I am looking at these two Leupold 30mm scopes for a bolt action 223 to use at 300-500 yards. Mostly it will be shot with my buddies at targets, a few coyotes and crows, and some informal club type shooting matches. And just plinking too.

The Leupold VX3 6.5 x 20 has the fine duplex style reticle and the target knobs and is about $900 new. It has the 50mm objective and side focus.

The Leupold Mark 4 LR/T has the Illumnated reticle and the TMR or Tactical Milling Reticle which is of course based of off mils, but has at least to me, a better and thinner evenly spaced hash marks. It has a 50mm objective and side focus with the M1 style knobs and sells for $1500 new. Both are 30mm tubes.

I would expect to dial in the shots when I can.

So some of my question is whether and how the VX3 compares to the MK4 in repeatablity of adjustments after you have spun the dials a few times?

I dont like too much clutter in the scope and the TMR is about all I could want to use. It does give you some options though for just holding over and/or holding off on windage and stil having a reference that the duplex does not have. For when you are shooting coyotes or crows or something and you may not have the time to dial in the clicks.

Do any of you use the TMR for this type of shooting and do you find the view cluttered?

I did not think I liked the Illuminated reticle, but I do in certain situations now that I have tried a couple. Any issues with this for any of you?

I would assume the MK 4 has been pretty well sorted out and its dials work better, but I have no experience with either to know.

I assume I could go to the 8.5 x 25 in either as well. I would prefer to stay with the Leupold for this type scope versus NightForce (even more costs) or Swarovski . I really like Swaro but not for this as it would really be more costs, and they do not have the adjustment range of the Leupolds.

Anybody using these Leupolds for this type of shooting?

Thank you for your inputs.

I shoot the MK4 scopes for a living. My experience is they are very repeatable. I've owned a lot of VariX-III but don't dial them so I can't say. I do know quite a few guys who shoot VX3 target scopes and love them.

The TMR is the least cluttered reticle that allows for good holds that I know of.

My only suggestion is that you could save money by shooting a lower magnification, non-illuminated reticle optic for the ranges and situations you described.

Thanks 7mm.

You know it is tough when you have not actually seen the scopes, looked through them, and have actual experience with them. If I got a bunch of bad replies that the adjustments foul up, or the reticle breaks etc then I would think about looking at something else.

I have to believe the MK4 has the most robust and repeatable adjustments as that is Leupolds LEO and SWAAT and military line. I will probably give that a go.

Thanks for your inputs.

Ask yourself the question, how many inches at 300yds is 4moa? 12. MOA x distance in 100yd increments = size in inches. Took you about three seconds, eh?

Ask yourself the other question, how many inches at 300yds is 4 hash marks? When you figure that out, let me know. If it took more time to figure out than MOA, you have your answer.

The mil-dot radian scopes come with an owners manual, which you will need, along with a calculator.

Most Americans do not think in metric.

Rich

Point being? Doesn't matter what method of long range shooting you employ. IT TAKES PRACTICE.

4 hash marks isn't a unit of measure. In a TMR 4 hash marks (2 big hash and 2 little) is 2mils if you are moving from center. If you are shooting a scope that adjusts in MOA that works out to about 7MOA. Works that way for wind or elevation as you have the same amount either way. So each big hash (or mil) is 3.5MOA and each little hash (or half mil) is half of that or 1.75MOA. Bracket your target between a half and full mil and you can hold about .25 mil or .85MOA. The reticle can break down to be incredibly helpful.

Take the drop chart or PDA you use and confirm it is good. Then dial and hold until it does work in your head.

The advantage it has over the VX3 (assuming they have equally repeatable adjustments) is the ability to hold for rapid engagements.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ask yourself the question, how many inches at 300yds is 4moa? 12. MOA x distance in 100yd increments = size in inches. Took you about three seconds, eh?

Ask yourself the other question, how many inches at 300yds is 4 hash marks? When you figure that out, let me know. If it took more time to figure out than MOA, you have your answer.

The mil-dot radian scopes come with an owners manual, which you will need, along with a calculator.

Most Americans do not think in metric.

Rich

I agree Rich. Except I defintely will keep the adjustment knobs in MOA.

And until I know the TMR better, then I will just keep a handy cheat sheet card there with me for settings at distance, wind etc.

quote:

Originally posted by 7mmfreak:
Point being? Doesn't matter what method of long range shooting you employ. IT TAKES PRACTICE.

4 hash marks isn't a unit of measure. In a TMR 4 hash marks (2 big hash and 2 little) is 2mils if you are moving from center. If you are shooting a scope that adjusts in MOA that works out to about 7MOA. Works that way for wind or elevation as you have the same amount either way. So each big hash (or mil) is 3.5MOA and each little hash (or half mil) is half of that or 1.75MOA. Bracket your target between a half and full mil and you can hold about .25 mil or .85MOA. The reticle can break down to be incredibly helpful.

Take the drop chart or PDA you use and confirm it is good. Then dial and hold until it does work in your head.

The advantage it has over the VX3 (assuming they have equally repeatable adjustments) is the ability to hold for rapid engagements.

Thank you 7mm. I agree on the practice and use of your own equipment.

After I get a load and run in through the computer and adjust for the actuals, and then shoot it a bit, I am still going to keep the the chart there with me for a while and for come-ups too.

I browsed around on some of the other sites about the MK4 but most of the complaints were that they did not think the glass was as good, etc although there was some grousing over the adjustments on the older ones. I had just received a new VX6 and I am really impressed with it so maybe Leupold is in another upswing.

Thank you for the MK4 info.

Whike I will probably use the Talley mounts as I have on most of my bolt rifles, does anybody want to offer an opinion on using the Near Manufacturing mount and the Near rings.

The only reason I would see to use the Near, besides it being heck for soild, is if I was going to take off the scope and mount up the nightscope for some coyote hunting. I dont think at my ranges I would need the MOA base.

If you are going to spend $1500 get a Nightforce. I have both and for targets, the Nightforce is the better one. Many different types of reticles.