There has been some serious discussion elsewhere that this stag wasnt a "kosher trophy". ..care to analyse all aspects and offer your conclusions?

Dont see any eartags or earmarks , dont see any fences - do see a light in use but wheres the problem - so what are the arguments against it being legit at the "elsewhere" discussion ?

Muzza I think Gryph might be alluding to the atire of the hunter.
Gym boots no socks, blue jacket and pants - deer are meant to see very well in the blue/ultraviolet spectrum.

Mind not say the person in question doesn't have a place with river frontage(looks like wet lower legs) and just happened to see a stag cross the river in fornt of the house, grabbed a rifle and shot it out the window (stand hunting just doesn't get any easier than out of your house).

wearing a red balaclava anusally means spotlighting, cosidering the rest of the clothing. Is that a bullet hole between the eyes????
This to me is Murder not hunting.

But guys , morality is subjective...

If you deem spotlighting to be immoral then it is for you , if the other guy doesnt have an issue then is it still immoral?

I am sure there is a story to this pic that we arent privy to , and it may well be perfectly legitimate . Is there any chance of some more information Gryphon ?

Duggaboybuff - murder is a bit steep , given that none of us know the story here .And once again , it comes back to the selective morality issue .

I want to have more information .......

I have shot deer at night with a spotlight,most guys have down here,no its not hunting but does fill the freezer,most of the deer i have shot have escaped from a deer farm,if i saw that Sambar walking at night i would shoot it too,but we don't know how this deer was taken. Is spotlighting deer illegal in OZ???

quote:

Originally posted by TOP_PREDATOR:
Is spotlighting deer illegal in OZ???

It is very illegal in sambar range in Victoria.

Shooting any deer with a spotlight is a criminal offence in Victoria.... and so it should be!! To shoot animals with a light is not only unsporting and unethical (unless we are talking about pest eradication) but to me is like down right cheating as a hunter. Nothing gets my blood up more than to see a magnificent trophy Sambar Stag, an animal with so much to offer as a sporting/hunting challenge, than to see or hear of it being "taken" useing a spotlight.
Now maybe this guy did not shoot it this way, but to me the evidence looks quite likely that this is what did occur. And if so , i stand by my original statement and that is he basically "murdered" this Sambar Stag.

Duggaboy,

I hunt on a few properties where deer are accorded the same status as foxes and pigs - they're a bloody pest (supported by Gov't research).

'Murder' is an emotive term that the 'anti's' love to use against us...

I've shot deer under the light - for meat, or to keep numbers down.

I also 'stalk' deer, and respect them. But I don't worship them...

Cool , an argument brewing!

We still dont have any facts and are all jumping to conclusions.

It looks like a picture of someone with a dead deer , shot maybe under a spotlight . There are no other facts available so it isnt worth getting fired up about . If and when the story is revealed we can draw our own conclusions .

He didn't even get his pants dirty while he climbed down from the ute.

Duggaboy is right on the money with his comments,one of the reasons he has been invited to hunt with us this year,ethics are law in Victoria and its only a small minority of the 11,000 registered deer hunters here in Vic that break them...
back to the pic,sambar live in heavy going country and to take a stag ethically on foot in daytime one does NOT get around in a pair of runners,oh all right some do then,but no-one in his right mind would not wear socks...blackberry canes lashing the insteps of boots is common, no sign of it on those bare insteps,paddock scene also,sambar like paddocks yep (at night)
All rugged up for a night out too by the look of it,back of the ute cold proof clothing etc(dressed for a very cold night) it all points to it being taken in the light....maybe it was taken as a crop raider with a permit but the pic got around as being a trophy stag taken ethically...ethical my fucking arse!

FYI Kiwi`s spotlighting a trophy stag and posing it as a hard earned trophy is a huge no no with the game law mobs here in Victoria,ADA are dead set against it and the fellas that hunt sambar as they are meant to be hunted are the same....shooting a grazing game animal in the light is much the same as shooting a buffalo out of a chopper..or a fish in a barrel...

gryphon1, are you correct in saying there only 11,000 licensed hunters in Au?

No i meant 11,000 registered in Victoria alone...not counting other states at all.

Die Ou Jagter, I think Gryphon means that there are about 11,000 or so licensed DEER stalkers in Vic, not counting the other licensed shooters who are not licensed for deer.
Since the figures are about 22,000 licensed for waterfowl, the actual numbers of shooters/hunters in Vic is hard to pin down.

I dont have a problem with pest eradication with a spotlight, but a Sambar Stag does not come under this catergory.
"IF" the shooter in question has spotlighted it , I stand by my comment of murdering this trophy, of course "IF" he has taken it legally and ethically, and its a big "IF", well I take my hat off to him. Somehow I doubt it was taken legally or ethically.
Rugeruser...I dont nessasary worship them but i do traet them with respect as a game animal.The law in Victoria encourages the same.

This is the story of "HUNT"

The fella spotted the stag at 100m so up came the 30-06
The first shot in the chest then another as he moved off when he slowed down he shot 5 times spot on in the heart he could not belive how strong he was he just took off i keeped
tracking him for 30 minutes the so called hunter finds stag. By the time he got back to the vichle it was dark so he got some help to get him out his bro showed up with his camera.
but they waited till they got home to take so photo's(WHY? Beats me) They get home unloaded stag (which by the way took 5 people to load into the vechle after being shot. you would think they would have gutted it for the carry out if it was so heavy?) into paddock to take photos

Ok , so based on the story of the "hunt" as above - and I have no idea if it is true or not , but lets say it is anyway - would anyone from above care to change their thoughts or views on the morality of the hunt ?

I dont see the above tale as being one of murder as has been mentioned, and I am certainly not telling anyone what is right or wrong .

Having ethics and morals is fine and noble , but demanding that everyone else conform to those views is more immoral than hunting from a vehicle or using a spotlight or wearing sneakers in a paddock in the dark.

as i stated before:

of course "IF" he has taken it legally and ethically, and its a big "IF", well I take my hat off to him. Somehow I doubt it was taken legally or ethically.


Muzza, nobody is asking anybody to conform to my ethics, just asking them to respect the law, and more importantly the deer itself!

Muzza,

I agree with you...

It smacks of 'religious fundamentalism'...

Both my son and I have taken deer under 'ethical hunt' conditions at or near dusk, marked the location of the carcase, gone back to the homestead to get the 4x4 to bring the carcase out, taken photographs at the scene (prior to butchering)... we may have even taken our boots off, put sneekers on, and had a beer to celebrate before going back to the carcase.

If those pics were published here, I'm damned sure we'd be pilloried as 'unethical hunters'...

What concerns me is how readily people jump to conclusions, and condemn fellow hunters.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

I can't see how a guy has shot this deer 5 times with a 30-06 , with the help of 4 others loaded it into a vehicle , got home then unloaded it again and then ended up with this photo of himself with no blood on his clothes and looking rather clean!! Did he go and take a shower before the photo setion? why? he still hasn't dressed the deer??

Duggaboy, I have no desire to start an argument, but I don't take any pics of either myself, nor my son, in camo with a dead animal...

Why?

Family Court!!!

btw, I'm the custodial parent, but my ex trawls sites such as AHN and this site looking for 'evidence'...

Rugeruser......evidence of what?? are you breaking the law? if not what have you got to hide?I have no problem with being in a photo with a dead animal that I have just shot. these are my favourite photos that I look at time and time again. I have happily posted a few on AR and will continue to do so. I have nothing to hide. In fact I am quite proud of them.

quote:

What concerns me is how readily people jump to conclusions, and condemn fellow hunters.

I don't think anyone has jumped to conclusions here - the photo, and the way this thead was posed, imply that there is something wrong with the scenario behind the taking of this animal.

I am not commenting on the photo, by the way, I deliberately stayed out of this one because I thought that it was a 'trick question'.

All I really want to say is let's not degenerate into the 'shit-fight' arguments that have been prevalent elsewhere on this site.

The only thing this thread proves is that photos can be deceiving.

quote:

Originally posted by BwanaBob:
I don't think anyone has jumped to conclusions here - the photo, and the way this thead was posed, imply that there is something wrong with the scenario behind the taking of this animal...

The only thing this thread proves is that photos can be deceiving.

BwanaBob, and look at the 'conclusions' people have jumped to...

C'mon Guys, this ethics debate has been done to death on this and other forums.
Laws are what govern our behavior collectively.
Ethics are what govern our behavior individually.
This kind of arguement only serves to play into the hands of the anti's.
Everyone knows (or should know) that spotlighting deer in Victoria is illegal. If you are caught, the penalty is severe.
I personally think that spotlighting is an effective method of pest control. However, I do not regard it as hunting, to me it is just shooting, as a form of selective pest control.
Like I said, others may well see it differently.
JMHO

this photo raises many questions !!! this is definatley not sambar hunting attire

SAMBAR 9.3...spotligting may be illegal but you tell me how many spotlighters has it stopped,it seems to me that spotlighters are been bred at a higher rate than stalkers....another curse in the high country these days is NIGHT VISION!!!
regards daniel

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:


Having ethics and morals is fine and noble , but demanding that everyone else conform

The GAME LAW`s of Victoria demand that we conform cobber...simply that! No ifs no buts at all!

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
this photo raises many questions !!! this is definatley not sambar hunting attire

SAMBAR 9.3...spotligting may be illegal but you tell me how many spotlighters has it stopped,it seems to me that spotlighters are been bred at a higher rate than stalkers....another curse in the high country these days is NIGHT VISION!!!
regards daniel

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Vic law says NO electronic devices may be used to take deer in Vic, with the only execption being dog tracking collars. NVGs definately fall into the category of banned, and the penalty is the same as spotlighting.
Sure, there are spotlighters out there. That's what phones and radios are for, calling the cops. And, if you think that the cops and DSE aren't on to it, you are kidding yourself. Some of the tricks they use to catch spotlighters are great.

Well if that is the story I find it hard to beleive he was stalking dressed as he is in the photo. Not to say that he might not have got changed when he got home.
Also unlikely to to not have gutted deer before putting it in the car, I mean it was already shot 5 times so not like it would have mad more mess in the car.

I have some photo's of rabbits I have shot with a bow and by the time photo is taken in the twilight looks like they are taken at night.

Would have to read regulations again but isn't the law not taking of game (this includes deer even though they are introduced) 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise.

Sambar 9.3 or anyone else,
Does the "electronic devices" include hand-held CB radios used during a hunt???

Regarding the photo ... the person that shot the stag has their conscience to contend with, why not just leave it at that?
Cheers...
Con

CB radios are legall for saftey reasons.

Con, the problem is they guy does not have a conscience

I can see this going round in circles for ever...

Maybe we should move on to something new and less likely to cause a fall-out amongst us - cos I see that looming not too far away .

muzza the last thing i would like to do is upset anybody. just letting my opinion and thoughts to the original question posted by gryphon be known.

happy to call a truce, as I have said my bit.

quote:

Originally posted by duggaboybuff:
CB radios are legall for saftey reasons.

Too true, but they are not supposed to be used to co-ordinate hunting efforts, ie hound teams.

Once again, it comes back to ethics.

Unless anyone has something else to add, we could probably bury this thread in the 'pointless semantics' file.
JMHO.