Over on the African forum there is one of the bi-monthly tipping discussions. "How much do I have to tip the - XXXXX to not look like a cheapskate or to look like a big man?

(XXXX insert - outfitter, PH, tracker, game scout, cook, waiter, assistant cook, assistant waiter, skinner, assistant skinner, driver, assistant driver, assistant PH, cleaner, assistant cleaner, gardener, assistant gardener, cow herd, assistant cow herd, poacher, assistant poacher ..... etc. And don't forget everyone from when you leave home to when you get back!)

OK that was a bit sarcastic but ......

I understand a tip of some sort is usually expected or a gift. But to me as an Australian, tipping is completely alien and really quite demeaning for both the giver and receiver. Thankfully one thing our industrial relations system did was eliminate this practice in the 1920's by ensuring decent and adequate wages were legally enforcable in the hospitality industries.

So anyone who has hunted overseas where a "tip" is the established practice please comment. What did you do, give, and also for what sort of hunt?

So a general guide can be established on what is recommended for Australians and Kiwis hunting abroad in Africa, Asia etc. Thanks.

Tipping is an embarrasing scenario if you come from a non-tipping culture like Nz or Australia - although one good tip is "dont back the racehorses" and another is "dont pick your nose in public ".

Personally tipping makes me feel uncomfortable and always seems to be a form of compulsory begging , if you know what I mean .

I would like to know what is appropriate in a tipping situation as well, we just dont know how this is meant to work .

Muzza

As for international comparisons. An Egyptian tout in a street in Cairo told me the international pecking order of tourists for tips:

Americans tip the most;
Swiss and Germans and the like next;
French, Spanish and Italians in there somewhere;
British;
Others;
at the bottom, Australians;
and the winners, New Zealanders, the world's worst .

Good on the Aussies and Kiwis.

Not really done here, eh. However in fitting in with other's cultures it is good to have some idea of how its done and what sort of amount is expected.

I am interested particularly what hunters have given as tips when on safaris in Africa, hunting in Alaska etc.

Well I guess I should live down there with you guys. I am from the U.S. and tipping makes me uncomfortable also. I was taught coming up that tipping was a reward for going above and beyond your expected. I find it extremly akward and uncomfortable to be put into that situation.

I will be in New Zealand this month for the first time and any help with this subject will be very helpful and greatly appreciated.

And YES the tipping suggestions are getting out of hand on the other forum.

Tipping might be the norm in the US, but I don't like it. I will wait for someone to earn the tip - more like a bonus/reward for excellent service. I hate the fact that most service industries pay little and then the customers are simply expected to make up the difference in tips. I REALLY hate the places that automatically add the 15% "gratuity" for parties of 8 or more.

I guess it flat pisses me off to have to supplement someone else's income because their employer does not pay a living wage. If someone goes that extra mile to make sure I'm happy, I have no problem with sending some cash their way, but being expected to tip for any kind of average (or even poor) service is beyond me.

I've not been to Africa yet, but I have tipped a guide here in the US. We each threw in an extra $20 after a nice 3-day hunt. He was a great guy and real accomodating, so it will be nice to have the same treatment when we go back again.

As a very regular traveller, to all parts of the world, it's unfortunate to see the 'tipping' is a disease that is spreading. I have no problem with a tip for someone who goes way beyond what is necessary, but unfortunately it's now expected for service that borders on the non existent. Especially in the USA....

And in restaurants that automatically add the 15%, I always send the bill back and have it done again.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies.

BwanaBob,

It would be great to hear from you and what you think is the usual or proper thing to do.

Should I ever get the chance to hunt in Africa, I wouldn't be able to afford to tip. The trip its self, is to me a fortune. And I get the hackles up when its expected.

I too hate the concept of tipping, especially in more developed countries where I think it should only be for exceptional service.

In Africa, I have less problems with tipping as the standard of living of these people is so much less. However, no one should ever tip excessively (no matter how well heeled you are) because it sets up dangerous precedents. When tipping the trackers, skinners, etc, I usually rely on my PH's suggestions and I know that many PHs do not want their staff tipped excessively because they then begin to expect it and put it less effort to earn it. My hunting partners and I have often taken t-shirts and hats with Aussie logos on them (typical souvenir stuff) and handed them out at the start of the hunt and then provided the minimum acceptable tip at the end (unless there is good reason to give more) - and this seems to work well.

quote:

"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

Fantastic quote in your signature line. Quite fits the topic too. Can I borrow it for the African thread.

Would you mond PMing me with what "the minimum acceptable tip" has been in your experience.

I posted something on the African forum and have edited here. If you read it there skip to the next post. Long winded but a tip to me is never automatic on a percentage of fees and the hunt is part of how it is calculated.

This is my experience in tipping on safari.

***

1994 - 7 day Zim safari plains game.
Head tracker who worked very hard - Z$80 then about US$8
Other trackers (3 others) - Z$50 each - US$5
Cook and skinner - Z$50
Waiter - Z$10 - he was a complete dill but enthusiastic. This was an enthusiasm "tip" but not a service tip.
PH - nil - I did not even realise it was customary to "tip" a "professional" hunter.

The staff gifts were all based on what the PH recommended. Everyone worked hard. Everyone was happy except for the waiter and the PH. Later I found out why as I was told US$100 was customary by a money grubbing out of work PH which I thought was very excessive and over the top. But I regretted not giving him something as he did work hard.


***

Second safari to South Africa in 2002. I hunted with a friend and while he may have put some margins on the hunt basically it was meant to be at cost. I asked him how much he would have earned in this normal job for the time and then added at least 50% and that was his gift. He was very happy.

The tracker I gave maybe $20 too. Maybe less, as I aimed for the low side with him. While he was a good enough tracker he never did anything extra and often carried next to nothing when working back to the bakkie after a hunt or always had the lightist thing eg the shooting sticks. He wouldn't even carry water without being asked to do so every hunt.

The camp manager was a nice guy whom we gave a hard time (with jokes) because he said silly things (something about school girls which we twisted the wrong way ). I gave him a $50 in compensation for our entertainment and for a holiday back home after my safari. He was also the cook and very very good at it.

The waiters were funny, hard working and good guys, probably R100 each (about $15).

Everyone (surprise !) was very happy with these tips.


***

In 2002 in Zimbabwe (two different safaris):

Safari 1
The safari was interrupted by warvets. I did not tip anyone while there and as I had to buy a new safari (less refunds) I had no discretionary cash left. I later sent US$200 for the owner to handout as I felt sorry for these guys whom might be out of work from that day.

It was funny enough, in the middle of the mess I went to the hunting vehicle to retrieve something out of its glove box and met one of the staff (waiter?) who was a nice guy. I went to shake his hand and say thank you and good-bye. He was expecting cash to be in my hand! You have to be joking, there were ffffing apes running around with drugged out eyes and police protecting the monkeys with automatic rifles. BTW when retrieving my rifle from the bakkie I very gingerly took it making sure it was open and held non threatening. I was very closely watched by the police armed with FN-FALs. The same warvets tried to "confiscate" all the outfitters firearms for "safekeeping" so maybe I am lucky to have mine.

The second safari I paid probably around $20 to $30 to the tracker and gov't game scout each. Left another $50 in total for everyone else for the camp manager to hand out. I'm sure most of it got pocketed by him.

As for letting some manager "hand out" the tips for you. My experience is NEVER. I learned that lesson in Kenya on a game tour. We got together and worked out a tip for the staff. Put it all together, say $50 in total. It was given to the headman. I watched him and the bastard peeled off a $5 (equiv) and handed it to his assistant and kept $45 for himself. The poor guy looked really sad so I got together with some others and gave the poor sod a few dollars more. In third world countries the boss gets 95% of everything and the workers the crumbs. (Hell I'm becoming John-the-Greek ).

I didn't tip the PH as he was the owner and in reality part of the safari was a bit of a disaster even though it wasn't within his control. I would have handed him a considerable sum of money if he needed it to live on the other hand. I offered to help out if he needed to shift countries. But he said he was setup OK and he was. His wife did get an expensive bottle of perfume though which I brought over with me - about $100.


***

Australian and New Zealand guided hunts (2).

No tips. I try to take some nice cigars and if possible wine (weight allowing) and share them during the hunt.

The PH and outfitter get a good tip in lots of positive PR.

I think I've covered this subject on another forum at some time. Anyway here is my experience:

No rules.
General unwritten rule is 10% of hunt price.
Usually you tip your guide rather than your Outfitter, great if he/she is both.
Guides generally work damn hard for bugger all.
In NZ the pay rate is about NZD$200 a day.
Guiding is only paid on the days you work.
Lets say maximum 100 days for a season. Doesn't take a lot of math to work out that, it isn't much of a winner.
So if you want good guides to stay in the industry, tip them.
However, the guide should earn his tips:

Work hard for you.
Communicate well.
Ensure your comfort and safety.
Understand your expectations.
Find the animals.
Give accurate advice and information.
Display proffessionalism and enthusiasm.
Commitment to the hunter, the hunt and result, from start to finish.

In the past year I've had a range of tips. Some small, some big (Very big e.g. USD$5,000 on a $6,000 hunt.) and sometimes a bit of useful equipment.
I also appreciate that some hunters are running a very tight budget, and genuinely can't afford the tip, I have no problem with that.

Personally I have no problem paying a tip, for services, so long as they meet/exceed expectation. However I am not interested in trying to impress/ proove I'm the big spender by the size of the tip.

An ongoing friendship and good genuine feedback rates higher than the money to me.

The post above ranking the nations is not far off, however Imust add, that not all europeons can be lumped together. Put Danes and Dutch somewhere down near the Kiwis and Aussies.

NB: I wouldn't thank you for a poxy hat with an aussie logo.

I confess - I didnt tip Tim , but dont worry mate , I think I have a spare fluffy teatowel with a map of aussie . Has to be better than a hat any day .....

As an American who has spent a lot of time living overseas I HATE TIPPING!

Service in Southern Europe SUCKS! I don't tip, unless service is good.

Service in the middle east is gererally good, I tip very well.

Service in Asia is excellent, I always tip!

Service in Canada and America is sometimes good sometimes shit. I only tip when I felt like it they did there job, because I know that's part of they're salary.

I never tip in fast food.

I often tip the hotel staff to get better service. I hand the gal a $20 when I arrive and say "I really need a great room", and of course a great room is provided.

Valet at the hotel where it is required? Never tip! Regardless of the fact that this little bastard ran 300 yards to the parking garage to get my car. It's his fucking job!

here in uk on the pheasant shoot i bush beat on, the guns/shooters, ive seen them tipp the gamekeeper upto £150-£200 each person but only when they have shot 400+ birds @ £25 per bird+vat, not my kind of shooting.