Those that truly shoot in competition know a barrel is an expendable item, they don't last for ever. Over the past several years, stainless barrels won't last much past 500 rounds before things start to happen. The two most popular and used barrels, Bartlein and Kreiger, both have this issue. I recently bought a new Kreiger from Bruno, chambered it, and shot it about 75 rounds before taking it to the group nationals. I shot this gun for LV, SP and HV. By the time is started the last day of shooting, single match, I changed guns after two targets. IT started to foul and wouldn't group. Took a long time to get a non- blue patch out of it. Got home and looked with the bore scope. I can see dark grey streaks along the edges of the lands for a couple inches in front of the chamber. I'm not talking fire cracking, I'm seeing grey discoloration of the steel. I had a similar thing happen earlier this year from a barrel that had only a few matches on it. Took it to a LV HV match, and by the time I finished it was fouling bad, just like this one.

I can't afford $330 barrels that won't shoot several matches. What's the deal here? How can we be getting such poor steel. This seems to be an ongoing issue, in the past the steel varied a lot.

go back to chrome-moly...

Possible answer is that sometime ago Douglas was getting inferior stainless steel blanks and took a while to get that sorted out I was told.
The barrel makers you mention are known for quality and would suggest contacting them regarding your experience, they may make you a deal on a replacement?? Just a suggestion.

Instructor, I've heard the same thing that Douglas buys a more expensive stainless that perhaps others. Regardless, unless a maker has an admitted problem with the steel, why would they replace it. A friend recently bought the new Lyman bore scope and downloaded pics of his fairly new bore with it. He sent me the pics, just what I saw in mine. He sent the pics to his barrel guy, a fellow that worked for one of the affor mentioned makers and is now making his own, and he said it was the steel and nothing he could do about it. And so people know, I'm not shooting an over bore cartridge, a 6PPC is hardly over bore.

I wonder about the chemistry of the steel. Cr-Mo is 4140 but there is a free machining grade containing higher sulfur. Stainless is 416 , a free machining grade of 410.But 416 has no upper limit for the sulfur which has always been a mystery tome . However 416R of Crucible does have a sensible upper limit. I wonder if the bullet is reacting with the high sulfur in these barrels ? Copper sulfide is black. Just asking .

What type of bullets are you using?

Not a bad idea to do a full clean on it with whatever method you like.

I know it's taboo...but when I have a barrel that's giving me issues, I will soak it overnight in Hoppes # 9, brush with a wet brush, patch dry, and inspect.

From there, based on the scope, carbon cutter...looking for that carbon ring in front of the chamber.

If that comes out clean, dry the bore...do a harsh copper solvent and look for copper fouling.

Once we are sure that's gone...scope again.

If I see anything at all...JB on a patch wet with Hoppes, full length strokes that stop just at exit.

After the JB, full clean with Hoppes, then fully dry bore and inspect. All the JB must come out.


At that point, the barrel is as clean as it can get. You can see whatever it is.

I'm always suprised how much stuff I can get out of a "Clean" barrel with some carbon cutter.

YMMV

I haven't heard of your problem from my BR buddies. They use the same barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I haven't heard of your problem from my BR buddies. They use the same barrels.

I don't believe BR shooters keep their barrels for very long.Their competitive life is very short.I was told that the military does not use stainless steel for this reason.I have also heard that LW steel is the hardest steel that can be button rifled and that Heym steel could not be button rifled only Hammer forged.Also that there is a lot of bullshit on the net-the "net of lies".Most of the BS is from industry people flooding the forums."stainless is only good for cutlery" I also heard of a new steel coming from France that is supposed to be harder and better than anything out there.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I haven't heard of your problem from my BR buddies. They use the same barrels.

I don't believe BR shooters keep their barrels for very long.Their competitive life is very short.I was told that the military does not use stainless steel for this reason.I have also heard that LW steel is the hardest steel that can be button rifled and that Heym steel could not be button rifled only Hammer forged.Also that there is a lot of bullshit on the net-the "net of lies".Most of the BS is from industry people flooding the forums."stainless is only good for cutlery" I also heard of a new steel coming from France that is supposed to be harder and better than anything out there.

I believe the LW50 barrels are made with a precipitation hardened SS.t ain't easy to chamber and does last.I don't beieve I've seen one in the competitive arena.
I don't think their CM barrels are any different than others.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I haven't heard of your problem from my BR buddies. They use the same barrels.

I don't believe BR shooters keep their barrels for very long.Their competitive life is very short.I was told that the military does not use stainless steel for this reason.I have also heard that LW steel is the hardest steel that can be button rifled and that Heym steel could not be button rifled only Hammer forged.Also that there is a lot of bullshit on the net-the "net of lies".Most of the BS is from industry people flooding the forums."stainless is only good for cutlery" I also heard of a new steel coming from France that is supposed to be harder and better than anything out there.

I believe the LW50 barrels are made with a precipitation hardened SS.t ain't easy to chamber and does last.I don't beieve I've seen one in the competitive arena.
I don't think their CM barrels are any different than others.

I am not sure.If I go on their website I see they call there chrome moly "special barrel steel"

They use marketing BS like the rest, huh!

quote:

I am not sure.If I go on their website I see they call there chrome moly "special barrel steel"

Where chrome-moly?

While to the layman a steel type is a
steel type. but there may be a number of quality differences . Crucible's stainless is not just 416 but 416R ,with better control of sulfur amounts. ' aircraft quality ' , 'bearing quality' all have their own standards yet be in the proper chemistry range !

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:

quote:

I am not sure.If I go on their website I see they call there chrome moly "special barrel steel"

Where chrome-moly?

Go on their site.Click on rifle blanks.Then click contoured barrels.Then ordering section.Then scroll down a bit.You will see that you can select either of their two types.1-special barrel steel.2-stainless steel.

Oh! I thought you said, "there chrome-moly".

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
Oh! I thought you said, "there chrome-moly".

Yes that is what I said.It must be a special chrome moly that they are referring to.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
Oh! I thought you said, "there chrome-moly".

Yes that is what I said.It must be a special chrome moly that they are referring to.

Probably 4140LW

I remember now seeing , back in the 1960s a pile of barrel blanks for military rifles .They were 41R40 -- R for resulfurized , high sulfur for machinability !

While I do believe the LW stainless was more resistant to heat and erosion than the average 416, it was also difficult to get as fine a finish, especially in the throat. According to the brochure, LW barrels were at the pinnacle of barrelmaking and one could be assured that they had the best when they bought LW. The stainless barrels I used were far from straight which made set-up more difficult. The Chromoly barrels were ordinary and one 7mm I owned fouled so badly that I finally pulled it off and replaced it with a Douglas which performed well. I once chambered a couple of Hechler&Koch blanks in 22BR. These blanks were polygon rifled and were hammer forged. These barrels were tough! This was noticeable when turning and threading the tenon and even more so when contouring. don't know how long they lasted but if difficulty in machining equates to long life, these would last a long time. have not used barrels from every maker but I have used barrels from well over a dozen and most have been more than satisfactory. The absolute worst barrel I ever saw was a Ferlach which was so inconsistent in dimension that it was like a snake swallowing a dozen eggs. I don't know from whom these were sourced but they should have been culled. Regards, Bill