Um, for the rest of us, whats "1080"?

Toolmaker

1080 is Sodium Monofluoroacetate used here to control(kill) Deer, Rabbits, possums, rats and anything else that eats it.
I think we are the only stupid F$%kers that still use it in the world
Clean green NZ

Milosmate

I did a quick search and it appears to be one nasty chemical. Most of the links had .NZ or .AU extentions, but there was one thing that caught my eye: an article about shutting down Tull Chemical in Alabama, the last producer in the US of 1080. Apparently it is/was used here, just not as liberally as it was used in Kiwiland. Then again we don't have the problems you do with introduced animals(introduced plants are another story)

Toolmaker

TM ( and other )1080 poison or sodium monoflouracetate is a fine white powder with a slight odour and taste , and is highly water soluble. The flouracetate active ingredient is chemically identical to the naturally occurring flouracetate found in poisonous plants in Brazil , South and West Africa and Australia - in particular Western Australia where at least 40 plant species produce flouracetate. Plants with high concentrations are potentially hazardous if eaten in sufficient quantity.

1080 poison is used in NZ ( and Australia and the USA and Mexico and Israel ) . here we use it for the control of invertebrate pests ie those with a backbone so animals as opposed to insects. It is only available for use by licensed operators , and the only operators licensed to use it here are Regional Councils and the Department of Conservation . Other contractors employed by those bodies may use the product , but only under the control of those bodies .

The poison was first used in NZ and Australia in the mid 1950's for rabbit control , the Australians have used it as a critical component in pest control programmes for rabbits , foxes , wild dogs and feral pigs . Since 1994 , use in Western Australia has seen such a reduction in foxes in some areas that three native mammal species previously on the endangered species list have recovered to a point were they have been removed from the at risk list .

In NZ the product is used extensively for control of the Australian Brush Tailed Possum ( which is no relation of that scrawny thing you Americans call a possum )an introduced marsupial fur-bearing nocturnal carrier and spreader of Bovine Tuberculosis. Bovine TB is the scourge of NZs export meat industry , but since the mid 1970's infection levels have been reduced to a fraction of the original , and now only 0.4% of cattle and 1.4% of deer herds are stil infected .

Bovine Tuberculosis is very closely related to Human TB and can cross species to humans , however with the compulsory pastuerisation of milk and disease eradication measures the cross infection possibility is virtually nil , But , we have a huge possum population and the TB infected possum population is estimated to cover 38% of NZ . Since possums are nocturnal they dont appear to be about in big numbers , but only cos we dont see them in daylight .

Apologies if this rambles on a bit but you asked ...

Different animals have different sensitivity to 1080 , however the basic mode of operation is the same in all species .1080 interupts the "Krebs cycle " which is the complex metabolic manner in which food is broken down to provide energy for the bodies cells. once the energy reserves are depleted , death occurrs fairly quickly from heart or respiratory failure. In possums , the become lethargic and die in 6-18 hours , usually from cardiac failure . This is the same mode of death in other herbivores as well .

In carnivores - ie Milo the Mutt - they experience central nervous system disturbances and convulsions as their energy supplies run out , then die of respiratory failure. Animals that get a sub-lethal dose of 1080 show mild signs of poisoning , but the 1080 is metabolised and excreted within one to four days and the animal recovers . Any trace of 1080 is likely to be eliminated in about a week in the body .

The real problem is the differing sensitivity to the poison .Body mass has an important part in this , although not always in the same way . Bigger animals would be expected to need to eat bigger amounts than smaller animals , but body metabolism is probably the most important issue . The one thing that causes concern as in Milos case is that dogs are at the top of the susceptability list. Toxicoligy is rated in "Lethal Dose50" terms . This is an index that rates the dose of 1080 in milligrammes per kilogram of bodyweight ( mg/kgbw )which will theoretically kill 50% of a population of test subjects under specific conditions. Some example of the toxicity of 1080 by LD50 are -

Dogs LD50 (mg/kgbw) 0.06
cat 0.3 -0.5
rabbit 0.35
sheep 0.25 -0.64
cattle 0.4
deer 0.5
goat o.3 -0.7
feral pig 0.4 -1.0
norway rat 0.2 - 3.0
possum 0.8
ferret 1.4
mallard duck 7.1
australian magpie 9.93
South African clawed toad 500+

So we can see that herbivores are susceptable , but dogs are real susceptable .

Most dog poisoning occurrs as per Milos case where the dog finds a dead possum or rat and eats it , invariably starting with the guts. This secondary poisoning is an important tool in eradicating feral cats in areas that are poisoned for possum control . The cats eat the dead possum and die .

In NZ we apply 1080 poison either from the air - by helicopter , or ground apply the stuff by hand . much lower rates of chemical application are used now than in the past , and much research has gone into finding bait types that are target specific . Diced carrot is a favourite for aerial application , but now the carrot is dyed green to be much less attractive to birds. Compressed pollard baits are also green , but have a additive that is a flavour that repells birds . Plus with gps in aircraft the accuracy of the drops has greatly improved , and very strict performance contracts for those applying the poison make it less likely that there will be mishaps - didnt say there werent , just less likely .

As a matter of interest , in the USA 1080 is used in collars fitted to sheep and goats in coyote country to poison coyotes when they attack the throats of other animals .

New Zealand is the largest user of 1080 poison in the world , we account for about 80% of the world production - last year some 2.3 tonnes of the pure powder . Thats all , 2.3 tonnes. It is made in a backyard factory in a small city in the USA , a family industry for several generations .

Why do we use so much ? New Zealand has no native mammals except for two species of bat . No mammals . Most other countries have mammalian animals that have natural predators in the wild . Our forebears in their wisdom introduced rabbits and possum , which then thrived to plague proportions due to no competition. 1080 poison is currently the most cost effective means of controlling pests in our forests . I dont have any fears about the safety of it in use , but I also dont beleive that poisons are the ideal means to an end , but until something better comes along , I am a supporter of the use of 1080 in controlled conditions .Particularly in light of the predation on nesting birds that possums are now proved to do .

As an aside to all that ramble above , one of the good aspects of 1080 is that it readily washes out of the bait used to become natural flouride and acetone in the environment , both of which are elements that are deficient in most places in NZ. It takes about an inch of rain to wash the poison out .

Most of the above information is from a discussion document in curent circulation as part of a review of NZs use of 1080 poison, unfortunately it was a bit too technical to post verbatim so I have deciphered it somewhat . Hope that answers some of the questions about 1080 poison , if not throw some more at me and I will try to answer them . Not getting into the emotive anti poisoning /hunting issue tho.....

They're trying to shut down Tull mainly due to Homeland Security and not for "green" reasons(Note: the website is dedicated to "saving the wolves" and other such nonsense). It apparently makes a dandy chemical weapon and is only used in the US for the afor mentioned sheep collars. Here's the web page. Unfortunatly, this won't affect your part of the world because the stuff you use is homegrown and not from Tull...

Toolmaker

The trouble is Muzza, is that there are alternatives which are just as effective but not as cost effective.
So we keep using it,I hope that Toolmaker is right and that TULL Chemicals does get shut down.

Milosmate

TM , our 1080 is imported from the US , so this may well be the source .

MM - I dont disagree that there are other products that will do the job , but since cost is the driving force in any pest control operation 1080 will continue to be the chemical of choice on larger scale operations . Plus the terrain in many areas doesnt allow foot access so aerial drops are the only cost effective option . The whole deal revolves around cost.

Since your 1080 comes from the USA and Tull is the only manufacturer in the entire country.. This could have serious repercussions for your nuisiance wildlife control program. Typical. they take a versatile tool and remove it from competatant hands. DDT is another case, only it was vilified due to gross misuse of it. A number of African Aid charities want to use DDT in hand held spot sprayers to spray huts for mosquitos. But the US bans it's manufacture. Why? Because in the 50's and 60's they used tons where ounces would do and then discovered it had enviornmental repurcussions. So rather than apply it in sane amounts, they decide to ban it altogether. So we're stuck with nasty inferior poisons that we have to use more of because it doesn't do as good a job as DDT. Bueracrats!

Toolmaker

I'm getting ready for a Sambar hunt but it's warm balmy weather! Trying to figure out whether to take the 375H&H or the 8mm Rem Mag and reloading for both just in case.
Cheers...
Con

im getting ready for goose hunting trip to scotland

Muzza you can not be that bored . Well I'm doing some local legal work for some farmers (old friends) looks like the farmers and myself will be doing some legal action "court battle" get the blood pumpin

The Bison and Moose are at the processers and Quail starts in a couple of weeks. Other than that,WORKING my backside off trying to get caught up for time off in Quail season. derf

Jeez , BAW is housemoving , Bakes has gone to ground ,the fatboy with the double rifle has gone to the Territory to kill things - isnt anyone else doing anything out there , aside from that damn kiwi Milosmate who is hellbent on stirring sh*t with everyone ( good on ya mate , keep it up )...



There has to be someone doing something worthy of comment , even if it is something totally stupid ( hell , most of you are aussies , why did I have to say that...).



I feel boredom setting in here people.....looks like the highlight of the week is changing my avatar....

So , all is revealed - we are all "getting ready ".

Ive been getting ready for years , just not too sure what to specialise in , unlike Far Canel polishing .222 Rimmed brass doesnt seem like a lifetimes pursuit to me...

Not much happening in this part of NZ , weather is total crap , but thats normal for springtime , fishing season is due to start in a couple of weeks , cant access many goats to kill cos Mr Farmers sheep are having babies and dont like to be disturbed ( you Aussies would know all about disturbed sheep )and I need to fix my martini with the firing pin problem .

And where is Bakes , does anyone know ....

Doing it tough as usually, suckin piss and getting me stuff ready for a Sambar hunt next week...Les

I'm still here mate,polishing all my .222Rimmed cases.

Thanks Far Canel,
That slug bait is real nasty stuff, the vet said its one poison that stays in the system unless the anidote is administered.
The big problem is that you have to know what the dog ingested.

Milosmate

In the spirit of ANZAC we all give poor old Milo a "get well soon".
Poor bugger,lost our dog to a suspected snakebite many years ago.In those days it was get well or die,a slow lingering death for a day and a half.(Foxie)
Seven years ago my father's Blue Heeler pup got into the slug bait.Found him under some bushes on his last gasp,raced him to the vet to no avail,$400 bill tho.
Stupid thing was the slug bait was never used,just kicking around the laundry for years.Dogs love it the vet said,like lollies.

Agree with Muzza ,cat are disposable.(I've had three beers,OK!)

Thanks for the support Muzza,the TV does not worry me just the fact that I have to throw money at it pisses me off.

Its quite possible the dog got into a non target animal that may have come down through the waterway to the reserve that I have been running him in for the past three years.

The vet also thought that the dog may have a shunt, which is when a dog eats food the intestines produce ammonia which gets turned into protein in the liver, but some dogs are born with a shunt which can bypass the liver and go into the blood steam which gives the same symptoms as poison.I dont think this is the case as he is three years old now but we will test for it when he gets stronger.

Milosmate

Sh*t mate , one of those Aussies must have cast a spell on ya for stirring them up ...!

You are lucky to have saved the pooch , if it was 1080 then he must have some cat blood ( 9 lives etc )cos dogs that get poisoned with 1080 die , finito , period , end of story. I hesitate to ask how he got poisoned , just hope he learns from it , and whilst your vet will be pleased to have saved his patient , the dollar cost is still pretty high - but the mutt is a family member . A cat is a renewable resource but a dog is part of the family.

I dont see the television blowing up as being of any great loss , actually it would improve the standard of entertainment in most peoples lives if they shot holes in their tvs once aweek every week ...

Hang in there mate , the kiwis at least are supporting you .

Let's see:

� Convinced they're trying to work me to death in the office -- 10 hours a day, a further 10 hours over the weekend. The boss thinks being able to edit 180 000 words a wekk is "about right".

� Racing down to Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital every second night to take Mum to see Dad -- he's just had 4 toes and half his foot taken off as a result of not looking after his diabetes.

� Making sure Mum's OK -- she's in a respite care centre after having been declared "incompetent" by a medical assessment team; that's after she fell out of the taxi visiting Dad -- and spent 4 days in the same hospital!

� Spending 70 hours over the past 2 or 3 weeks at Mum and Dad's while they're not there, cleaning, washing, ironing, scrubbing, vacuuming, painting and generally getting the house back to the stage where a cleaning lady once a week can keep it under control.

� Organising Mercy Aged Care nurses twice a day to look after medications, bathing, dressing, serving meals etc.

� Organising Meals on Wheels.

Apart from that, my time's almost been my own �

Bruce

He did alright, the news ran some storys that were pure crap, but what else do you expect from them.

Well I have had a shit of a week.
The bloody tele blew up, my dog Milo some how got poisoned and has been on deaths door for 5 days now and after $1200 of vet bills he's going to make it.
The vet had written him off.
Had symptoms of 1080 which would bring a tear to any mans eye.
Buts he's going to make it which is the main thing!

Milosmate

I'm waiting till it's out on DVD.

Muzza,

We have been hunting in darkest Africa, so if you are bored, you might wish to have a look at this.

Hunting in Tanzania 2004

Seen that on the news,Yank was lucky to get away with it.

Well its nice to see someone missed me . Went to Darwin on Saturday to put the family on a plane. Got home Sunday and had drinks with Nitro and his lovely wife and for the last 3 days I've been out bush guarding a crash site.