OVER the years have read about Salt water corcs getting to great size...even rumored 30 footers.

How about adding fact to fiction and advising just what is the largest actual provable/reliable/recorded size that one has attained. Figured you folks "down under" might have the answer.

When I was growning up I did read in a book on some of the island campaigns during WWII of some battles where the Japanese were pushed into swamps and mangrove tidal areas and they were pretty much wiped out by the crocs during the nights.
Must be some seriously attitudinaly challenged lizards.
Curious.

LAWCOP

16 feet and about 1500 pounds would be considered the normal full size male.

18 feet and over 2000 pounds would probably equate to a man of 6 ft 6", that is, they are there and have been there but are far from common.

19 to 20 feet. There have been plent of photos of ones that size.

21 feet seems to be the largest where the size has been measured and there is solid evidence of the crocodile.

Big over estimates in length occur because of the huge increase in bulk that occurs with a small increase in length.

The Salt Water crocodile appears to be about 10% longer than the African Nile crocodile. In other words 16 ft 6" Salt Water crocs will be about as common as 15 ft Nile crocs. However that 10% increase in length will produce a croc about 20% heavier.

If even you get to see a croc like Cassius at 18 feet or his old mate Oscar at about 17ft 6" you will think they are about 40 feet long. I have a feeling that Oscar went to America and became Gomek. Maybe Nickudu knows for sure.

Mike

I have a photo of a croc skin that was supposed to measure out at 21-22ft. I'll try to find it again.

Mike
Good to see you here mate, you took your time.

Bakes

The largest properly measured salt-water crocodile (Crocodylus porosus) from Australia was 28 ft 4 inches long. It was shot in the Norman River in 1957 by Ms Krys Pawlowski. A full-size replica of this croc has been built by the Carpentaria Shire Council, and is on public display as a tourist attraction outside the shire offices in Normanton.

Next time you are passing through the Gulf Country, on holidays or whatever, go and have a look. You won't believe the size of that thing! Its a bloody dinosaur all right!

Seems the Fly River in PNG has big ones.

Try viewing this link;

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/brittoncrocs/cbd-faq-q2.htm

This photo was in the Territory paper. It is said to be 6 meters long.

Bakes

Had read in a book about the 29' it also talked about an unconfirmed 32'

I have a friend that lives down under that has seen crocks that were 2 feet between the eyes!!!
That's a big crock.

Hawkeye47

Hawkeye, was that two one-eyed crocs side by side and after 10 beers apiece!

There is no solid evidence of the 28 footers. If one did exist he would weigh about 4 tons, that is, 8 times heavier than a 14 footer.

But such giants may exist.

A bloke out here called Malcolm Douglas who has a crocodile farm etc has said that a 24 footer is there. He bases the measurement on the one metre spacing of the floats on a net which the crocodile was near. He has also allowed for the net not being straight.

Who knows?

I can tell you this. When you see Cassius at 18 feet compared to a 14 footer....then a 24 footer is beyond your imagination.

To give you an idea of how big Cassius is.....if he grabbed an African lion in his jaws it would be similar to a big lizard grabbing a mouse, that is, half the animal will be inside the jaws and the other half will be hanging outside the jaws.

And by the way, I don't think you would shoot him. Like the Elephant with the big tusks you would be saying to yourself "it took many years for the animal to get there and the pleasure of seeing such an animal etc."

Mike

Sorry Mike if Cassius poped up near my tinny, he'd have the barrel of a rifle pointed at him and I'd be saying "Holy shit start the motor, START THE BLOODY MOTOR " !

Just out of interest the Territory Government has released a plan to cull 1100 salties and 1200 freahies every year. The cull will take place on Aborigional and pastoral land and meat and skins will be sold. Now I don't know if this means sport hunting will be allowed (I doubt it) but there was talk of allowing sport hunting problem croc's on cattle stations, a few years ago.

To view the plan look at the site below
www.nt.gov.au/ipe.pwent/

Bakes

Ive been to the croc farms in Cairns and seen the model of a croc which was 28 foot. They are so much deeper and wider, not just longer. They also had info on the 28 or 29 footer which the women shot near Karumba. So yes 28-29 foot long crocs do exist.

Yea im with bakes I wouldnt be saying "Just think how many years it took to grow to be that size". NoSirReBob I would be Aiming for the smile and hopping to god Ihit the brain.... While bakes keep yelling START THE BLOODY MOTOR!!! =)

Funny how, as you get on in age, your thinking begins to shift a bit. No doubt at all I would have been 100% keen to shoot a monster croc but now I'm not so sure .... maybe because they are so scarce these days(?).

I would probably be the same with some big elephant or rhino or any other very large and impressive animal.

In short I get great pleasure from seeing one of them while at the same time knowing how many years it will take for the smaller one to get to that size.

In fact many years ago where I shoot we were out one night and saw the biggest red roo you have ever seen. Even the property owner said "lets leave him and see if we come across him again". In the space of the few seconds that he stood there we were tempted to blast him just so we could get to see up close how big he really was, but we let him go.

However, I have never had any interest in trophy hunting. If I went to Africa I would ask how much discount could I get for animals with broken horns so I could shoot more for the same dollars.

My best shooting mate who has been to Africa 4 times reckons I am strictly a shooter and he is a shooter and a hunter. He said to me that if he had been shooting that night there would have been one very large red roo all nicley mounted

Mike

I think I would pass on shooting something that big. Out of respect for the age and what it would have gone through to get there. don't know i I would pass on the big bull elephant, maybe. Something awe inspiring about ancient wonders, especially living ones. hmmmmmm...

something to think about.

Red

I know what your saying Mike. There's a few things I wouldn't be able to shoot. Elephant is one,Rhino, big brown bear,Lion. I have no worries hunting anything with horns and antlers though. Perhaps I look at animals with horns and antlers as "lesser" for want of a better word, or as "cattle" with no indivduality if you understand what I'm trying to say

Nick,
I don't really follow crocs as an interest but not sure how scarce they are.There are landowners who will tell you they are 'a plague again'.Whether they ahve been left alone long enough to be getting real big would be another point though.

In some areas I think they are almost shootable again? Or they were talking about it?
Bakes or Mike375 might know more about this.

Karl.

Big crocs and Great Whites fascinate me, no end. Awesome. Elephant are so darn intelligent, I can't get myself "ready" to shoot one. Rhino are relics of another age and have suffered so much as a species, I simply don't care to shoot one. Hippo? A non-hunt, unless caught out and about, IMO. In Buffalo, I find a prolific and exciting adversary. I could shoot a thousand and sleep well. Just another theme that tells us how differently we view things, from the next fellow and maybe from ourselves, at another point in time.

Mike - I missed your question above. Yes, I think you are correct that "Oscar" became "Gomek". At least, I know I have read this more than once. I suppose the name "Oscar" didn't sound quite sensational enough over here! ($$$$)

Nick

I see buffalo as varmints as I also see cattle, antelope, deer etc. All are shit that reproduces often. These are all animals that make the balance of nature work and each of them is about as interesting as the grass they eat!!!

Having said that if I had the moeny to shoot the shit out of them like Saeed can, then I would be over there doing it. My guess is that the African buffalo offers the best combination of bullet/calibre testing, availability, pricing etc.

If a zoo announces that is has the biggest buffalo or the biggest Eland the world has ever seen, then ticket sales increase by 9.

But biggest shark, biggest elephant, biggest snake, biggest rhino, biggest crocodile and etc. then ticket sales will go up by a lot more than 9 tickets.

I do agree with you that Oscar needed a name change for the trip to the US

By the way, if there is any doubt about how old they get, I first saw Cassius and Oscar around 1973 (when they were both big) and Cassius is still going.

If Bakes saw Cassius in the wild he would not shoot him. He may think he would shoot....but he would not shoot.

Nick, you have no idea what Cassius is like when he stands up. Fucking amazing is all I can say.

When I first saw Cassius and Oscar it was a trip to Cairns with my first wife of about 2 years and it was driven by seeing Cassuis and Oscar and the trip also fitted in with my first wife's plans. So all was OK.

So we get to Cairns and I talk about we go to Green Island. To cut a very long story short Sue thought she would see a couple of big lizards on Green Island and that would be just a small interruption as Green Island was an overnight stay and bullshit etc.

However, things changed!! You would be amazed at how the sheer bulk of the big crocodile impacts on people.

Now to give you an idea of how impressive Cassius is/was and the impression left on Sue....back in early September 2003 my first wife Sue went to my mother's funeral and Sue and I had not seen or spoken to each other for many years....so guess what subject she brings up....reptiles as in Cassius.

If Bakes shoots him I will shoot Bakes

By the way, there is a croc in one of Sydneys smaller zoos who is going to be a monster. He is nearly 16 feet but young. He still has real yellow and black markings and is quite lean. In fact he just looks like an 11 footer scaled up. He is going to be a big one...bigger than Cassius. Of course we might have to wait another 50 years unless Bakes nips him in the bud in 30 years time

Mike

[ 12-07-2003, 14:53: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

You better be a good shot Mike cause you'll only get one go at it

Would I shoot a big croc? If I had the money yes I would. But since I'll never have the $ well...
If a croc came at me when I was fishing, bloody oath I would, no question about it, self preservation kicks in. If the NT government decides to make hunting legal it will be interesting to see what the prices will be. US or Aussie dollars you think?

Mike, is that Eric your talking about? I saw him before I came to the NT. Bit of a cranky bugger. If I remember right he's responsible for killing at least one person.

Bakes,

I think Eeric might have been the name used for him.

Where he was is just down the road from Horsley Park Gun Shop.

Mike

Karl,

Funny you mention that as the Judo bloke that organised the trip just sent me out an email on Xmas greetings etc.

Mike

Bakes

I think it is called Australia Wonderland and is a mixture of rides and zoo.

The first time I went there with was with a mate as we were both going to Horsley Park. I said I wanted to see the croc and so we went. On the way I noticed he had a T Shirt with "Tobler Barrels..made by a shooter for shooters" written front and back of the shirt. So we thought it would be interesting to see any reaction. We got none and you tell me just did not notice. That reconfitmed my opinion that gun laws are about gun owners, anti gunners and politicians and the rest are not even spectators.

Eric and Gosford Reptile Park now rings a bell.

Mike

If I saw a 28 foot croc and I had a new "sporting permit" and was allowed to take him I would.

Seriously if you were hunting and saw such a monster would you actually say "No, lets look for a smaller one" ! ?

Now if it was a special crocodile that had a "name" and everyone knew about, probably no, just like no sensible hunter would shoot one of the huge elephants that are well known - in Kruger or elsewhere. In any case you would not be permitted to shoot one of these.

I can understand the joy of watching such a beast instead of just shooting it. My best African memory is of three kudu, including the largest one I have ever had the chance to plug walking 20 metres or so behind us across a field. We were hunting buffalo a couple of hundred metres in front. But they were so magical as they walked directly behind us to cross the field.

I've been to wonderland when it first opened. Didn't have a zoo then, I'll have to take the kids down and see whats changed.

Bugger the Crocs,it's the Dropbears you have to worry about!
Big buggers too,dropping from the trees on people.

If I saw a 28 foot croc and I had a new "sporting permit" and was allowed to take him I would.

A couple of things.

The odds of a 28 footer is about as close to zero as you can get. The husband and wife pro shooters who claim to have shot a 28 footer are apparently two people that everything else they have said is true. So...maybe....but there was never any evidence.

Now let us look at such an animal.

His (it will be a he) weight is easy to calculate as it will be the cube of his increase in length over say a 15-16 footer.

Thus we have 28/15.5 cubed X 1200 pounds.
That is 5.9 X 1200 pounds = 7000 pounds.

That is conservative as many crocodiles at the 15.5 feet length are 1400 pounds and more....so our 28 footer might weigh as much as 8200 pounds.

Personally, I would want to catch him and then sell him Imagine the dollars you would make. You could hunt Cape buffalo and Nile crocs for the rest of your life.

I believe if you saw the 28 footer you would be so overcome you would not shoot him.

Mike

[ 12-08-2003, 16:36: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

That's a reptile in the same weight class as carnivores like the Allosaurus. What an icon it would be.

Don't worry Mike, NitroX said he won't shoot any animal that has been given a name.

Thus I bestow all 25ft+ crocodiles as yet undiscovered the name 'Tim' from this point on- and so save them from the trophy room.

Karl.

Karl,

Even with no name I think Nitro X would let the 28 footer go.

By the way, not only would he be as big or bigger than Allosaurus but his "close to the ground" build would allow him to catch small prey like frogs, lizards, rats and rabbits etc. This bloke would survive where Allosaurus or T Rex would fail.

Just a thought

Mike

How much do these big crocs generally eat? Would they be a serious pest if the took up residence in a river through a stock farm?

Pete
They don't need much to eat as they have a slow metabolism. But they do become a problem by taking cattle and horses. They can be culled by ststions IF they are killing stock.

Pete,

The son of a mate of mine is the reptile keeper at one of our smaller zoos in Sydney (Bakes, this is Featherdale out Blacktown way).

They have a crocodile that is close to 14 feet and he weighs 900 pounds. In the warmer months (when he eats) he will maintain his weight on a chicken or two a week.

Mike

Mike
Have you ever been to Mogo zoo on the south coast? Its worth a look. It started as a taxidermy stuido and grew from there.

Bakes

No. Where is it as I will be going down to Tobler's probably next week.

Mike

Mike
Its about 1/2 hour south of Batemans bay.