We shoot a 400yard VFS match at our club.....

And I have a new Krieger 6.5 8 twist LV contour barrel....

Wonder what you fellas would think (and why) would be the best chambering for the best consistent accuracy?

i have reamers in 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmore and 260AI. I wouldn't be adverse to other cartridges though...

I have a couple 6.5X47L, but am told the 6.5 Creedmore is not as temperamental as the other 6.5 rounds. I like mine, but they are hunting rifles. The 6.5SAUM is intriguing.

Thank you sir.

I have already got a 700 short action 308 bolt face for the build......we have to use a typical commercial action with a magazine.......so for me the Saum/ WSM is out.

I saw that lapua is supposed to make creedmoore brass in the near future, so that is a good thing and kinda levels the field.

I shoot a .260 Remington. It is pedestrian, easy to load, and nuts on. It has a Schiender P5 barrel. It likes 140s in the 2700fps range.

What kind of 400 yard groups are you getting?

Years ago, I had a 1,000 yard benchrest rifle in 6.5 Gibbs. I once put 10 shots into 6.8 inches at 1,022 yards. The Original Pennsylvania 1,000 Yard Benchrest Club in Williamsport. It is a darn fine cartridge. Another guy there had one and was shooting bowling balls at 1400 yards. 400 should be no sweat.

Short action......but thanks.

.

Jim, leaning toward any particular flavor of barrel? For what it is worth, I shot some casual varmint matches at 600 yards some years back and the guy who won every one of them was running a Pac-Nor Super match chambered in 6 BR and screwed into a blue-printed Model 700 action with Jewell Trigger. Work was done by Kevin Wyatt of Wyatt's Outdoor in Medford, OR.
It got to be no fun shooting against Mr. 6 BR as he had great equipment and an uncanny knack for reading wind and mirage. He was a Huey door gunner in Vietnam, and had AK bullet scars on his right forearm and forehead. Sandy Young, God rest your restless soul.

Bill, I already have a Krieger 8twist in .264, light varmint contour.

I do have a fast twist 6BR and it is a pacnor, go figger, its on a savage though.....no jewel for that one.

I just want something a little bigger, that makes a bigger hole.....and is different...I am leaning toward the 260AI, 140g at 2900, seems to me like a winner....

I'm gonna do all the work on this one myself, I been putting together some pretty neat stuff lately.
.

That's a heck of a barrel you have for your project. Bet it will shoot lights out!

I'm hoping.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Jim, leaning toward any particular flavor of barrel? For what it is worth, I shot some casual varmint matches at 600 yards some years back and the guy who won every one of them was running a Pac-Nor Super match chambered in 6 BR and screwed into a blue-printed Model 700 action with Jewell Trigger. Work was done by Kevin Wyatt of Wyatt's Outdoor in Medford, OR.
It got to be no fun shooting against Mr. 6 BR as he had great equipment and an uncanny knack for reading wind and mirage. He was a Huey door gunner in Vietnam, and had AK bullet scars on his right forearm and forehead. Sandy Young, God rest your restless soul.

Sandy used to own a run a gun shop in Jacksonville. Kevin is a great guy who once spent an hour making me an extractor for M-70 Classic in 338-300 RUM that had one of his magazine boxes. He wouldn't take anything for his work.

JTEX,

400 yds is not long range at all. Even a .223 would be very competitive at that distance. I would also look hard at a 6BR or a 6 PPC. If it had to be a 6.5 I'd go with a 260 Rem.

We are talking about a bit of a difference in accuracy INTJ......

At 400 yards the 10 ring is 1" and the Bull is 1/8" of an inch. This isn't F-class or practical rifle, it's a bit more like 100 yard bench rest gone farther.

We have people that frequently shoot 100's at 400 yards, with the winner determined by X's.

400 yards is a damned long way to consistently hit a 1" target, that's 1/4 MOA......

The size of the X-ring and bull doesn't change my recommendation. 6 Dasher or 6 PPC. What are guys who routinely win shooting?

Mostly 6.5 something's......6.5x47, creedmoor and a couple others I believe......

PPC runs out of gas at around 300 yrs, the dasher is a good choice, but a 6mm....

What others where using is kinda what I was trying to find out.

The PPC is running out of gas because of the little bullets they use in little BR.

If I were going to build a rifle for a high accuracy 400 yd game, I would optimize it for 400 yds. I would start with what is working well at 600 yd BR (the Dasher), and then tweak it for 400 yds. Not as much BC is needed at 400 yds va 600, and lower BC bullets usually have better raw accuracy.

I would guess a BC in the .350 to .400 range would work well and the I'd find the slowest twist that would stabilize such a bullet.

I would also look for a lesser capacity case than the Dasher, since it is not hard to keep a .350 to .400 BC bullet supersonic at 400 yds.

I am wondering if a 6x45 might not work great at 400 yds. The 6x47 and 6.5 x 47 would also work great.

The idea is to use the minimum case capacity and lowest BC bullet, and slowest twist that will stay stable and supersonic to 400 yds in all the conditions you may have to shoot. And I think an optimum 400 yd BR gun would be stretched to be competitive at 600 yds.

FWIW.............

Now that Lapua is making brass for the 6.5 Creedmoor that would be my choice.

Jim, is your range known for squirrely winds? That might be where the 6.5s gain an advantage over the 6mms. Your 400-yard match sounds like a heck of a lot of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Jim, is your range known for squirrely winds? That might be where the 6.5s gain an advantage over the 6mms. Your 400-yard match sounds like a heck of a lot of fun.

I too thought that higher BC bullets would be an advantage in squirrelly winds until I started shooting 1K BR. It didn't seem to matter if it was a .650 BC 30 cal bullet or a .500 BC 6mm cal bullet. The wind would shift somewhere along the 1000 yds and EVERYONES bullets would drift a foot left. The couple inches less drift of the high BC bullets really didn't make much difference. It was always the gun that shot the best groups that one.

At 400 yds BC is even less critical. Note, this applied to target shooting ONLY. Long range hunting does indeed require ultra high BC bullets, even if they don't group quite as well.

Your mileage may vary........

Thanks for all the input fellas.

Yep, Bill, we shoot several matches 100, 200 and 400 yard varmint for score. We also do the same ranges with as issued battle rifles and we do 50yard open 22lr benchrest. We rotate the distances monthly and shoot the 22 match concurrent with the 100 and 200 yard matches.

Its just a bragging rights sorta thing.......

I built myself a 30 br that I've been using in the 1and 200 yard matches and have been doing real well......But it just doesn't hold together at 400....... have used a 6br and 260AI at 400 and done good.......just not good enough to win, a bunch of seconds and thirds.......

I shoot an 03A3 in the rattle battle and do good there, also a kimber 82g in the 22.

I'm just tired of the "old dudes" kicking my butt at 400 ........and want to build something new.

I have had both the 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

The logistics for the 6.5 Creedmoor make the other one a more difficult choice.

So easy to get 6.5 Creedmoor anything.

And factory CM ammo shoots

Jim, I wish I had a gun club like yours. That's just a whole lot of fun shooting -- and as-issued military matches to boot. Doesn't get a whole lot better than that in my book.
Many years ago I was an observer at a match that I think back on even today Trapdoor Springfields at 200 yards, black powder and lead only. It was almost a patriotic /religious experience to see maybe 30 Trapdoors on the line, all blowing smoke rings in the still morning air.
This was the warm up match for a BPCR match at 600, 700, 800 and 900. First time I got to meet Dave Gullo, of Buffalo Arms. Really nice guy, shooting a Hepburn in those days.

We do have a good time Bill, we have a lot of really great members and some great shooters as well. You can learn a bunch and have fun with guns!

There's a group of "Old guys" ( I say that with tongue firmly in cheek) that are retired and shoot almost daily that I gotta keep up with....... I can get them pretty regularly on 100and 200, but I don't get to practice enough at 400. Sooooooo.....I am gonna make up for my lack of practice with better gear. I know, that never works

But I have fun and I have been wanting to do another rifle for me. I have a stainless 700 short action to blueprint, the Krieger barrel and just got in a laminated bench rest stock. Gonna try and get it together this weekend. I'm pumped.

Decided to stick with the 260AI, already got the Redding three dies set, plenty of Lapua 260 brass and a good reamer. It ought do the 140s pretty close to 3000fps.

We will see......

.

Betcha that dog will hunt!

Bill,

Sherwood has a range to 600 yds and Douglas Ridge goes to 1000. They both have several styles of competition. I plan to start competing if and when I move to the Eugene area this year.

Intj, the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club hopes to build a 1,000-yard range in the next year or two. I haven't been to Douglas Ridge in 20 years or more. Beautiful range!

Cool! Albany will be close!

Kind of late to this topic, and the .260 AI is a fine choice, but for your purposes, I'd just stick with the plain .260 and not have to fire form which burns up barrel life. I don't think the 100 fps or less difference at the muzzle with 139s or 140s is going to translate into any real world score differences at 400. It's possible that lower velocity and less recoil might actually be better or maybe not? JMHO. Shoot well.

You'll have longer barrel life and more velocity with a 6.5x55......just saying.

Got it put together!




Went with the 260AI. Did breakin and fireformed 40 pieces of Lapua brass over the weekend with promising groups. Gonna start load develpment. New rifles are exciting!

.

Sweet!!

Thanks. I hardly ever get to put one together for myself.

Looking good, Jim, and in that chambering if you want to reach out to 1,000, you very likely can. That kind of flexibility is nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Looking good, Jim, and in that chambering if you want to reach out to 1,000, you very likely can. That kind of flexibility is nice.

Thank you Sir.
I really wish I had a place I could shoot to a thousand regularly....... I have two 338 Edges and a Lapua that really shine way out there. My home range has a 600 yard maximum.

Come out here sometime Jim. Bill and I can take you to Douglas Ridge for a 1000 yd range......or just out in the woods.

You'd feel at home in my house. My wife is a Texas lady born in Dallas.....

I'd love to sometime. I think I'd feel right at home with both of you good fellas!

Why don't you use a PPC, BR or Dasher ! They are more than accurate enough for 400 yards and will more than likely out shoot either of the Lapuas. I use a Dasher no turn at Ridgeway's VBR at 850,900,950 and 1000 yards with no problem and it's easier on the shoulder/wallet than the 6.5's especially when your shooting 60-80 shots per match. I was the range master for 10 years at one of the long range groundhog matches and got to see every cartridge and combination you could imagine shoot at 200-300-500 yards and the BR fast twist overall was the best in all conditions, the little PPC can compete and I won plenty of matches with mine, but the wind at 500 can cause some issues.but a one inch dot especially if you only have to touch the edge would be no problem for a BR or Dasher at 400..... And you thought liberals weren't gun enthusiasts !

The 264 Win. Mag. is a good choice.

Hunting and Competitive shooting are two different animals, the only thing they have in common is "bang"... The .264 win mag is a great hunting cartridge but would be slaughtered in competitive shooting, wouldn't even be close.... In 35 years of match shooting I've never seen a single one in use in any type of match from 100-1000 yards and in any format, that should tell you something...

I stand corrected. You are right,it is a fine hunting calibre. In P.O. Ackleys opinion it ranks somewhat up there with bore to case capacity with the 7x57 + 257 Roberts AI's.

JTEX, How much does it weigh? I am putting something together that is similar but I have a 10 pound limit.