With this upcoming election, I'm getting sick of all the bullshit associated with it. Evrywhere you go you see " fighting for you" or "fighting for " blah,blah,blah. Every time you see them on television, they're argueing like schoolkids and pointing the blame the other way.
Does anybody know a politician thats NOT fighting or argueing his way through their carreer?? He may get my vote.Personally, I'm sick of paying these politicians to act like they were when they were preschool age.

So fire them! derf

Trev,

That sort of activity is pretty normal in the cities mate.



If you'll indulge me on your thread I'll tell you about a security course I just did.

The course was from a mixed background of ex police, army, civilian, recent school leavers, and different races etc.



The instructor spent the first 4 hours telling us about his failed footy career, marriage break up and custody battle for his 8 year old son.



He then went on to explain he knew of someone who bought a nuclear submarine in Arizona( ?) and suspected it may be somehwere in Sydney harbour. Also said his house was sold to him by the mafia, was invited on drug raids with the NYPD when he went on holidays in the US, told us the Brisbane city council risked explosions which could blow everyone's toilets up due to some gas tank they had installed near his house, new of a gang of kids that inject drugs into their pupils instead of their veins, and to leave the gang meant you had to leave one of your eyes full of drugs with the gang. He confided he knew of a guy who knew where the collection of eyes was. He also gave a lesson on how to cut drugs and kill your wife by freezing her and using a woodchip maker.





Would you beleive this was not the strangest thing?



The strangest thing was the other course members were too busy embroiled in a power struggle with one another to notice. Everyone's life story was out in the first ten minutes and anytime a lesson breaked for morning tea or lunch everyone picked where they left off trying to outdo one another with stories, anecdotes and arguments.Naturally I rose to the top here but in all seriousness the heat coming off everyone was intense. There were elbows thrown at one stage and a fat lip or two. Over nothing at all really.





Myself and one other army guy sat there like we had just walked into one of the Beatles pschodelic cartoons.



Alongside that I'll probably watch the politicians just to relax.







Karl.

TrevofKal

Pick up any French politician. They never never fight, saying Amen to everybody, every syndicate, every leftist gang.. and spending our incomes more quickly than we earn them.
But about chest-thumping abroad, they are world-champions.

Karl, I know exactly what you're takling about.I work in the underground mining industry and as a result we have to undergo lengthly inductions at every minesite we go to. The first couple of hours are taken up with all the chest puffing and pissing contests and its usually the least experienced that indulge most. The older more experienced usually just sit on the sideline (except the old ratbags) and wait for their turn to speak. Anyway all sorts of personalities surface and most are easy to see through.
I'm on quite a good wage , doing what I do, and it shits me to tears to see the pollies carrying on like they do, getting paid the way they do. I'm on about 1/3 of what John Jackboot is on (wage wise, not the benefiets),but if I carried on like he did, I'd be replaced within hours. The same goes for all the pollies that I have seen.
In the end I suppose I'm just venting some frustration.
Thanks for listening!!

I hate all the politicions...none of them care about anyone but themselves and when there giving preferences to fuckwits like the greens I feel sick and no as a society where headed to the toilet.

Hear, Hear, PC! derf

I deleted my post cos I think it had to many naughty words in it..

Well at last I get to vote for someone decent, Bob Katter the biggest shit stirrer this side of the fence I don't think I would vote If all we had were the major parties up here.

Trev,

Always good to see Aussies venting frustration

What you describe is as old as humanity itself, a real pissing contest, and it lifts my heart to see by your post you consider it the height of bullshit, because it means non metro Australia is still Australia.



What I described was a complete detatchment from reality.I'm talking we've left neurosis behind and its time for the respiradone.I could have replaced these dickheads with a room full of Pentacostals in full flight and gained about the same level of information.





Karl.

"I hate all the politicions...none of them care about anyone but themselves and when there giving preferences to fuckwits like the greens I feel sick and no as a society where headed to the toilet."

PC,

You control where the preferences go, not the political parties.

Mike

Mike is right you do control who gets the preferance, thats why you get to number the boxes. As I understand it if your number 1 isn't going to win he can give preferances then your vote goes to number 2 on your card, and so on.

Is the shooters party running someone in the senate? I hope so. Thats the big bit of paper you get for the senate and is not local people so whatch out for shooters party member.
As I understand it everyone gets the same senate form, maybe wrong.

I think we shoot asassinate all not shooters party politicians and just get it over and done with, cos really, we aren't going to be happy until it happens...

PS
For those of you who are nitroexpress.com members, I am M82A1 but it appears someone has already used my name on this forum...

Mike,

To be honest I am unsure of how it really all works....I still am not very impressed with any of the parties at any rate.

The Shooter's Party have been deregistered by the Electoral Commission and so cannot contest this election.

However, the Outdoor Recreation Party are standing in some seats and all of their members of shooters, so that is where my vote will be going.

PC, that is probably because the major ones are all the same party these days.

Karl.

How come the shooters party have been de-listed

One scarey thing I have heard about is the national party siding with the greens in the policy of all guns to be stored at police stations or shooting club storage rooms. We would have to check them in after hunting or a trip to the range and then check them back out again when we want to work on them or use them. No more leaving them in your safe at home. I wonder how that would go down .

PC,

This is basically how it works in House of Representatives.

Let's say in your electorate there are candidates for Labor, Liberal, Greens, and One Nation.

Firstly, if any candidate gains over 50% "first prefence" or "primary" votes then he wins and preferences are not an issue. First Preference or Primary votes are the ones where you number 1

Preferences come into play when no candidate gets more than 50% in primary votes.

In the above example where Labor, Liberal, Greens, and One Nation are the candidates then The Greens and One Nation will probably get a small primary vote, perhaps a few percent of people will have voted as follows:

1 One Nation
2 Liberal
3 Labor
4 Greens

Or

1 Greens
2 labor
3 Liberal
4 One Nation

In the first example the primary vote for One Nation will be added to the Liberal vote and in the second example the primary vote will be added to the Labor vote.

While you determine where the preferences go the reality is that most people follow the parties How to Vote card and especially if voting Labor or Liberal.

The Senate is similar but more complicated.

Basically a candidate needs about 14% of the vote to gain a Senate seat. Any vote in excess of that flows to the next candidate.

Let's say that Liberal get 38% of the vote in Victoria. Then the Liberal candidate at the top of the Liberal ticket is elected and with 24% of the vote to spare. That is enough to elect the second Liberal on the ticket and with 10% left to spare. But 10% is not enough to elect the third Liberal and then the preferences between parties start to come into play.

By the way and no offence meant but your situation is why shooters are fucked and the Greens do so well with such limited support. Their supporters know how to vote.

At the last NSW election The Shooters Party got approximately 15% of the shooters vote. Actually it would be less than that as many wives would have also voted Shooter's party. The really bad feature of tthis result is that tells both Labor and Liberal that shooters love to vote for the parties than ban guns and bring in gun laws and hate to vote for their own party of support.

To make matters worse the 15% vote for the shooters party is based on the number of licenced shooters which by definition are keener than the shooters who have not licenced or registered the old 303 under the bed.

But it gets worse!!!! At the last NSW election two other shooting based parties ran in addition to The Shooters Party. All three parties had a How to Vote that put the other shooting parties last and that was deadly since 98% of people follow the How to Vote car for the Upper House election.

If the shooters had actually voted for the Shooters Party or one of the other two parties and had the other shooting parties listed as second preference we probably have at least 3 people from shooting parties in the NSW Upper House.

In summary, that is why the greens do so well with such limited support and why the shooters are such a fuck up.

Mike

Mike
Who are the other shooting parties? I was only aware of the shooters party. I take it they are not linked with the SSAA?

Thanks Mike for the run-down......pretty ignorant arn't I

Post deleted by mix3006

CR 500 ,That is scary !!! and iam sure thats what they want.The U.N does have plans to ban the private ownership of firearms and religion ,most people would not care if they ban both, as most people dont have either,and dont care about either .I read ,that they think the average person ,has TOO MANY RIGHTS !!!! and this has to change in the interests of world peace etc .I can just imagine it ,''oh the armoury or police station just happened to burn down last night, with all you guns in it ,too bad, and we wont let you buy anymore, because we just changed the laws ''AGAIN '' .hhhhhhhmmmmmmm its a scary future that awaits us ,and they all expect us to condone it by voting for THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

Bakes,

Just to make them feel weak.....phone Horsley Park Gun Shop and ask them.

But none of it would be an issue if the shooter knew how to vote. PC is the living and breathing example of why we have a problem and why the greenies the influence.

Go back and check PC's posting. He is basically wearing a a badge of honour on "I don't understand how it works" and of course most shooters are the same.

Ring Dave Billinghurst at Herrons and say Mike McGuire said to call you. But only call if you are interested in becoming involved. Or you can call me on (02) 95921507

Mike

PC,
Don't feel too bad, wisdom comes with time and there are obviously some dinosaurs around with long memories and lots of wisdom. Seriously though, picking the correct candidate to vote for is never easy and having some knowledge of the system takes time and effort, and time unfortunately is a commodity becoming increasingly rare.
Cheers...
Con

Mike,
No flames intended but can I ask you a question regarding this statement below:

"The really bad feature of this result is that tells both Labor and Liberal that shooters love to vote for the parties than ban guns and bring in gun laws and hate to vote for their own party of support."

In the whole scheme of things were do you value isues surrounding the ownership and use a firearm in relation to health, education etc...? When your youngish and planning to have a family in the near future, guns don't come that high up the scheme of things... so why vote for a Shooter's Party? Wouldn't it be more effective to have a strong lobby group with some clout at the State and Federal levels rather than divisive, competing recreational users groups all competing for a Senate (I assume) seat?
Cheers...
Con

Con,

Our Preferential voting system allows you to vote for parties such as The Shooters Part while giving giving your preference to Liberal or Labor as the case might be. Sometimes parties like the Democrats have two How tO Vote cards....one for Liberal voters and one for Labor voters.

Let's say just as an example your choice is Liberal then there are two ways to vote. We will also assume that in your electorate the candidates are Liberal, Labor, Guns Forever , Don't Ban Boxing Party, Greens, Transexual Party.

One way you might vote could be:

1 Liberal
2 Guns Forever
3 Don't Ban Boxing
4 Greens
5 Transexual Party

Another way could be:

1 Guns Forever
2 Don't Ban Boxing
3 Liberal
4 Greens
5 Transexual Party

In the House of Representatives you have effectively voted Liberal in both examples. However, example two is better for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you registered that you will vote for Guns Forever. Secondly, if Guns Forever gets 4% of the vote across Australian then they get $1.94 for each vote.

The situation for the Senate is similar except bfor two main differences. Firstly the allocation of preferences is more complicated. Secondly and far more important only 14% of the vote is required to win a Senate seat. If preferences have been allocated properly then a party getting perhaps 8% of the primary vote might win a Senate seat.

Now lets go one step further and say the imaginary party of Guns Forever wins a couple of seats in the Senate and we will also assume that Liberal win the election, that is Liberal wins the House of Representaives vote across Australia.

If Guns Forever has won a couple of seats in the Senate then they can "negotiate" with the gov't when it comes to passing gov't legislation through the Senate. Such negotiation will of course centre around Guns Forever getting something favourable in exchange for supporting gov't legislation.

But if you vote this way:

1 Liberal
2 Guns Forever
3 Don't Ban Boxing
4 Greens
5 Transexual Party

Then Guns Forever gets nothing and you have told the two major parties that you will not vote for a shooters based party or some similar type of party.

Basically, the above is why the greenie type people have so much influence. Also, that 8% of primary vote they get will perhaps give the Greens a couple of million dollars in fucnding via the $1.94 per vote.

Lastlly, let's say Liberal is your choice and that Liberal win the election.

Would you prefer Liberal having to negotiate with The Greens in the Senate of a party or parties such as gun type party or Sprintcars Forever

Hope that is of help.

Mike

Mike375 thanks for posting that very usefull information.

Doc1972.

Mike,
Sweet, now I see where your coming from. In a nutshell, what I'm getting is that voting for/on a local issue CAN make a difference on the Federal scene. Likewise voting for a "Shooter's Party" in the Senate at worst is a glitch/inconvenience for the major two, but if 4+% is reached it funds furthur political action and then if 14% is reached it gives us a voice.
Cheers, some knowledge has been gained!
Con

As with all elections, a politian will always stand up for what they think the voters will fall for!

I am amazed at the "goodie chest". One minute we can''t have money for hospitals or elderly, next both sides have an extra $8 billion to waste.

Did anyone read the time/life article about 2-3months ago wher it was stated that the Feds are collecting $61.3 billion more tax dollars under GST than under the old sales tax, wholesale and so called hidden taxes schemes. That is $61,300,000,000 per year!

That article also stated that we, as individuals, used to contribute 56.8c in every dollar that we earn pre GST and now the figure is 63.2c/dollar. ( i.e. 30c/$ income tax + 10% GST on the rest that we spend as comsumers)

This election shouldn't be about "saving families" or "stable government" but about getting rid of the money wasters that are sending this bloody country down the tubes!

Thanks for the infromation. I always put the shooters party first...if there oin the sheet but I do not remember seeing them for ages.

Oh well, we've got gun grabber Johnny for several more years instead of the bovver boy "in the national interest" Latham. Not much of a choice I think.

Anyone see the SSAA reply from Latham on questions regarding his firearms policy? Irrelevant any way now.

Nitro
Latham's opinion on firearm's policy did'nt matter jack shit, it's the party policy that matters. when it comes to the vote they will vote along party lines if they know what's good for them, and there superanuation package. They may reduce that package if they vote again'st party lines and possibly end up running as an independent. Not to many labor pollys could manage without the party's help.

darwinmauser

Latham's standard answer was to do whatever was in the "national interest" ie no answer at all and no alternative.