I'd like to hear from hunters that have taken both African Cape Buffalo and Aussie Water Buffalo. I've taken five Cape Buff, and am considering going after their cousins down under.
Current African Buff prices are pretty high. I can do a multi-Buffalo management hunt in Australia for much less money. But I am wondering, after hunting buffalo in Tanzania, Mozambique and Zim, is the Australian hunting really what I a looking for? (Cape Buff are the purest drug available!)
Input from those who have done both would be much appreciated. Thanks!

If you are considering doing a multi-buffalo management hunt, culling for short, ask yourself how dangerous and difficult to do the same thing with a herd of African buffalo.

I haven't shot African buffalo but have Aussie buffalo where we shot half a dozen or so on several occasions for loads of meat for our guide who happened to be a professional pet meat hunter. Using my 404 Jeffery I felt no danger despite some shots taken front on within a few feet in the scrub. I would be quite happy doing the same on African buffalo. Exciting? yes. Dangerous? if you can shoot a BG rifle straight no

I apologise in advance for commenting, as I've not hunted buffalo in Africa.

I live with buffalo all around my home and workplace, and have hunted over one-hundred (which isn't much compared to some).

I have hardly ever been in danger because I'm careful and know how to shoot. However, any surprise is always possible.

Most of the dangerous situations I've experienced came from wounded animals. Some buffalo will act in a threatening way with no known reason.

Buffalo need to be respected, but neither should their danger be exaggerated by hunters trying to prove something. I could get killed or injured the next time I take the rubbish out to the wheely bin at night and surprise one at close quarters, but 99% of encounters are stress-free.

Thanks for the replies, both make good sense. I think it is the POTENTIAL danger that makes 'dangerous game' hunting special. If you wound a Cape Buff and he makes it into the thick stuff, you MAY have a serious confrontation coming (all animals are individuals). This potential really focuses the mind on that first shot!

To me, 'culling' is population reduction, and not particularly choosy as to which animal(s) you shoot. 'Management' is a lot like a trophy hunt, but specifically looking for that old animal that is not a trophy (genetics, broken horns, etc.) Then getting as close as possible with my open-sighted Lott! That's what I'm after.

I've also wondered if Cape Buffalo might be constantly 'switched on' because they deal with lions. In my limited experience, their adrenaline really is on a hair trigger.

After hunting buffalo a number of times in Mozambique and Zimbabwe I was not sure of what to expect in Australia. I was pleasantly surprised the the hunting was very similar and exciting. I think the danger thing is over blown in Africa and understated in Australia. Just enjoy the experience. As others have said, I would prefer a trophy Australian buffalo hunt than any "cull" hunt.
Good luck,
Jim

I have shot 2 buffalo in Australia and one cape buffalo in Zimbabwe. All three were heart-lung shots and the buffalo ran a little ways and died. The cape buffalo ran the shortest distance. I made 2 trips to Australia, then hunted in Africa. It was a little bit of a let-down in Africa after all I had heard about cape buffalo. It seems to me the Asiatic buffalo are harder to kill but that may be because they are bigger.

Maybe it would be better to ask some PHs how many charges they have had to deal with. A few years ago I got an e-mail and some pictures from Graham Williams, the PH I hunted with in Australia. He had just killed a buffalo that finally dropped at 2 meters. That was his 9th charge in about 350 buffalo killed by clients, or roughly 1 out of 40 buffalo charged. It would be interesting to hear from African PHs how many charges they have had.

A water buffalo just killed a horse down here in south Texas on a game ranch while it was trying to get to the rider. It rammed it's horn all the way in the horses belly and would have killed the rider also if it's horn hadn't been hung up in the horse. And that's a tame one, raised on a game ranch.
I would consider them dangerous.

I have not hunted water buffalo, but have been hunting quite a few cape buffalo.

Every game animal can be dangerous, but, as long as you are careful with your shot, and the follow up afterwards, the likelihood of you getting in trouble becomes very small.

I have shot a few hundred dangerous game animals that include elephant, lion, leopard, buffalo and hippo.

Never had any close calls whatsoever.

The most important thing is you placing your first shot in the right place.

quote:

but neither should their danger be exaggerated by hunters trying to prove something

This sums it up somewhat, try apply the same length of rein to the African bull.
I did watch a doco on the Cape Buff being farmed in Africa somewhere and the farmer said "no matter what you cannot trust them,even the cows for one moment"

Check them out here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OneyeUxzL40

Shucks, that danger thing can and does happen
with domestic cattle too. Never trust a critter regardless what species it is.

I even had a real close call from a wounded prairie dog once! I'd shot her ten pups, then her. I was collecting heads at the time and reached down to cut hers off when she lunged nearly two feet in the air at me after she'd been blown half in two. Jaws and teeth looked just like a house cat. Plumb damned spooky! I can fully understand her rage at me, very well deserved. I just got lucky when she lunged is all.

George

I think it is very hard to generalize a quantified level of danger involved in hunting any animal.

I have only ever hunted cape buff once but spent 12 years guiding hunters to Asiatic buffalo in Arnhemland, so have had considerable exposure to them.

I think the main difference between the two animals is their level of flight response. Cape buff have MUCH greater "pressure" on them from numbers of preditors as well as man. A lot of Aussie buff rarely see man and have no preditors, apart from Dingoes when they are young and the occasional salt-water croc.

When I first began guiding I was booking hunts with no restrictions to calibers used and had a raft of hunters using 300's and .338 sized rifles mostly loaded with deer bullets.
Back in those days charges were not uncommon, I had 6 determined full frontal charges in one season. When I instigated a minimum of .375 and began advising clients to load with quality projectiles those types of incidents reduced dramatically.

During my time in Arnhemland instances of unprovoked aggressive behavior was not common but it still did occur.
One time whilst going to my electric freezer, which was connected to a solar power supplies several hundred meters from my main camp, I surprised a young bull standing in between two "outstation" houses. We met at about 40yds and I initially thought he'd back down or run away. Instead he dropped his head and come straight on forcing me to rush for the steel bars surrounding the veranda on one of the houses and I cleared the top bar just in time to feel a horn go swishing through the air behind me. That particular bull treed the residents of the houses several times in a short space of time and disappeared before I could locate him and "pacify" him.
Over the years I also had camp staff "treed" unexpectedly during confrontations in or near camp. Again, not common but it does happen.

Several times during my tenure I was requested by the local community residents to deal with specific animals who were responsible for rolling vehicles and charging people.
Incidents were not common, but they did occur.

From my perspective, with ALL bovines, I think it foolhardy to underestimate any of them regardless of where you are and that goes with feral cattle (wild ox) as well.

The vast majority of hunting situations will be trouble free as it should be.

I've noticed more aggressive behaviour in south-western Arnhemland than in central Arnhemland. Still had a few tricky moments in central Arnhemland, though.

Thanks Paul. That is the type of information I was after.

I agree completely: in the vast majority of hunting situations, if you place the first shot well (back it up with more bullets if possible) and do a careful follow up, there shouldn't be an issue. "POTENTIALLY dangerous game" might be a better term, and that potential is what makes hunting these animals so much more exciting.

Surely, ANY wounded animal can be dangerous. But a 14 year old Cape Buffalo bull is used to FIGHTING LIONS and WINNING. A whitetail deer is not.

I did catch a dead serious charge from my first Cape Buff after shooting him 5 times with a .375. An inexperienced PH led me in too quickly on the follow up. Nobody got hurt. The next 4 buffalo, no problems at all. Same deal taking my lion, 2 Tuskless elephant cows, and a hippo on land. Have been in on other Buff that friends shot, no worries.

But I very much enjoy the thrill of hunting, tracking and stalking dangerous game. I was worried that the Aussie Buffalo might be too far removed from the buffalo hunting I have enjoyed. With the information you and others here at AR have provided, I will be talking with some Aussie outfitters at SCI and see what we can put together. Thanks again!

Saeed, thanks for the reply.

A FEW HUNDRED DANGEROUS GAME ANIMALS... That is incredible! Not too many hunters in this day & age will ever have that kind of experience. I will surely pay attention to your posts.

A buddy suggested that I join AR & I'm very glad I did, this is a great site with a lot of knowledgeable people. Armed with all this information, I now just need more MONEY and TIME!!

Much appreciated BenKK; sounds like exactly the type of hunt I'm after. I had already read/heard how remote & wild areas in Arnhemland can be, which is another huge draw for me. I'm sure I'll have a great time.

Any time I can fire my Lott is at least "pretty damn good."

Baker458, i'm not sure if the hunt will live up to your expectations, a lot of that will depend on who you book with and the type of experience they expose you to but at very lest you will see some extremely unique wilderness (if you decide to book a hunt in Arnhemland) and is there ever a BAD excuse to be hunting buffalo ?

Have a great hunt

I should have added in my post that our professional pet meat shooter took over the guiding duties for myself and hunting partner after the PH guide had to pull out unexpectedly a couple of days before we arrived. I don't know how many buffalo we would of shot had we gone with the 'proper' guide, this was in the days before paying for an animal came into vogue, we just paid a daily fee and as it turned out shot to our hearts content more or less.

I will say though that our pet meat shooter only shot from his vehicle using a 338 WM and would not venture into the scrub after animals that got away, saying it was too dangerous to do so. He was a tough wiry bushman and seemed to have a healthy respect for the Aussie buffalo. My partner and I hared off on foot after bulls and followed any wounded animals into the scrub to dispatch them, while our guide stayed at the vehicle warning us to be careful. Admittedly we we were a bit green and gungho about it but both having shot many hundreds of animals back in our own country we could certainly shoot our way out of trouble had there been any.
My mate with his 7x57 pretty well had to stick to head and neck shots but to be honest my 404, using mostly solids, just dropped buffalo like rabbits with any frontal or shoulder shots. While the action was exciting, I had not been contaminated by stories of tiger tanks in Africa then so had no concerns for my safety.

The Aussie buffalo are huge animals, I couldn't believe how massive their hearts and lungs were and could see that a heart/lung shot even with a big calibre would not slow them down very quickly.

High frontal chest and shoulder shots were the ticket for these big creatures.

Apart from lacking the 'romance' of Africa, the hunting in Aussie's top end is superb and the people are great.

My experience is somewhat lacking compared to others, I have one Cape Buff hunt under my belt and one Cull Hunt down under.
At 40 yards my Cape Buff was one and done, with the numerous Water Buff encounters during my Cull Hunt we had one charge by a wounded cow.
The uniqueness of a Cull Hunt is not the number of dead animals on the ground at the end of the week, it is the number of shots taken at the end of the week. For me I was successfully taking shots at the end of the week that I would have never taken at the start of the week.
Take the trip if you can, New country, New animals, New sights and sounds New memories.

I got asked how come we have not had any serious trouble with buffalo, having hunted and shot so many, and how long do we wait - having a smoke while waiting?? - before going after them.

For starters, non of us smokes, so we do not wait at all before going after an animal after it has been shot.

I think it boils down to what I had mentioned earlier, that make sure of your first shot, and you won't have anything serious to put up with.

Here is an example, from our last year's hunt.

We followed a herd of buffalo for quite sometime, as they fed. It was quite a large herd, and trying to pick a suitable bull when one can see only a handful at a time is not very easy.

Eventually we got to within 100 yards of them, and saw a good bull feeding, with others, just ahead of us.

They were all facing away, and the bull we picked was not clear for a shot, and facing away.

Eventually he got clear, and I put a bullet in his rear end as he turned.

All took off into an extremely horrible thicket - one which no hunter would wish to follow a wounded buffalo in. Perfect for an ambush, as one cannot see further than a few feet, and totally dark!!

We followed their tracks - one cannot follow a single track where we were, so we went where we saw our bull ran.

We heard him, moving not far from us, and we started to look for him.

Eventually we saw him about 8 yards from us, but there was no way another shot could be taken.

We moved position, and got to within about 15 feet of hi, and managed to put another shot into him.

He was lying down, but was not in any position for a charge, as the first bullet had penetrated through across his body, destroying major organs such as his kidneys and liver.

I think the danger of hunting either is over-rated, and the fun of hunting both under rated.

Of course that depends on whom is selling the species and whom is hunting the species.

Everyone is subject to their own biases; whether from their experiences, pre-conceived notions, literary licence or maybe even just knowing which side their financial bread is buttered on. That's not likely to change any time soon.

Ive hunted Buffalo on three continents, and have my own biases too. If I was only going to do one Buffalo hunt in my life it would in Africa. Dreams die hard. Having done what I've done; if I could only have one more Buffalo hunt in my life it would be in Australia. It's not even close.

If you look in the archives you will see some heated debate about the Australian buffalo.

I do not wish to raise that controversy since a major participant is no longer with us.

The points I want to make are -

1. The Australian Water buffalo (Bubalus bubalis) is NOT a wild animal but a FERAL animal
2. The Wild Asiatic water buffalo is a completely different species - Bubalis Arnee and that is extremely dangerous
3. The Wild buffalo in Assam, India stand 6 ft 6 inches at the shoulder and weighs up to 3000 lbs. Most bulls are 6 ft and 2000 lbs. The similar appearance of the two species is very misleading. I have used the analogy of a feral goat and Markhor or Ibex in the past.
4. The Wild buffalo will attack and drive away a tiger single handed. They will also charge riding elephants in the parks.
5. Every year people are killed by wild buffalo in Assam
6. In some areas of Assam the wild bulls will breed with village buffalo cows. These hybrids are impossible to train and very aggressive. They are usually butchered for meat before they get too big and troublesome.

The bottom line Naki as you know is that statistically the Cape Buffalo as reported kills around several hundred people a year in Africa as opposed to the "how many question" in Australia.
More farmers are killed by domestic bulls/cattle in Australia every year than Asiatic Water buffalo.
Notably its the people in the money side of things that often 'talk them up'
A few months ago one of our US members with plenty of AR credit gave the AWB a real thumbs down in a comparo.

I perceive that if Australian feral water buffalo were battling hungry lion or tiger on a frequent basis that they'd be far more hostile to human intrusion within their proximity than they currently are...

Naki:

Having raised cattle much of my life.
I've seen that it don't take much of a cow, even less of a bull to weigh the often quoted
2000#.

Shucks, we butcher a two year old steer when it gets around 1200#. You get a big older bull and they'll go 2500# fairly easy.
Dad had a Charlais that dressed out at 1800#.
I'm 6'1" and he was taller than me. Face big as a moose too. He wasn't very fat, body quite tall and narrow.

I'd like to kill and see one of those bigger au buff's body on a scale. I'd bet a good many are over 3000# live wt. They look a full 5' or more tall and nearly that wide thru the body, well maybe only 4' but, they're huge. No doubt tough as hell.

Dogleg, Stradling: you guys have been around them quite a bit. Did you see one on the scales?

George

Despite all the comparisons most hunters going to Africa or Australia shoot their buffalo, it falls over and dies and that's about it. The issue of how dangerous it may be doesn't enter the equation as the buffalo of either species doesn't get a chance to show how mean it may or may not be.

The perception of danger is all in the head of the large majority of hunters who shoot buffalo, for those that worry about it!

How many buffalo in Africa or Aussie are hunted and shot every year and how many hunters and PH's are hurt or killed every year by buffalo? Give us the percentages then we can judge the danger in relation to other sports.

A hunting guide mate of mine rates the old scrub bull as far more dangerous then a buff.

It is always fun to beak off about this topic. Personally I would not get the least bit complacent about any of the big bovines and that includes Bossy the Dairy Bull.

Sadly we all know of the highly experienced PH's that have gotten killed by cape buffalo. Yet I know a man who was shooting 16 a week for a butchery in Rhodesia and some weeks he had a double order. The big herds would come out of Wankie and he would run parallel to them and shoot them with a 30-06. If one caused him any grief he would take his 458 to finish it. Of the 2,000 buffalo that he killed over a few years or whatever ... I believe that he experienced only four charges. He would never say that the buffalo were not dangerous but feels that they are over rated.

I tried to get a fellow to come hunt water buffalo with me in South America once. He declined saying that he didn't want to shoot an animal pulling a plough. You must trust me on this but a wounded enraged ancient water buffalo charging from ten yards - it took a life time of shooting/hunting with a great deal of luck to save our lives.

A chap that I used to know was a market hunter in Oz and once wrote me of a water buffalo that charged him from quite a distance and if I remember correctly he emptied his ten shot SMLE clip into it before it went down. Come to think of it ... just before we started to correspond he shot about eight camels. He was putting a chain on one to move it when it suddenly lashed out with its hoofs and nailed him in the chest breaking a bunch of ribs. He was many miles away from any kind of help and had a tough time driving out. He was not impressed with his mistake on the 'dead' camel. That could easily have been fatal. A bloody camel, no less.

One thing that is cool with the water buffalo I saw in Northern Australia was the big bulls stretching out their heads and walking towards you. If I had a fishing rod instead of a heavy rifle I might have been a bit more concerned. Awesome animals and I would never trust them with my life ...

Walking up to a savannah buffalo that I had shot three times and was lying on its side - the tracker told me to shoot it again. There was no guide. I was 100 % sure that the buff was kaput but was more than happy to shoot it one more time.

Hunt them all, have fun ....

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

quote:

but neither should their danger be exaggerated by hunters trying to prove something

This sums it up somewhat, try apply the same length of rein to the African bull.
I did watch a doco on the Cape Buff being farmed in Africa somewhere and the farmer said "no matter what you cannot trust them,even the cows for one moment"

I don't see any testicles. As any farmer knows the disposition of a bull and a steer are totally different. I had a brahma, a breed known for hostility, but this was a steer. I used to ride it around like a horse. It would neck rein, bow, kneel, lay down on command. Try that with a brahma bull.

Hi,

Between 3 hunting buddies we have bow hunted +80 Aus Buff in Arnhemland over a number of years. I was born and bred in Africa (Namibia and South Africa) and lived there for 38 years before immigrating to Australia ... Fun-fact for those contemplating hunting NT ... the Northern Territory of Australia is larger than South Africa or Namibia ... with a population of only approx. 250K = truly unspoiled and untamed wilderness ...

Yes, these animals are wild and like any wild animal if the conditions are right they do charge and will hurt you.

Below a recent article of a buff that got annoyed having 4 bullets in him ... http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...ational-park/8121646

Regards,
Eugene

Domesticated water buff have been that way for thousands of years so that picture doesn't do any service to the wild ones. Ranching cape buff for the production of desease free buff calves is not a good comparison as they are still wild animals no longer than they have been fenced in for the purpose. Give them many generations to do that properly.

Great Ibex, Markhor and Caracal hunting available now too.

Not dangerous though!

Sheesh ! After looking at those photos I want to go hunting water buffalo again.

As I said on your other post nice bulls all, but that frist bull is awesome !

I've hunted commercial & guided on Water Buffalo since I was 17 on & off, had charges been lucky to stop or dodge them all , worked on Banteng a lot less & charged many more times, getting tossed once !

Scrub Bulls & Red bulls in the old days also very toey, these can charge on sight but are easier to stop than a Water Buff by a large margin !

Been hunting & now working on Cape Buff seem a little more likely to charge than Water Buff when wounded, so far less than Bangteng, saying that we don't give them any margin !

Did get painfully smashed on my own farm by a Angus heifer when marking her calf, cracked my sternum , dragged me along the ground tossed me over a bank, probably could have killed me !
I was only armed with ear marker & ring applicator how ever !

Having a sausage sizzle at the Council Office yesterday when the dogs spied a buffalo bull and pestered it. It got mad-mad and charged toward us, but swerved at the last (there were about thirty of us on a low veranda with a big ramp). Was exciting enough to stop proceedings for a minute or so. He ran away behind the Clinic.

quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
Sheesh ! After looking at those photos I want to go hunting water buffalo again.

Come on down Scruffy, but be aware, I'm not in Darwin anymore to help you out when your stuff goes missing

Once hunted a banteng that was wounded with a .300WM. We tracked him into bush with only about 10 feet of visibility but eventually lost his blood trail. I wasn't carrying my rifle. It was back at camp as I had taken a bull n the first day of our hunt. As we walked back to the vehicle the hunter went to unload the Browning BPR .300WM and found that the chamber had been empty the whole time. The reloaded rounds were too long for the magazine and the cartridge that he thought was in the chamber had hung up in the magazine. Could have been very nasty if we'd managed to find the wounded bull.