quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
... but the question of ethics vs legal crops up across the world.
...
If it's legal, than mind your own busness.

quote:

Originally posted by Smudge:
I just posted on another thread regarding hunting in New Zealand. Im becoming a bit tired of overseas people questioning our ethics, hunting styles etc.

...

There seems to be a believe that all private land in NZ is 20 acres with a 6 foot fence around it and specifically set up for hunting. Deer are farmed here for venison and velvet on such smaller areas on land, and some farmers allow, or make some extra money from, allowing hunts on their land, but this is certainly not the norm.

The hunting here varies from shooting a farmed deer (not a common practice in NZ) getting avalanched in the southern alps hunting thar in mid winter, to sticking a bailed pig in thick bush.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
The guy that said "you can always tell an aussie - you just cant tell them much " was obviously a smart guy in his own right .

According to you then Gryphon , I am the same as you lot - I want to impose my views on everyone else?

Unfortunately , had you read what I said , you would have seen that the exact opposite is the case . People are free to make their own choices, and that is the whole point of my argument here .

quote:

Originally posted by Tentman:
Hello Folks

Smudge, your situation pretty much describes me too, mostly I'm happy to call myself an "armed tramper", mostly people will think thats disparaging but I bet I've seen more of the NZ backcountry (Sth Is anyway) than most, and know a lot of unusual places very intimately.

I think that ANYONE who guides for a living in NZ and operates within the law is OK. I have had a Dave McClunie party helo up past me, and camp in the basin I was heading for. Now Dave would be one of the most ethical hunters I 've read of (unfortunetley I've not had the pleasure of talking wih him). I'm buggered if I can see the difference between that and some other guide earing a legal crust who flys his client even further up IF thats what the client wants. It's (their choice of how far to fly) none of my business, and folk like our Australian whingers above can either walk or fly, but until they have hunted at least a couple of times, they should stop slagging of those who do (however they do it).

For the record I have spoken with and done a couple of deals with Muzza, and find him to be both a man of knowledge and a gentleman. I respect his views and have discussed them with 4 NZ hunters I know well. None of them have a problem with the transcripts of his views that I have shown them. In the absence of factual evidence to the contrary I must agree with Tailgunner that some of the Ozzies who post here have an "underarm problem".

Cheers - Foster

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
Just to jump in, but the question of ethics vs legal crops up across the world. Look back at hunting through the centurys and you will find that just about every methiod/tool has been declared as "unethicle" by someone somewhere sometime.
It all started when OG declared UNC was unethicle when he tied a sharp rock to the end of a stick, and raised to it's current fever pitch when UNC's son UMF started throwing his stick at game.
Now days we argue over inline muzzlesloaders with scopes, using 4 wheelers and snowmobiles to get into the hunting area, long range hunting (my gandfather thought long range was anything over 100yd BTW), etc. Some people clame that if the animal is enclosed/unable to escape (regardless of pen size) that it is unethicle. Well in that case hunting on Isle Royal (in Lake Superier), on one of the Alutition Islands of Alaska etc should be banned, right?
What about banning 4WD vehicles from within 5 miles of where your going to hunt at? If I pop a deer on my side of a 4' fence (after watching him jump it), does that count as as a penned hunt? To some people it does.
You can't judge another mans ethics, no more than he can judge yours. What you, and he, can do is stay within the laws of the area your hunting in.
If it's legal, than mind your own busness.

quote:

Originally posted by Smudge:
I just posted on another thread regarding hunting in New Zealand. Im becoming a bit tired of overseas people questioning our ethics, hunting styles etc. If you havent been over to NZ and seen what its like for yourself, I dont think your opinion carries much weight.

There are no native animals in NZ. Deer, thar, chamois, pigs etc are all imported. These animals are all regarded as pests by the government and the Department of Conservation tolerates them if hunters keep the numbers down to what they regard as a reasonable density (especially thar and deer). DOC will cull (for thar, with shotguns from a helicopter) if they regard the numbers as too high.

Some hunters will take out whole families of thar to keep the density down and protect this arrangement, and the NZ deer stalkers association supports this. The range of thar is also restricted with the use of judas animals (with a tracking device attached) and yearly culls.

There are huge areas of public land that can be freely hunted in NZ, any time of the year and without a hunting tag or any other sort of restriction. A lot of this public land is bordered by big sheep stations (ranches to some), which in most cases (in the south island of NZ at least) are unfenced where they adjoin the public land. In NZ you can be the only hunter in a very very big area.

There seems to be a believe that all private land in NZ is 20 acres with a 6 foot fence around it and specifically set up for hunting. Deer are farmed here for venison and velvet on such smaller areas on land, and some farmers allow, or make some extra money from, allowing hunts on their land, but this is certainly not the norm.

The hunting here varies from shooting a farmed deer (not a common practice in NZ) getting avalanched in the southern alps hunting thar in mid winter, to sticking a bailed pig in thick bush.

Trying to stick a big boar with a pig dog attached to its knackers five hours walk in dense bush from civilization is quite an experience.

There also seems to be a believe that animals are commonly shot from helicopters. In the past commercial shooters shot from helicopters for the venison market. However the price for venison dropped off, and this business is slowly dying. Helicopters are now mostly used for access to remote (inluding hunting) areas, although some guides use them to find animals and place clients on the ground near them.

New Zealand has a long history of mountaineering and other outdoor pursuits. I took up hunting as I was tired of the long walks in to mountaining huts with a 25kg pack full of climbing gear, but still wanted an excuse to be in the outdoors.

Im fairly experienced in NZ conditions, so I commonly hunt in quite remote areas by myself. However the conditions here can be hard on the unprepared/unexperienced (there have been well over 100 climbers killed in the Mt Cook area, and trampers/hikers are commonly killed, go missing or require rescuing in other areas).

The weather is unpredictable and very changeable, some bush areas would be called jungle in a lot of countries and it is easy to get lost. If you are not experienced in the sort of conditions we have here you can very quickly end up a statistic.

If you want to come and hunt in NZ, you will be welcomed and most hunters will happily talk about hunting areas, gear etc. Hunt free range, hire a guide if you feel the need (either free range or restricted access), hunt/shoot on a farm. But judging us will go down like a steaming pile of deer sign, so please bring an open open mind with you.

quote:

Originally posted by Smudge:
No offence to anyone (well no offence intended), but when are these threads on hunting ethics in NZ going to die. They are going around in circles.

I noticed that Don Slater has revived a thread that started about some poor hunter dying in the mountains, which turned into an ethical debate about helicopter hunting (or shooting?).

Every time I have a look at this forum the latest posts are about ethics.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:
I thought only Americans did that?