Does anyone know of where in Australia I can get a Lee Enfield MK111 303 converted to a 45.70 cal. Any info appreicated.
Thanks
Allan-vk4ale

Not very many around and getting costly as the supply diminishes. The defunct 45-70 Gibbs is the only one I know of...if you can find one. The problem is the rim on the 45-70 case. Even the Gibbs wouldn't feed all that well...and it was only rated at the low trap door pressure.

The Isapore 308 2A action with 12 rd mag is a better choice because of the higher strength metal in the receiver...it can handle higher pressures, closer to Lever gun numbers.

I'm doing one right now on a 2a action. I worked through a bunch of rimless cases and rim modifications on rimmed cases including a Rigby
case for single stack loading. A lot of work to find the 444 M and 458 WM worked the best.

The Rigby would have been nice but the cost of dies, cases, powder amount was just to prohibitive for the slight gain in velocity. I also tried 50 and 51 cals just for kicks using Rigby dummies, and I could get them to work but again the cost was just way beyond reality for all the components and didn't correlate to the receiver...way too many better ones out there to convert.

I could build you a rifle but would charge five times the cost of a high dollar custom Mauser and not guarantee a thing...but you would have a "janyouwine" custom, bragging rights, 45 - 51 cal jack handle.

I received my 45 cal barrel and 458 WM dies Thursday, threaded and fitted the receiver, rented a reamer late the same day (hope it will be here today) and loaded 10 rounds of 350 gr cast lead with 60 gr H335 to start the process.

After all the work needed, my suggestion is to forget using the SMLE action for a whole bunch of reasons, cost being one of them...the SMLE isn't worth the sweat unless you just want to throw money down a rat hole or if you can do all the work yourself and want a project to put knots on you head by banging you head against the doorjamb while working through the problems. A gunsmith will love you and will retire on your money if you let one get hold of you...especially in your neck of the woods, unless you can find one that has actually done conversions and is willing to to the work for a minimum of cost...AND can do the mag conversion work.

If you want something larger in caliber I would go with the 375/444. I originally started out with the JDJ then went nuts because I couldn't get a cheap Midway 375 cal barrel and I had a set of expensive 375/444 dies laughing at me.

I went with the first cheap Midway large cal barrel I could find and it happened to be a 458 and I had already worked through MOST of the problems for the most part. I'll know by next week if I just tossed 200 bucks down my favorite rathole...that rat has been fed well over the years.

Any of the JDJ's (338,35,9.3 or 375 or modified 308/'06 depending on the level of expertise in wildcatting you have) cases will work much better and is easier to get all the pieces and parts to work together.

One of the major problems is the mags and getting them to feed right, and needing a empty case length between 2.3" and 2.6" to fit well in the 5, 10 and 12 rnd mags.

EPPS in Canada did conversions at one time I understand, but now only uses 2a receivers. Check out his 'site.

Another good and simple conversion is the 338 Fed which would be just a barrel swap as the cartridge is the similar length as the 300 Sav/308 and no mag mods are required.

The SMLE action lends itself to relative simple conversions up to about 40 cal and COAL around 3.0" max with minimum problems, but go larger cal and the problems multiply.

vk4ale,
Forget the SMLE action, use a No4 minimum. Be prepared to pay good money and then watch it outstrip the price of a good S/H Marlin 45/70 during the building process.

I'm not againt Enfield conversions as I have a 303/270 and will be building a 303/35 very soon. I've lusted after a 45-something but would rather use a 45/90 case with turned down rims to match 303British spec and then load 350gr Hornady's. Getting the magazine to feed reliably is where the money would go. Years ago I saw a No4 in 444Marlin that was a gunsmiths pet project. It used a Mossberg 410 magazine from memory. I asked how much to do another and he basically replied: "You wouldn't want to be paying me for my time." Getting the feed correct was the main issue.

If you need a barrel, Hinterland Shooting Supplies in QLD is about to close their first order of Adams & Bennett barrels ... $180 for a 45cal profiled blank. You wont find cheaper in Australia.

From hazy memory ... Vic Pederson in the NT has built a 375/444 on an Enfield for a guy I correspond with on the Australian hunting net. I think Hornady has teh dies cheapish now too. That woudl be perhaps your best 'power-upgrade' but me personally I doubt there's very much that cant be shaken up with a 303/35 with a Woodleigh 225gr soft/solid combination.

FOOBAR,
Ever built an inline feed No4 magazine? Looking for pictures of one just in case I do go down the 45/90 route. Like you ... I'm inclined to build longterm projects that suck up cash from the coin jar.
Cheers...
Con

No pics yet, Con. The standard 5, 10, and 12 rnd mags seem to be working OK using the OEM 303 barrel stubbed to 4" and turned to fit the 459 WM case.

I did have some pics of a single stack 45-70 home made mag for the SMLE I picked off the net, but I lost 10 years worth of information in a hard drive crash and I've searched the net for the past 6 months trying to find the person who made the mag. I'm working up a simple design to turn the 308 mags into a semi-single stacker by funneling the rounds into a narrower neck similar to many high volume pistol mags.

The reamer didn't come in Sat so Monday noon it will be here and I will have the chamber cut soon after. I set up the fluid through the barrel system today so I can get a quick jump on it.....

I tried the 45-90 case and ground a toolbit to cut an extractor groove just in case. Both the 45-90 and 458 WM have almost identical case volumes. I'll bet either case will work in the same chamber and use the 458 WM dies if I cut it right. 0.066" to 0.068" case stickout will give me the right amount of headspace.

I used a set of 45-70 Lyman cowboy dies to do most of the sizing and seating work before the 458 WM dies came in.

Again, my reasons for staying away from any rimmed case is problems getting mags to work, although I tried using a 303 mag, I settled on the 308 mag because it fit the trigger bow and the 303 mag stuck in it.

The 303 mag is still a possibility, should work with rimmed cases better and the difference in case capacities between the 444 M and the 303 Epps version isn't enough to break wind over.

I'm looking for a good #4 right now to do some playing with along those lines.

I understand the 2a Isapore action has higher strenth steel rated for the 308 but the #4 is plenty strong enough for reasonable loads. The 2a was my choice because of going to the larger caliber and it giving me a littl more pressure range to play with.

Yes, there isn't too much difference as far as velocity is concerned by using the 303 case necked up to 338, 35 cal or even 375 cal, but energy increases at the square of the velocity so even 100 f/s added velocity means a fairly large jump in energy depending on the weight of the bullet. 100 f/s more velocity from 2400 to 2500 will give about 250 ftlb energy while you would have to go up 20 grains in bullet weight, 250 to 270 gr, to gain the same amount of energy.

Always trade offs and compromises, and anytime you move out of the "standard" into the wildcat realm, things get messy fast and the fat's in the fire as far as the dollar goes.

Luck on your projects.

The 458 WM reamer came today (Tues) and I cut the chamber...0.068" headspace, right on the money...sometimes I totally amaze myself.

I put the needed pieces and parts together and fired off a round loaded with a cast lead 350 gr slug and 60 gr H335, just to hear it go boom. This load equates to about 1700 fs and 25 KCUP and the case fell out of the chamber. Recoil was mild...nothing like the same weight bullet at 2600 fs out of my 416 Taylor or 45-70 NEF BC!!!!

The single round fed from the mag great.

As the rig sits it will fire 45-70 and 45-90's by turning down the rims to fit through the inner ring hole. about 0.560" or opening up the hole to 0.615" or so...either way is OK, and, of course, the cut down 416 Rem cases I'm using. The 416 Rem belts measured 0.205" long as did the Rem 458 WM cases and that is the dimension I cut the chamber to...WW measured 0.213" so the bolt shouldn't close unless forced, but I haven't gotten around to checking that yet.

The OEM 12 rnd 308 mag feeds OK with a bit of futzing around with the lip geometry and a bit of filing and grinding on the front and rear endplates to clear the larger bullets and cases. I have a 303 mag to work out for the rimmed cases, although I will leave th inner ring hole as is and turn down a dozen each 45-70 and 45-90 case to try out. I think the way the 303 mag is tapered the smaller diameter (0.560") might work out better.

This seems to me to be a very straight forward, simple and easy conversion to the 2A and 308 Mag, but I'm not the sharpest pencil around, look at things fairly simplistic and if I can do it someone with a lot more experience should be able to turn these conversion out at a profit once all the little bits and pieces are known and worked out. Basically nothing more than a barrel and chamber job, and mag tweaking as long as you stay away from the rimmed cases or just single load them...and Yes I understand all the legal ramifications.

I'm calling my creation the 460 BMW (BOONDOGGLE MIGHTY WILDMAN) to keep references to the 458 WM at a minimum.

In any event I still have to cut down and crown the barrel, install a front sight and thread for a muzzle brake, do a bit of milling on the chamber end so the barrel wrench will fit, bed the forend and finish the stock, then paint the whole shebang some camo color, then work up the loads...so I'm not done yet.

Allen: This way might be something for you to look hard at.

Luck on your projects

There's an article in Handloader 170 where the author converts a SMLE to 45/90. He used a delrin insert that he cobbled up to turn a normal mag into a single stack. He also had the rims of the 45/90 cases turned down to 0.575.

Why not start with a Siamese Mauser if you want a bolt gun in 45/70 ? You see them come up every now and then as these conversions were popular in Oz when it was difficult getting permits for high powers in NT.

I have seen a No4 converted to .405Win., with a single stack magazine, worked ok no feed issues.

As I said before...somewhere...there are many more desirable actions to use and if I didn't already have a rack full of shooters of all cals to pick from I wouldn't have used the SMLE action anyway...but I had the 2a lying around, had read of the SMLE being used and wondered if I could come up with an easier conversion to 45 or 50 cal using the action. This project was one of my many "wonder if..." propositions and more a loaner/PU queen shooter.

The Siamese mauser was a good one but almost as hard to find as hens teeth, but also limited in the pressure end. Good M98 are still around and I would use a another VZ-24 if I had wanted, but the original intent was to use the SMLE action...just too see.

The problem with a conversion to 45 cal isn't the caliber...it is the use of a rimmed case, that is why I looked for something rimless. I would have really liked to use the 284 case if it were longer and there are many other good cases to pick from, but ecomony was also an issue...with reamers, dies and the rest including going to 50 or 51 cal. I definitely didn't want to end up with a money pit hanging around my neck and 50 cal reamers, dies, brass and bullets just ain't cheap.

Picking common, cheap components makes this proposition worth while. Even if it didn't work out I wouldn't be out more than the 50 bucks I paid for the reamer rental. The barrel could still be used by cutting off the threaded section and re-threaded and rechambered for my Ruger or Savage switch barrels or a stub barrel on my NEF, and the dies and brass re-used.

Besides a 45 cal, 525 to 600 gr bullet even at 1400 - 1600 f/s isn't anything to laugh at...at either end.

SJM...how/who/can you get a picture or construction method on that 405 W single stack mag by any chance? I looked at the 405 W case also along with the 444 M case early on and I might do a 405 W NEF someday. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
There's an article in Handloader 170 where the author converts a SMLE to 45/90. He used a delrin insert that he cobbled up to turn a normal mag into a single stack. He also had the rims of the 45/90 cases turned down to 0.575.

Why not start with a Siamese Mauser if you want a bolt gun in 45/70 ? You see them come up every now and then as these conversions were popular in Oz when it was difficult getting permits for high powers in NT.

JFE,
Have you got that article and if so can you scan or photocopy it for me?

There's been a very very pretty Siemese Mauser converted to 35Greevy Express by a guy up in the NT just recently. Brilliant looking rifle!

Still wondering what to do with my P14 ... 25cal is just too small!

FOOBAR,
Amend the name to 458BWM (458 BOONDOGGLE WILDMANs MAGNUM) ... that way you can scratch a B into the headstamp of WinMag brass incase you ever need to take it to Africa!

Somehow I think your having too much fun with this toy!
Cheers...
Con

Con - No probs. PM your address and I'll send you a copy.

That's a cool idea Con...wonder if my 1/16" number set would work.

Your right about having all this fun...I bedded around the lug/action screw today then ran off to town to lay in the next months groceries.

Picked up a very nice Mosin Nagant while I was there. This was part of an estate sale the shopman acquired and it had been in the collection for at least 10 years...supposedly...

It looked brand new just out of the box...no dings on the wood, bluing perfect, hardly any rub marks on the raceways, and the barrel looked like it had just been clean and includes one of those tri-angular bayonets.

I know Chuck...he doesn't clean the rifles he picks up, just puts them on the rack with a good price and sells them.

I think I will just fire a few rounds to check the sights, clean it again and hang it on the wall. This shooter is just to purty to ding up...I have too many of those junkyard beauties stuffed in corners, hidyholes and such, just in case I need to grab on to something shootable quick.

If you could post pictures of the pieces and parts of that mag in the Handloader article on this thread I would also like to see how it was done. I looked at my copies of Handloader but 170 wasn't amoung them. Thanks

'Njoy

My Smelly project is moving right along. Not much interest in it tho'. I ordered a copy of Handloader 170 and it came today.

The way the author handled the magazine looks like a good way to get things to work single stack. Delrin is slick and works in many applications. Barring a completely new magazine I don't see any problems with the way he did it.

Aluminum plates might also work...I didn't think of doing it that way, but I will get started on the 10 rnd 303 mag as soon as I can order some Delring strips.

Handloader also had a nice article on RL15 powder for use in the 458 WM which fits nicely into my project.

I finished off the metal work today, drilled/tapped and installed the front sight, threaded the barrel and installed the muzzle brake and cut the extractor slot and fiddled and filed to get the final fitting.

All three cases...45-70, 45-90 and 458 WM worked.

I finished bedding the fore Monday and it's ready to paint so tomorrow will be a paint day for all the parts and probably get to shooting it by the weekend.

Picked up a beautiful 7.65 Argentine Mauser carbine yesterday. Looked almost brand new...better than brand new, no rust anywhere. I don't know too much about the Argentines, this one had a bent bolt, the numbers are matching on all the different pieces but the stock looks more like a modern sporter than a military. Doesn't matter to me though...it had the slickest stroking bolt I have worked in a long time on ANY rifle and the cartridge is equal to a 308. I'm not interested in closet queens anyway...if it don't shoot, it don't last around my neck of the woods.

I'll post some pics and targets as soon as I get the project finished that far.

Have a talk to Dan at Wangaratta Camping World 0357 21 2061,he has a beauty built on a no.4 and he should be able to steer you in the right direction.I have 1 on a mauser action

Thanks...but that would be a bit of a problem...I live on the other side of the world. If you could get Dan to talk on this forum and could show some pics, it would always be appreciated.

Using the belted mag cases solved the magazine problems but I would like to get a usable mag for use with the rimmed cases. It would be nice to have several mags loaded up with different loads for different applications as long as I didn't get the one for T-Rex mixed up with the one for Willy Coyote or a dusted chipmonk.

I had to measure on a few weeks ago and the rim diameter of the 45-70 cases was larger than the bolt of the SMLE so you would have to specially prepare cases for it instead of buying of the shelf ammo, could be a pain in backside.

That's certainly true, Al. That problem was corrected in the Gibbs and other rifles by just boring out the inner ring so the rim would fit through. I simply chuck the cases into a Wilson case holder, set my cross feed to cut the rim down to 0.575". I can turn out cases almost as fast as talking about it.

This is a relatively low pressure round, 25-50 cases or so will last a life time of "normal" shooting. It's a POS for those that don't dabble, but for me it is just another pleasant task to be done. I get to "play" some more and in the process learn a great deal of other facts and fancies.

Again, the main problem with using rimmed cases is "the rim" and using the belted mag case eliminates that problem. I wanted to come up with a "new" soluting to the problem while still being able to use the "old" cases, and maybe a better solution to the rimmed case feeding problem.

There is little interest in using the SMLE action...almost ANY mauser or clone action is better...I have switch barrel Ruger and Savage actions I could have used and it would have been MUCH simpler as they are already set up for the 0.532" case head and would have been a simple barrel chamber job...BUT I like to play.


Again, the feeding problem is solved as long as I use a 308 magazine and belted mag cases. I'm just trying to get the rimmed cases to feed right and I have two different ways of attempting to do that...I just haven't gotten to that phase yet. I will order some Delrin today and get the painting done before starting work on the 303 mag conversion. Maybe make some alum strips to test while the paint is drying .

JFE,
Article received ... brilliant ... world economies are crashing and I want a 45/90 No4!!
Cheers...
Con