THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM DOWN UNDER FORUM


Moderators: Bakes
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Wishlist Thar and Chamois Rifle
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
I am seeking the views of people who have spent a lot of time hunting in mountains and have tailored their rifle purchase/build to suit.

Having done some thar and chamois hunting a mate and I have been discussing the ultimate "best value" rifle for the purpose.

So what is it that you habitual mountain hunters use?

What factory rifles and scope combinations have passed the test of time on the hill ???

What cartridge is your favourite mountain rifle chambered for?

What are your good and bad experiences with rifles for this purpose?
 
Posts: 348 | Location: queensland, australia | Registered: 07 August 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
G'day TwoBob.

Back in the day when my ass was narrower and my legs were much stronger I did quite a number of trips to the West Coast, and some on the East side, for Tahr, mainly, sometimes Chamois as well.

Most of my trips were during the "peak" hunt period, May through July.
I did do some during the X-mas break as well.

Most of my trips were exposed to the weather that the West Coast is known for, even the few I did during x-mas !
Rain, sleet, snow, and winds, and during some trips all of that before lunch.
All of my trips involved gut-busting, lung churning climbing through wet monkey scrub, screed slopes and rock faces.

My personal preference is for synthetic stocks and stainless metal finishes purely from a practical perspective.

Timber stocked, blued metal work is going to take a beating in these conditions.
No problems over a hunt or two and certainly not an issue if you don't care if you rifle looks like crap in a year or two but if you do go this route take precautions against the stock swelling and the metalwork rusting.

Weight is also a high priority, I find all-up scope and loaded weight of somewhere between 7.5 & 8lbs being perfect for carrying and not too light to shoot steady after climbing, when the time comes.
Glass-wear needs to be the very best you can afford as does the firearm itself, at least in my opinion.

The terrain, the climate and physical exersion required on these hunts will see most of your equipment, as well as you yourself, tested to the absolute limits.

This is no place for scrimping, again my opinion.
Certainly not after the physical effort required to get within rifle distance in the first place.

One of the best outfits I used was a synthetic Weatherby chambered in 30/06 with a Khales 2.5-10.
Flat enough over my personal range limits, 300m, and light enough for carrying and shooting.

A 25/05 or .270 similarly outfitted would also be ideal.

Best of luck and stay safe in those hills !

Paul.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Australia | Registered: 30 June 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The 30.06 cartridge is my favourite. I know there's plenty of perfectly adequate alternatives but I just get a particular satisfaction shooting the 30.06 Anything I have hunted over the last few years has been comfortably taken. My longest shot ever was 385 yards. I enjoy reloading for my rifles and have taken game with 150 gn, 165 gn and 180 gn projectiles. Mostly Hornady Interbonds but more recently Barnes TTSX 165 and 180 gn due to Interbonds being hard to find. So far the Barnes also work very well. My go-to rifle is a synthetic stocked Blaser R93 with 24 inch barrel. It started with a Schmidt & Bender scope which, with the goal of weight trimming, I switched to a Swarovski Z5 3 - 18 x 42. More magnification for less weight although I seldom go above 12 X. Blasers supposedly have weatherproof coating on the metal parts but I have had rust appear if not dried / oiled after use in wet conditions. During the last couple of years I have been generally upgrading gear to get overall weight down for high country hunting. I've added another 30.06 to my collection. A Tikka T-3 in stainless / synthetic. 22 inch barrel, it shoots really well. Put a Swarovski Z3 3 - 10 x 42 on top and currently fine tuning handloads good for 300 - 350 yards. I already appreciate the weight advantage when handling this rifle. The only dislike is that the mag has to be removed to be recharged, it can't be done from the top. But, I can live with it. The Tikka barrel is so easy to clean I've saved a heap of time on this chore. Planning to get on the hill soon with this new toy and give it a taste of first blood. Hope I remember to be an equal opportunity rifle user / hunter and give the Blaser it's fair share of hunting !


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 2143 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
Its not about the rifle imo,its more about the personal fitness levels required to hunt the Tahr/Chamois country..on foot,not out of the chopper door of course.
However my own 35 year old syn 7mm RM and a borrowed wood model BRNO both served well but its syn all the way for me because you will fall and you will ding your rifle too.
Oh and you will get wringing wet too!



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of eagle27
posted Hide Post
For all my 20 odd years living and hunting in South Westland in the South Island NZ, I used a 26" barreled Schultz and Larsen in 7x61S&H firing a 160gr bullet at 3000fps MV. I topped it with a 6x Kahles scope with a fine crosshair.
It served me well and dropped everything I hit with it but weighing in at 10lbs I could not hump that sort of weight around in the Alps any more. I now use a very light Marlin XS in 7mm-08 and use either 140gr Gamekings or lately, 139gr SST. These spit out of the Marlin's 22" barrel at 2900fps exactly the same MV as the Hornady Superformance 139gr SST factory ammo does in the Marlin.

You will find that you will take chamois and tahr at all ranges, both my nephews have taken trophy bull tahr (14" and 14.5") one with a 270W at 100m and the other a 300 Win Mag at 320m.

The 7mm-08 or any other favourite deer rifle in 6.5 - 30cal will do the job and should be perfectly capable of reaching out at the longer ranges, if you yourself can steady yourself to shoot that far.

Today the synthetic stocks have it for the wet conditions, stainless still stains if you don't clean it so stainless or blued don't matter.

A good waterproof scope is essential, most rifles do not have iron sights today so can't afford to have a scope fail, take a spare if on an extended trip especially if choppering in and out. The most expensive will not guarantee to be the best, my Kahles leaked when up in the Alps on chamois and tahr, still usable but had to get dried out and resealed. No problems after that.

Most essential though are good binoculars as you will spend a lot of time glassing, again don't have to be the most expensive but need to be able to brighten the view, my relatively cheap Optolyth Alpins are excellent in this regard.

A lot of talk about optics having to be crystal clear around the edges therefore only the super expensive will suffice, don't know about others but I look through the centre of my binos and the cross hair in any scope I've used is in the middle, I don't have an interest in what's around the outer edge of my sight picture, optics don't yet come with internal wipers so I definitely do not want water inside any optics.

The stainless/synthetic Tikkas are very popular in NZ as are the Hornady SST or A-Max projectiles. Not usually worried about meat damage, just need the animal on the ground and keep in mind if you are presented with a long shot you want the projectile to open up at that range which SST's or A-Max will do. Who cares if you damage a heap of meat at close range, for tahr and chamois it is the trophy you will be after not every last scrap of meat.
 
Posts: 3952 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The most ardent mountain trophy hunter I know carries a 9.5 pound Sako 7mm rem mag, while another uses a .243.
I have a .257 Roberts on a Mauser which I consider my 'chamois rifle".
Tikka T3's are popular here, mostly due to the association with Sako, which have always been highly regarded in NZ.
Basically in NZ , any rifles used for deer hunting are the same rifles used for mountain chamois and tahr hunting, because its all the same mountain country.
Most people don't really tailor a rifle for mountain hunting as such...except for the recent craze for long range shooting.
In the past BSA featherweights were popular. I have a .270 BSA Majestic featherweight, which is ahead of its time. Designed from scratch as a lightweight, its only 6 lbs without a scope, has lightened action, 22 inch barrel, hollowed parts of the stock, and very slim. Built in 1957, just goes to show there is nothing new under the sun.
 
Posts: 304 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 18 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Kinda depends also on the level of "snob-value" you want to go for. I've carried my Mauser Kurz's 250-3000 and 6.5 (both wear Kahles s2 2.3-7 scopes) on a heap of east coast Tahr hunts and shot a bunch of Tahr with them. At 6.5lbs scoped as Carlsen Highway pointed out there's nothing new under the sun given that the "newer" one of these dates to 1931. Despite being hunted with "out in all weathers" since they were made both these Mausers still look great, sure one has the gark where I fell heavily on ice one winter, and one had its barrel shoved through icy snow for a self arrest once but all that does is add to their "patina". Does stainless steel and plastic get a patina, I don't think so, they just look scruffy. Substitute a 256 Mannlicher or 270 L61 Sako and its the same story.

I've also hefted a Ruger Precision rifle up to 2000 meters - it weights 13.8 lbs all up but with a good sling its really no burden.

Foster
 
Posts: 605 | Location: Southland, New Zealand | Registered: 11 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
Imo using the top end binos with a lets say 44-50 mm Ob lens that its great value being able to utilise the whole of the objective lens rather than looking down the tunnel of lesser equipped lenses.

Now in saying that,the worlds mountain hunters have been doing it way before scopes were even invented..every bit of game in the world has been taken with open sights.
I have used scopes in my other years that I wouldn't use for a tent peg these days....BUT! They still served the purpose of taking game.

We dont NEED a Mercedes to get from A to B but geezuz its terrific to have them.

Tenty you are using the 'snob value' of a rifle with 'patina' so you have thus joined the club!

Patina or not the SS and synthetics have a place in hunting. Theres both varieties in my safe and I will always reach for the tupperware when the terrain or the weather call for them.



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
Though the ammo may be expensive, its future unassured and the barrel life shortened, I think the flat-shooting 270WSM is great for tahr.

Sighting it to be only 3cm high at 100m helps limit the vagaries of shooting up and down hill, which are much more complicated than knowing the horizontal distance.

My humble rifle is a stainless Tikka T3 with a plastic stock. With a small scope, I think it weighs less than 7lb. A laminated stock might be more reliable but costs and weighs more. The action is longer than needed but you have to pay a fair bit more to gain any great saving in the length and weight departments.

The scope on mine is an equally humble Leupold VX-1 2-7x. I've managed to drop the rifle three times on shingle slides without any apparent loss of zero. I did use a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 but think the big objective bell (or erector tube) may have contributed to my missing a chamois at 100 yards after a bump that would not worry a reticle-movement Kahles I'd used for decades.

Another reason I don't like high-magnification scopes is their need of constant parallax adjustment. Side knobs sound great and work well but when the big fella appears out yonder I'm inclined to forget about everything but taking the shot.

For this reason I like a very flat shooting calibre but do not advocate using it for extreme distances; not having to obsess about the exact distance within three or four-hundred yards is all I want. For this reason I think that if 6x magnification is not enough to make the shot, the critter is probably too far to hold steady on, for most people.
 
Posts: 5230 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of kiwiwildcat
posted Hide Post
Hey guys,

Here is my custom Remington 700 Mountain Rifle chambered in 6.5 mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum. The action has been trued, blue printed and fitted with a fluted Criterion 24 inch, 1:8 twist barrel and professionally bedded into a McMillan McWoody synthetic stock. Action has a number of custom parts and gives the rifle a really nice custom touch. All up weight is just over 6.5 lbs and balances perfectly. Barrel is No.4 contour and fluted. All metal work Cerakoted for ultimate in weather protection.

I am currently doing ladder testing with H1000, but have a very promising load at 62.0/62.5grs at 3050/3072 fps, pushing a 143gr Hornady ELD-X and groups into 0.5 MOA. This essentially duplicates .264 Winchester Magnum performance, these loads are warm, but not hot. Maximum in my rifle is 64grs

Recoil is about the same as a .270, and quite pleasant to shoot despite of the light weight.

This rifle to me is what I would call the perfect Mountain Rifle.

Total cost to build the bare rifle was just over $3K which I think is a bargain. Most of the Remington parts such as the bolt and bottom metal / stock & original barrel I sold to offset the cost of the build. No offense to anyone but I cannot see the justification for the price of some factory rifles out there. I'm thinking in particular of the Browning White Gold which I've see retailing for $2850.00 and I think it's totally impractical with very glossy stock and metal finish.

[URL=[url=http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/kiwishooter-7mm/media/SAM_0938.jpg.html]


She was only the Fish Mongers daughter. But she lay on the slab and said 'fillet'
 
Posts: 511 | Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Registered: 22 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
My eyesights fading,are there any scratches dents and dings in her? Big Grin

Looks to be a ripper btw!



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of kiwiwildcat
posted Hide Post
No dings or dents yet, only had her back just over a week and finishing off load development.

The photo doesn't really do the rifle justice.


She was only the Fish Mongers daughter. But she lay on the slab and said 'fillet'
 
Posts: 511 | Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Registered: 22 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
You want a rifle that hits hard enough to put an animal down quickly before it has the chance to become unrecoverable. One that shoots flat enough that you can just laydown and shoot quickly without having to mess with other equipment, and one that is light enough to climb all day with as well as being able to use it as a walking stick at times.
Anything from 270 to 300 win mag is about right I think.
 
Posts: 5002 | Location: South Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of eagle27
posted Hide Post
BTW and nobody has mentioned it, but a rangefinder may be handy for those with little experience in the type of country inhabited by tahr and chamois. I don't have one and just use the guestimate method for ranging animals. Can be a bit hard when animals are in the craggy country but I'm a bit like sambarman, once I spot an animal I want I forget about everything else and just get on with job in hand.

Others I've hunted with use rangefinders, I don't know that I notice any greater success rate on downing animals, they seem to have their share of misses or need multiple shots to finally connect. It all comes down in most cases as to how steady you can hold and what effect the almost always present wind will have on your shot.
 
Posts: 3952 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
The Shankster had from memory five shots at a Chamois running across a scree face and he wondered why he hadn't hit it as he thought (from Memory again) that it was about 400..I ranged the spot the very next day and it was around 700 (FM again)

Crystal clear air and steep slopes made it look a lot closer.

The RF`s are a really valuable tool,not absolutely necessary but valuable,especially in the binos.



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
For myself I rate a Rangefinder as absolutely necessary. I wouldn't hunt Chamois / Tahr without one. My mountain range guesstimation has always been pretty hopeless which I proved to myself beyond doubt when playing with my first Rangefinder. Now I take those slightly longer shots with much more confidence and certainty as I have first put myself into position at a known distance.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 2143 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Nah wasnt that Gryph. I had a rangefinder and dial up scope. It was about 400 from where I was, but I fucked up the clicks. Id forgotten to take them back to the start from a previous encounter and added more on. I will always remember that one. It was a really good chamois.
I did away with the dial up after that, and went to a B&C style one.
 
Posts: 5002 | Location: South Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
Hmmm,I seem to remember something like I said,perhaps it was us both guestimating another...

FKED if I know now haha



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I'm not to sure about the requirement for "powerful rifles" on Tahr, I've shot a bunch with my 250-3000, several with a 7x64 and a few with the 6.5x47. I've seen them shot with everything from 222's to 300 win mag.

However this little story is very illustrative, I took some young guys up the hill (only a 1000 meter climb, made the fit rugby players ring gears fair hang out - nothing like the cunning of old age) and we broke out onto the tops in the same place as I'd been a few weeks before. On that previous trip we'd shot a couple of Thar but couldn't recover them as they slid into an icy gully that was too dangerous to get down into.

So when I saw a nice young bull right in the same gully my heart sunk a bit - no use shooting when it was unrecoverable. Then it climbed out onto a rock, and after a bit of study I figured we could get out onto the same rock. One of the young guys had a 7mm Rem mag that I knew was using 180gn bullets and he was pretty good with it - range 180 meters. I told him to shoot it through both shoulders, it obliged by turning side on and I saw the hit in exactly the right place. The Tahr slumped and lay still on top of the rock. We waited 5 minutes for it to harden up, and all stood up.

At that point my faith in "powerful rifles" was considerably reduced, the Tahr gave a last reflexive kick and launched itself down the icy gully - lost!
 
Posts: 605 | Location: Southland, New Zealand | Registered: 11 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of eagle27
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tentman:
I'm not to sure about the requirement for "powerful rifles" on Tahr, I've shot a bunch with my 250-3000, several with a 7x64 and a few with the 6.5x47. I've seen them shot with everything from 222's to 300 win mag.

However this little story is very illustrative, I took some young guys up the hill (only a 1000 meter climb, made the fit rugby players ring gears fair hang out - nothing like the cunning of old age) and we broke out onto the tops in the same place as I'd been a few weeks before. On that previous trip we'd shot a couple of Thar but couldn't recover them as they slid into an icy gully that was too dangerous to get down into.

So when I saw a nice young bull right in the same gully my heart sunk a bit - no use shooting when it was unrecoverable. Then it climbed out onto a rock, and after a bit of study I figured we could get out onto the same rock. One of the young guys had a 7mm Rem mag that I knew was using 180gn bullets and he was pretty good with it - range 180 meters. I told him to shoot it through both shoulders, it obliged by turning side on and I saw the hit in exactly the right place. The Tahr slumped and lay still on top of the rock. We waited 5 minutes for it to harden up, and all stood up.

At that point my faith in "powerful rifles" was considerably reduced, the Tahr gave a last reflexive kick and launched itself down the icy gully - lost!


Can relate to that but on the opposite effect; on one of our tahr trips my nephew shot a meat animal in the evening to take out on our chopper pick up the next morning. The animal was 80m away standing on a huge glacial boulder in the creek bed which my nephew knew he could not climb but expected the animal to kick a bit and roll into the creek bed. Dropped like a stone to his 7mm Mag but didn't oblige with a kick so it forever stays on that boulder.
 
Posts: 3952 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
I think the K brigade would have feasted pretty bloody quickly.



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
G'Day Fella's,

Further to this subject, here is what I'm in the process of putting together.
http://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5952

Doh!
Homer


Lick the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity Just Once and You Will Suck For Life!
 
Posts: 459 | Location: Canberra, Australia | Registered: 21 July 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of gryphon1
posted Hide Post
hoy sergeant homer..keep looking for the stocks,there are many more around the world.

Heres a few of them H with prices.
+

https://www.stockysstocks.com/...ralight-hunting.html



Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002
 
Posts: 3183 | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of kiwiwildcat
posted Hide Post
quote:
Further to this subject, here is what I'm in the process of putting together


Homer, that will be an awesome build.

I'm heading out to the range this afternoon with my 6.5 mm SAUM in tow. I have some ladder testing to do with Hodgon Superperformance. Incidently, I'm using two grains below 6.5 mm Remington Magnum max as a starting point for my rifle.

Have you considered using a Remington 700 Wyatts extended mag box for your Model 7? There are a few guys who have done this. I get an extra 5 mm of mag length and can seat the longest 140gr VLD'S out so that the base of the bullet is just above the shoulder which still gives plenty of powder space.

I'm pushing 143gr Hornady ELD-X projectiles easily at 3050 fps and initial testing shows groups hovering around half MOA. This from a 24 inch barrel. You should get over 300 fps quite easily in your 6.5 mm Remington Magnum.

Cheers,

Mike.


She was only the Fish Mongers daughter. But she lay on the slab and said 'fillet'
 
Posts: 511 | Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Registered: 22 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of kiwiwildcat
posted Hide Post
homer homer

Just saw your note on Wyatt mag box on the text above your rifle pic.


She was only the Fish Mongers daughter. But she lay on the slab and said 'fillet'
 
Posts: 511 | Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Registered: 22 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
G'Day Fella's,

Thank You for that link Gryphon1!
In the past, I have used many High-Tech Specialties synthetic stocks http://www.legendaryarmsworks....cialties-inc-stocks/ (21 to 23 oz weight unfinished/out of the mold, + Bedding, Cerakote, Recoil Pad), and I'm very happy with them but they have had issues exporting to Oz and NZ. So they no longer (at present), export to us blokes!

Kiwiwildcat, that sound like a great rifle/chambering combo, for all NZ (and no shortage of other)game animals! And quite impressive velocity/group size performance!!!
Yes, I purchased a few of the different length Wyatt extended mag boxes for the M-7 and 700, as I want to fit one to this (6.5RM) rifle and another to my Rem 673 (M-7) rifle in .350RM, for that extended cartridge length capacity.
Please keep us posted on your rifle and your hunting adventures with it!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer


Lick the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity Just Once and You Will Suck For Life!
 
Posts: 459 | Location: Canberra, Australia | Registered: 21 July 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Von Gruff
posted Hide Post
Not the same HV as shown but I am in the process of putting a 6.5x57 together.
I was given one of the most spectacular pieces of walnut I have worked with for the stock so this one will be quite special. Blind mag stock and while it is primarily suited for the Tally aperture sight, there will be a scope in Talley QD rings for when it is necessary.

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forum...Erfurt-custom-6-5x57


Von Gruff.

http://www.vongruffknives.com/

Gen 12: 1-3

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


 
Posts: 2694 | Location: South Otago New Zealand. | Registered: 08 February 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
G'Day Fella's,

Von Gruff, I hope you are Fit and Well?

Sounds like a great project and a great looking stick of Walnut to suit!

Regards
Homer


Lick the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity Just Once and You Will Suck For Life!
 
Posts: 459 | Location: Canberra, Australia | Registered: 21 July 2009Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia