I've been out possum shooting in a pine forest. This is done at night and on this occasion it was a windy and I saw a possum but could not find it in my scope. I saw it again but again nothing in my scope. I eventually found what it was - a bunch of brown pine needles swaying in the wind! It looked for all the world like a possum scrambling on a swaying bunch of green pine needles. I've seen 'rabbits' in the daylight in the bush that I could not find in the scope. See why I'm kinda hesitant in condemning this guy? I'm saying, what rules did he break (or not apply to himself)? What do I have to do and what rules do I have to instil in myself to prevent me from making a fatal mistake? Spot lighting? Well, yes but I shoot rabbits and possum at night. OK, our owls have red eyes similar to a possum - not the same but similar. But possum are found in trees. Rabbit on the other hand are found where people could be. We have a standard joke about straw rabbits - grass tufts that we identify as such through a scope but look convincingly like a rabbit to the naked eye. What about those of us who shoot rabbits with open sights at night?

But failing to identify the target zone i.e. the spot on the deer that will bring it down raises some questions! That's like shooting at a sound in the bush. But can it happen to me? I don't know until I can understand what actually happened to this guy. Obviously I am taking this incident as a warning and will most certainly exercise extreme caution.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Irrespective of what colour range animals may or may not see better, if we want to wear clothing to prevent other hunters shooting us, then the colour should be one that humans best distinguish in the bush and that has been proven in testing to be blue.

This is food for thought, indeed. I remember an acquaintance who came duckshooting in an electric-blue polyester suit. Having read that ducks saw in glorious Technicolor, if not psychedelic intensity, I thought this bloke was nuts - but maybe he just didn't trust us.

That electric blue would reflect late into the twilight, but what about ordinary blue, like the blue-and-black-check woollen shirts we used to see? Were they visible longer than the red-and-black version that turned grey-black as soon as the light dropped a bit?

Maybe we should encourage the production of shirts with large blaze-orange-and-blue checks. Humans should be warned by check patterns quicker than real-tree and camo patterns, while deer may not care as much as modern hunters think.

We'd all look like Zig and Zag - but better that than dead or guilt-ridden.

But if we use camo that neither humans or deer can distinguish then we might be safer and more successful in the bush. Particularly when we hear of hunters shooting at things to see what it is!

quote:

electric-blue polyester suit.

You hunt with some cool cats man

303

Talking about red eyes.

Twice in one night I was out with a farmer getting rid of his foxes and twice he told me to shoot at what looked like foxes (but weren't) and so I didn't fire.


The first was a lamb by itself, hiding in between the plough sheers. It looked like a fox hiding but I just wasn't 100% sure so we drove up and the lamb came out from under the plough.

The second one looked even more like a fox - two very alert ears, right coloured eyes hiding.

And looking through the scope it did look like fox - what I could see of it.

We were in the paddock looking back towards the gate and dirt track but because I knew that their was dip the other side of the road, I had this nagging feeling it was a sheep lying down.
The farmer actually got quite annoyed with me for not shooting so we agreed he would drive up while I was ready with the gun.

To say he was glad I hesitated was an understatement.

I am not saying I'm perfect as they did both look like foxes but it can happen to anyone.

(I've raised my gun to many things like posted above - rabbits (tussocks), pigs (logs), foxes (sheep).

I got fooled a few nights ago spotlighting possums. I flicked the light around to see an eye in a tree fern. I raised the rifle, then thought, somethings not right. Walked up to see a game camera tied to the tree. worst part was I had put it there myself and forgot.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I got fooled a few nights ago spotlighting possums. I flicked the light around to see an eye in a tree fern. I raised the rifle, then thought, somethings not right. Walked up to see a game camera tied to the tree. worst part was I had put it there myself and forgot.

Now wouldn't you have been soooooper pissssed off if you had drilled it through the lens ha ha ha

We all need to be very clear about this – ANY hunter can make a mistake that can and frequently is fatal to another human.

How can this happen – well it’s our brain interpreting our senses incorrectly.

The easiest way of understanding how it can happen to ANY OF US is to consider why pilots need instruments for flying in cloud or at night. No matter how experienced the pilot, the sensory information being conveyed to their brain is open to misinterpretation. A pilot understands this and their training is to absolutely rely on the instruments – it took a lot of deaths to gain this understanding !!

As Shanks has pointed out, a Hunter MUST understand that the they are capable of making a mistake – no matter how experienced they may be – that’s because we don’t have an “instrument” to rely on, only our understanding of our own weakness.

If you are not convinced by the pilot example, exactly the same thing happens to sailors - both amateurs and professionals, they mis-time lights, they hit rocks clearly marked on charts (and chart plotters), because they trust their senses instead of their instruments.

This is the reason I actually feel in more danger (when hunting) when I see many of the comments in these sorts of discussions “it will never happen to me” – my first though is - oh yes it will, and you’d better understand how and why, or it may indeed be you pulling the trigger !!

You are dead right re sailors. Seen it myself
and knowing a few pilots, I have been told it from them as well (to some extent the Air France crash was a good example).


Re sailors / navigation etc and relating it to what I and others have said in "looking away, thinking of something completEly different"
when navigating at sea at night, set course, I used to do a quick check against the Southern Cross to make sure I was heading approx where I should have been.

Same as during the day, set course, then a rough cross check using watch and sun.

505G, it's 40 years since I've really done any spotlighting but IIRC sheep eyes were green in the light, while foxes' showed as red. Do modern lights change this?

That is what they are supposed to be like but
I have seen sheeps eyes that are yellow, green, bluish, you name it.

Have seen foxes that look like cats as well.

I never really did but now I definitely don't shoot at eyes only !


FYI, the farmer next to the one described above,
on the same weekend went for one drive around with him. Saw some eyes, he said "Oh, don't worry about those, that was a sheep I shot the other day by accident !!!! LOL).

Yep, he creamed one of his own sheep thinking it was a fox.

quote:

We all need to be very clear about this – ANY hunter can make a mistake that can and frequently is fatal to another human.

Thanks all. I was afraid I could make such a mistake too! So now I ask, how do I prevent myself from making such a mistake - any mistake? Your comments help to 'vindicate' the poor fellow, who is after-all, only human.

"So now I ask, how do I prevent myself from making such a mistake - any mistake ?"


Plenty of good methods listed by others above.

Another hunter killed today.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nationa...ccident-near-Rotorua

And people bag us Aussies?

That is tragic! Now I ask myself, surely the shooter must have asked himself where is buddy was before firing? His buddy may have been behind his target (in this case his buddy was the target which makes it even worse because he did not actually see what he was shooting at). I've past up on an easy and clear shot simply because the 'back-stop' could have concealed someone.

I have given up on going into the Blueíes as last time a poacher came right through the centre of my block untill I called him out and the time before that I was on one side of a small ridge and a friend was on the other. We were only about a 100 yds apart and there was a shot which made me think my mate had got something. He had been known to miss before so I stayed there for a while in case something came over the top but when I started to go back arround to help him dress-carry out etc he was comeing toward me to help me with my deer. Yep, there had been someone between us ( damned poachers) and so even a permit for a block where you are supposed to be only with your known hunting party can be a cause for danger. My friend and I had hunted together for years and both had the same attitude to hunting-shooting safety in the bush. I only hunt open country on private ground now for that very reason. You only have to come close once to know how easily something can go wrong.

Von Gruff I had that happen 3 times in the Bluies and also in another couple of places......I've never felt safe hunting public land ever since.
Almost enough to put you off hunting as I've never fancied the idea of being shot or shooting someone else.

Kiwi

Just saw this thread. I too have a hard time understanding how the sentences have been so light. If one is carrying a high powered rifle isn't there some responsibility to make sure of the target? Having said that, there was a case in Mass I believe where a family just moved out "into the country". The wife was in the back yard during hunting season wearing white gloves and was shot (and killed) by a hunter. She was mistaken for a whitetail deer, and the overwhelming opinion from hunters was that it was her own damn fault!
I put all this eagerness to shoot down to one item: people don't want to come back from a hunt empty handed. It seems to be ego, pure and simple.
In some places in the States eg. Pa and Ohio, I do NOT hunt on public lands.
Peter.

In order for me to avoid hunting there: where are the 'Bluies' and are there any other areas with a bad record?

The Blue Mountains are in between south and west Otago. Tapanui- Beaumont is either side of them

quote:

Originally posted by Kiwishooter2:
Von Gruff I had that happen 3 times in the Bluies and also in another couple of places......I've never felt safe hunting public land ever since.
Almost enough to put you off hunting as I've never fancied the idea of being shot or shooting someone else.

Kiwi

You think that you might accidently shoot someone else while stalking??

Here in Texas there is very little public land. The little there is gets hunted heavily and often times by those not so bright. Several years ago a guy that was a safety instructor stepped out of the brush in full camouflage to include face paint and had his head taken off by a hunter that thought he was a turkey. I have to fault them both in this case.
Several years ago I was in Alaska on the Hicks trail with my trail bike. When my friend and I arrived back to my car there was a man waiting on us and asked for a ride to Palmer,Ak. We gave him a ride and he was silent at first and then he told us he was a guide. He had a party of hunters and one of them had shot another off of a horse thinking he was a caribou. His ATV had broken down and he had just hiked 25 miles. I have a hard time figuring how a guy on a horse could look like a caribou.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
The Blue Mountains are in between south and west Otago. Tapanui- Beaumont is either side of them

Thanks for that, Von Gruff. I've driven the road from Milton to Alexandra, so may have seen them. The only forest I remember along there seemed to be coniferous plantation, maybe near the turn-off to Gore. Is that the kind of forest concerned?

On the road from Milton to Alex you pass over the Clutha river at Beaumont. If you go over the bridge and turn left down the river for a few mile then you have the access roads to most of the hunting block on this side of the hill, with probably 10-15 mile of hill frontage. For the rest you would go onto the Gore road at Raes Junction and in the Tapanui basin is the access to the rest of the hunting blocks. There are native as well as pine blocks although not all are open to hunting all the time. Permints are available by phone from the Southland D.O.C.

Thanks again, VG.
So that is a good, legal area for reds - but don't think it's a safe place to hunt?

I feel like I've lost a pound and found sixpence.

Another hunter shot last night,out spotlighting for deer.

This hunter was not killed,only wounded from the news reports so far.

Buck fever makes you do stupid things.

I don't get buck fever but I do get tunnel vision when concentrating on a target. I've followed a target in my scope until I got a clean shot only to find it was getting close to the horizon! Now add long grass to the horizon and that's a potential bullet flying over the hill. It's something I now pay a lot of attention to.

Another problem is shooting buddies moving in front of a scope shooter while he's shooting! Happened to me. I was shooting possum in a tree and when I'd nailed them all and lowered my gun my buddy was in front of me! What the hell was he doing? I knew I was shooting! Anyway, he wasn't in any real danger as I would have seen him in the scope but it's the principle of some being forward the shooter. This same guy moved forward of me while I was carrying the gun under a tree in which there were possum. He then stood up as I was aiming. It was in the dark so I did not see what he had done - anyway, I was aiming through my scope. Point is, the shooter must make sure of where his buddies are at all times. That includes taking into account their suicidal tendencies!

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
I don't get buck fever but I do get tunnel vision when concentrating on a target. I've followed a target in my scope until I got a clean shot only to find it was getting close to the horizon! Now add long grass to the horizon and that's a potential bullet flying over the hill. It's something I now pay a lot of attention to.

Another problem is shooting buddies moving in front of a scope shooter while he's shooting! Happened to me. I was shooting possum in a tree and when I'd nailed them all and lowered my gun my buddy was in front of me! What the hell was he doing? I knew I was shooting! Anyway, he wasn't in any real danger as I would have seen him in the scope but it's the principle of some being forward the shooter. This same guy moved forward of me while I was carrying the gun under a tree in which there were possum. He then stood up as I was aiming. It was in the dark so I did not see what he had done - anyway, I was aiming through my scope. Point is, the shooter must make sure of where his buddies are at all times. That includes taking into account their suicidal tendencies!

Sounds like you shoot with one eye shut??

Anyone shooting a target animal without identifying it adequately is an idiot. But we had a scary miss on my place. Four hunters hunting different sides of a hill on private land. One moved into another area without letting the other hunter know. He was in full camo with face mask and was sitting in good cover not moving. The hunter in that area shot a doe 25 yards from the guy in camo and never saw him until he moved and called out after the shot.

It only takes a second of inattention or bad judgement to ruin or lose a life.

I have three incidents I wish to relate for consideration here since this is all related to screwup's and hunting accidents.

Back in 1949 before hunter orange and before I was old enough to hunt. It was common for hunters to wear red and black checked jackets as those days that was considered a good safe outerwear, of course we all know better now, right? Dad was in a party of hunters on horseback riding out with some game on pack animals, everyone was also riding. The leader was on a buckskin horse which is nearly the same color as elk here in Colorado. All were wearing red/blk checked shirts or jackets and had such red 'flags' tied to the horses. It was a bit after shooting light one evening in a narrow high mtn valley. The trail is on the side of a pine tree covered hillside. The shooter was the only rancher in the valley. He told me yrs later that he had killed some over 300 elk at the time as he later related to me upon asking what happened.

He was using iron sights, shooting from near a creek masking any voice's he might have heard, or noise he made. This was a very good 'stand' he'd used many times to kill his elk and wasn't over 75yds from the trail. At the shot all hell broke loose of course. His shot was mighty lucky as it hit the horse in the lungs within a couple inche's of the riders lower legs. He made amends and paid the costs plus, and invited everyone in the party to hunt from his ranch house from then on. The rider gave up hunting forever. Dad was the only one to take him up on the invitation. No one else ever hunted that area again other than Dad.
I spent summers as a teen living with the rancher and working on the hay crew. The shooter and I spent many evenings discussing these things and many others of interest. He still felt bad about it 20+yrs later. Told me: "he'd thought about it many times and the only thing he could figure was: "when someone does something so many times sooner or later he's going to make a mistake and he'd made a really bad one". Plus: "I was shooting iron sights too late in the day, the buckskin horse was the right color, I didn't see or hear the hunters as they were still in the trees. It looked like a herd of elk coming down the trail as I've seen hundreds of times in that spot." (I myself killed a bull elk within 50' of where that horse was) He stressed to me to "Always make sure of your target, don't ever shoot unless you're positive and always shoot game in the lungs as that's the surest killing shot there is, it's bigger than any other part of the animal too. They always die quickly." We also shot 1 or 2 elk every year I was there. I feel his lectures and discussions helped tame a wild assed kid with a gun and turned me into a quite safe hunter as I've never had a wounded animal get away, only three times have I had to make a finish up shot on game because of his stressing "Double lung shots or don't shoot" That covers close to a hundred head of deer, elk and antelope.

The only near shooting accident I've ever had was in the summer before I started going up there. I was shooting birds with my .22 rifle in the heavy brush on a pasture Dad had rented. One shot and a man & woman both naked that had been tresspassing and laying on blankets doing their pleasurable thing jumped up screaming not 15 feet from my muzzle. I'd shot about 6-8' over them. Lucky that bird was up in the brush and not on the ground as some were. Spooky, yes?

The third one is going to take some imagination on every readers part. At first light of an overcast morning, visulize a coyote sitting facing you. Tall oval gray shape 200yds away with ears sticking up. Any problem with that picture?? Ok, try this now. Visualize a horse's head face on, just the face showing over the ground surface on this same overcast morning at first light. What resemblance do you see here?? Long oval shape with ears sticking up, right? Both about the same size and shape. About a foot wide and two & a half feet high just estimating. Is there any chance you might mistake that horse's head for a coyote?? A fellow I used to hunt with paid the rancher $900 for shooting his horse in the head with I think either a .223 or .17 Rem.
IF you have any trouble understanding how this could have happened take a piece of paper and make a drawing and compare shapes and ears. I do believe every one of us could have made either of these two shooting mistakes.

We've got to be damned careful guys.