eject. It is fast to aquire a sight picture but so are my normal low powered scopes. I would not bother with it unless you had an action that spat shells out the top, as it's more expensive to set up, my custom picatinny steel base cost me $350.00AUS.

quote:

I think you're talking about a "Scout Rifle"

Opps

Ever watch the Kevin Costner movie "Field of Dreams" ?

The quote from there - " If you build it they will come " can be roughly rehashed to " if you build it someone will buy it " when related to firearms .

If it is a new concept someone will have to have it , and sales increase . Same sort of ploy as the new short magnum calibres , dont kill things any deader but they are new so a percentage of the buying public "have" to have one .

I think the rifles in question look kinda funny , but then I guess I am a tradionalist that way anyhow .

Bakes, the Ruger, no haven't seen one, probably won't if the demand is anything to go by. The Steyr scout, seen quite a few, including mine, in either 308 or the 376 steyr.
Fjold, you are quite right, the forward mounted scope can be a real pain if the sun is low behind you while hunting. I guess maybe it doesn't do that at Gunsite Ranch?
The solution I used was to get rid of the scope, and fit a trijicon 6.5 MOA dot reflex sight, works fine out to 250m, (but i'm shooting Sambar, not rabbits, I don't think it would work for that sort of shooting) and no glare problems (so far). And it's much quicker anyway.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

The solution I used was to get rid of the scope, and fit a trijicon 6.5 MOA dot reflex sight

Yes, this is definitely the right approach. I have a Reflex (6.5MOA) on my .35 Whelan sambar rifle and it is an outstanding setup allowing fast shooting in any light - 24/7 (as our American friends are so fond of saying!). Mine is mounted just forward of the action so I have clear access to the 'workings' for fast reloads or clearing jams/misfeeds. I am planning on putting one on my Remington .223 pump, as well.

I also like the Trijicon Accupoint riflescopes, particularly the 1.25-4x and if you practice using the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) with this scope then it is a "rip-snorter"! While this scope is not an EER scope it more than makes up for not being mounted forward by being just very damn effective.

IMHO - the Scout rifle concept, in itself, is a bit of a gymick and I do not see any real advantage in it and will always prefer my scopes mounted just in front of my eyes and not hanging out on the barrel, waving in the breeze, for some marginal (and questionable) advantages.

If you want to keep the action clear and have the sights well forward, then go with the Reflex (or one of it's poor cousins - any of the red-dot sights).

Saw one of the rugers today, at the range. A 16" BBL .300 WSM!
With muzzle blast like that, who needs stun grenades? Even if you miss a close shot, the deer is going to have a heart attack!
The same rifle, with a 19 or 20" BBl, in 308, well maybe, as it certainly seems functional enough, and a damn sight cheaper than the steyr scout.
I would have thought a 300 mag would need maybe 24", minimum?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Shit, a short barrel on a .300 WSM ?
Might be good for scaring off dangerous game .

Yep, very impressive muzzle blast! Guy comes onto a full shooting line, all benches taken but one. He sets up there and starts to shoot. By the time he had three shots downrange, he also had three empty benches either side of him.
I was eight benches down, I it still made me jump every time it went off!
Dunno how you would manage to shoot it in the field, because it looked to be moving around a bit, too! Maybe a muzzle break, and plugs AND muffs?
Just another case of 'what's it for?'.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

quote:

Originally posted by BwanaBob:

Yes, this is definitely the right approach. I have a Reflex (6.5MOA) on my .35 Whelan sambar rifle and it is an outstanding setup allowing fast shooting in any light - 24/7

Sounds interesting - is there an Australian agent or did you import it your self? I would like to take a look at the different reticles if they are on offer over here.

Fergus

Imported mine myself, but there would be an agent somewhere over here. From the handbook that comes with it, there are several reticles. A 4.3 MOA dot, a 6.5 MOA dot, a 10.8 MOA dot and 12,9 and 5.1 MOA triangles.
I got the 6.5 Dot as that is the same as I was used to.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Yep, very impressive muzzle blast! Guy comes onto a full shooting line, all benches taken but one. He sets up there and starts to shoot. By the time he had three shots downrange, he also had three empty benches either side of him.
I was eight benches down, I it still made me jump every time it went off!
Dunno how you would manage to shoot it in the field, because it looked to be moving around a bit, too! Maybe a muzzle break, and plugs AND muffs?
Just another case of 'what's it for?'.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

If he had a muzzle break on the SOB 20 benches away wouldn't be far enough.

Well, good news - bad news.

The is an Australian agent. Its Granite Arms

Fergus

More bad news, now this little monster is available in the new 325WSM! In a 16" BBL? Now that's got to be one of the more pointless exercises in history.
In 308, maybe. In 300WSM or 325WSM? You have to be kidding.

Cheers Dave.

One of the farmers whose place I sometimes shoot on, got himself one of the Rugers in .308Win. It rides around in clips on the dashboard of his ute.
Looks to be ideal for a gun for that sort of thing, driving around, taking pot shots at pigs and roos.
Pretty good in the accuracy dept, about 1.5MOA.
One hell of a muzzle blast though.

Merry Christmas.

Cheers, Dave.

I've got one of the discontinued Savage versions of the Scout in 7-08. There is a Bushnell Trophy red dot on it with three reticle choices; I have no use for a scope on it. This makes for a light carry and comes to the shoulder effortlessly.

This almost made it with me on my last hog hunt as it would have handled beautifully in the thick oak where I hunt. Lost out at the last moment, though, to my 35 Whelen.

Yes, that's what the farmer is using, a red dot sight in 30mm Ruger rings.
We put his new rifle alongside my wifes Ruger 77mk2 (in 243) and the stock on the frontier seems to be shorter. It hasn't been shortened by the owner, do they come this way from the factory?

Cheers, Dave.

I rekon, chop the barrel back another 16" .... then fit a 20" light weight for your mountain rifle. Imagine firing 10 rounds from a 16 barrel at a mob of goats, youd be bloody deaf, one shot would be bad enough.