We get so upset? Take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWGX9Nif5vs

In a short period of time that chopper has chased nearly every Tahr in the catchment. That bull looks to be driven to exhaustion,see how it lay down and tried to hide when the chopper hovered over it, theres no other way it would stay put while a chopper lands close enough to let it be shot.At 6 years, its only just reached maturity, real trophies don't start untill 8 or 9 which is why the guide claimed the trophy is the mane, because the horns were shit.

It is surprising that they put this shit on the internet and I am guessing TV.

The first couple of minutes were bad. Lots of stags though. Hmmmmmm............???????

Hi Shanks, TJ here in another disguise.

I happened to see that a week or so ago and was stunned. Makes you wonder what the pilot of the machine thinks about the whole thing.

Probably doesnt give a big rats arse, he,s getting paid. However with one or twelve beers inside him it could be an interesting yarn

After 40 odd years of hunting it saddens me to see just how pathetic some hunters are and I am no saint by any means.

What is really pathetic is that most of them seem to come from the States. Dont you guys feel embarassed?? You bloody well ought to

Interesting comments TJ, especially true about the beers. I worked with enough chopper pilots to know that most are whores to their machines. They will do anything to keep them flying, but later, you should hear them talk.
As we all know, thats where the root of this problem lies, with the pilots and the guides and all we can do is ask those hunters from overseas not to use operators that take part in these activities.
The good news is that its likely from this September, that they will no longer be able to hide behind a WARO concession.

Shankspony,
Thanks for posting this. I am glad that you made me aware of some of the things that go on down there so I did not unknowingly become involved in something like this that does not interest me. Chop3r, as an American I don't have any interest in a trophy I did not earn. I don't know, but I would venture that most of the hunters in these pathetic hunts come from the states, because most of the foreign hunters coming to NZ are from the states. If 80% of the foreign hunters are American, then common sense would dictate that 80% of the hunters that are comfortable with this method are American also. I might not be correct, just speculation. I certainly do think it is embarassing, but I would hope that you feel just as embarassed for your fellow countrymen that are marketing these hunts and providing this service. My opinion from the outside looking in is that no one in that video was free of blame. Just did not seem ethical.

*By the way Shankspony, My wife and I looked over a couple of those websites and she was going to start shopping tickets for NZ. We aren't 100% on the NZ versus Namibia for next year, but if NZ wins out I might like to bounce some more questions off you.

Fair enough comment and I can respect your thoughts on this issue. I for one would rather give the whole deal up then to do what was shown on youtube but thats just me and I suspect the views of more than one or two other Kiwis as well. I would very surprised if many if any Kiwis would hunt in that manner. They are just too bloody stubborn.

The guys that run these types of hunt in NZ, do they embarass me? Good question, I think that they are just trying to line their pockets the same as many others but many consider that the way they are doing it is unethical, a funny word in some societies.
They know its wrong but they portray it to the paying punter as being right. Embarassed, nah, not since I last shit my pants.

These people are just pathetic. I have a feeling that someone is going to end up in Court one day and I just hope that it is not the paying client.

Lets hope that the message is getting out there

Someone has ducked and run for cover. The video has been removed from youtube. My my my

Bugger!

Taken down already? That was fast! Only had around 300 views when I watched a couple hours ago.
Chop3r; Thanks for the reply. I agree with you that what was on youtube just isn't the way I want to pursue something. It sounds to me from what I read here on this forum that you guys and others like you are making motions to do away with this kind of hunting as we speak. What do you think is a realistic timeline for that happening? Also, out of curiosity what kind of support does the other side of this argument have. I would be interested to hear an opposing take on this. It isn't hard to see that most of us here agree at least in the big picture. I haven't even been to NZ so I don't pretend to know anything at all, maybe that is why learning more about the argument for both sides interests me, even though I personally know that shooting game (can't call it hunting) in this manner is not something I'm comfortable with.

Hey there Sevenxbjt, good to see you back. Feel free to bounce any questions or idea's off me anytime.

What kind of support do the other side have? from the general population, I would say next to none, Its only ambivalence on behalf of the authorities that allows this to happen, because the dept thats reponsible for public land treat these creatures as pests. The Dept of Conservation have tried again and again to sway public opinion as to the status of Tahr, but they are just too reagal an animal for the average person to buy into the crap.
The DOC are complisit in helihunting as it sees it's another way to devalue the image of Tahr, and all those hunters who selfishly take part in helihunting are helping to destroy the best free range herd in existance.

By the way, a New Zealand hunter recently got caught out entering a helishot Tahr in a competion and word is he had to flee the prizegiving for his own safety. To answer your question, yes it embarrass's me and angers me that Anyone from our country would do this or take a guest too our country on one of these hunts.

Glad to hear that at least your public is smart enough to know that just because an agency says it is ok doesn't make it so. Wish we had a few more level-headed folks in our public here. I Think it is great that your hunting community is policing itself, that might help to "shame" some of these operators from conducting these hunts. After learning from you guys here and talking to those friends of mine that just got back from NZ I have tried to pass it along to another group of guys that are looking into going down there that this goes on and isn't something that should be looked at as "when in Rome" and that they should ask these questions hiring there outfitter. Maybe if everyone here in the states that has been educated about this informs one hunter friend that is thinking of going to NZ, less clients will choose to book with operators that use these methods. One thing about it, if that happens the marketplace will correct the problem. Unfortunately, I think as long as this is an option for hunting Tahr, there will be clients to be booked.

I did not need to respond as Shanks has got it bang on.

Speaking of which Shanks, I will let you know when I am heading down the line and we can sort out the stock. OK?

I beleive the vid might be circulating the net again, this looks an awful lot like it.
http://www.box.net/shared/ca7rilloi6

Be good to meet you chop3r, will have the jug on.

Oscar perhaps?

"Canned" "hunts" like this chopper "hunt" really devalue any trophy from NZ.

Because it is almost always questioned how even legitimate fair chase trophies were obtained. Sad.

Also is carrying a customer flying like that legal?

Oscar without a doubt. Its getting pretty organised now, well done guys keep up the good work. Believe Oscar has it copied if you really want i can copy and paste it back but its just the same sorry stuff we all shake our heads at.

I quote their website - "a man dedicated to preserving and promoting the sport" - you have got to be joking. A hunter? More like a chequebook collector drumming up business for like minded twits. No respect or regard for his quarry.

What a pathetic display.

What amazes me is that guys like this 'hunter' (and I use the term loosely) can execute animals in this manner without even the slightest feeling that what he has done is not ethical or right. If we are ever to save our sport, we need to hunt with the principles of fair chase foremost in our minds and the last thing we need is cheating shooters plastering their exections all over the internet.

Whoa!

I really look forward to reading the Australian and New Zealand Hunting posts. Seeing that fellow talk about what a wonderful hunt he'd just had...what a horses behind!!

Matt

quote:

What is really pathetic is that most of them seem to come from the States. Dont you guys feel embarassed?? You bloody well ought to

I'm not so much embarrassed for the idiots that do that crap, I'm pissed. Its pathetic, no matter what country they come from.

Hello Folks

I haven't watched this one, to me most these things are just too sick to be bothered with.

What really concerns me is that H and J's Outdoor World (a Gun City franchise of some sort) down here in Invercargill was playing a bow hunting video with Tahr as the "game" - on their public LCD screen. I sort of watched it for a bit, and couldn't figure out why the "hunter" got such an easy shot with his bow. Later on I realised that the animal must have been chased down by chopper till it bailed in a gully where they could put the "hunter" down close enough.

The thing about this video was it was being shown where a lot of impressionalbe young hunters were bound to see it, and if I missed the "connotations" of what was going on first off, what chance would a young guy have ??

I'm going to have to go and give the guy who runs the store a piece of my mind. The fact that it was a "commercial video" is also very dis-heartening.

Cheers - Foster

I watched the video but did not catch the name of the Outfitter or Guide.
Who is it?

The registration number on the white helicopter is HQL

These are the details

ZK Registration Mark : ZK-HQL
Aircraft : KHI Kawasaki-Hughes369HS
Serial Number : 6633
Aircraft Type : Helicopter
Max. Takeoff Weight : 1156 kg
Aircraft Owner : Station Air Ltd
Mesopotamia Station
RD 20
Peel Forest 7990

It would appear that the helicopter is connected with Mesopotamia Station, I know the name of the guide and the outfitter anyone really wants to know PM me.
Well now you start to understand what we are upset about and right now we need help.
Privilege and position amongst a few heli-hunting supporters has got the ear of several govt ministers.
We are trying like hell to close the loopholes that allow this but there is a fear NZ hunters may lose the legal battle yet. You can email our govt ministers and tell them what a bad image of New Zealand this type of hunting sends and how you would not wish to hunt in countries that allow this to be legal.
The WARO permits that were the camoflage for this sort of hunt are being withdrawn and NZ hunters are trying to get stronger more robust concessions outlawing this introduced.
Don't let the heli-hunters carry on like this.
2005 survey data from tells us 60% of the guided hunts in NZ are for North American clients. a further 20% Australian you guys are 80% of the market.
I am ashamed that we allow this to happen in New Zealand.

Minister of Conservation Tim Groser
tim.groser@parliament.govt.nz
Minister of Tourism John Key
john.key@parliament.govt.nz

Thanks

Weathered

I have discussed this with Eric Roy (Southland's MP) and he avows that he is opposed to it. Frankly I don't know, but its important to get in the ear of a few MP's who will listen and articulate concerns and reasons to them so that they can put up convincing arguments with Cabinet Ministers. I'd be interested if any other MP's are at least known to listen. Cheers.

HOLY SH1T!

Is this what our own countrymen/government/conservation department allow and promote!

Embarressed? - More like highly pissed!

I would hesitate to call this sort of thing 'hunting'! Execution would be a better word to use!

Sport? I don't think so!

Heli hunting, now there's a thing, wonder how they would cope with being hunted?, would you have to take out the jesus nut? wait for them to run low on fuel & take em while drinking? seriously though, how can anyone call themselves a "Hunter" having their ass hauled round by chopper? Sad tw*ts!

Don't know if I should say but....

I was talking with someone that was right up with the play on this hunt, it seems that the client INSISTED on a chopper....

I didnt get to see that utube clip..however i watched a dvd this weekend called new zealand trophy quest.

It was mainly an alright dvd but how they obtained this big thar was sickening.

they chased this thar around the mountain till it was absolutely stuffed, it was running down a little gut thing, and they flew down below it in the chopper, dropped the yank and his bow off, and took off again. i assume they hunted the thar right down ontop of him.

the yank barely had to take a single step and he shot this thar with his bow. the chopper then picked him and the thar up and put them in a nice place for a photo.

I dont understand how he even considers it a trophy, wasnt earnt or nothing. shooting a pet cat would be more of a challenge.

And with a bow makes it even siker in my opinion. You take up the bow too add some challeng to your hunting, so why take all the challenge back out?

quote:

Originally posted by wirehunt:
Don't know if I should say but....

I was talking with someone that was right up with the play on this hunt, it seems that the client INSISTED on a chopper....

Didnt mean they had to accommodate them??

I've told plenty of clients NO.. mostly to my (financial) detriment.