Can the 22-250 accuratelly shoot 800 and 1000 yards
Thanks in advance

I can speak from experience on your question about 22-250 at long range. Some fifteen years ago built on 700 action, Krieger 30" SS 1-8 twist barrel for just that application. With the 80gr Sierras the performance, windage, elevation, etc. was very similar to shooting the 308 w/ 155 Sierra Palma bullets. Shot numerous Palma Matches, 8,9,and 1000yd and straight 1000yd. matches. I could drive the bullets to velocities in excess of 3200fps, but accuacy fell off and found that by dropping the load a bit, near 3100fps, accuracy was much improved, excellent. Some warned that barrel life would be short, but I did not find that to be the case. The Krieger barrel gave good sevice, .5moa accuracy, until just under 2800rnds. Then went to Douglas barrel for a bit of savings, and it shot just as well and gave the same performance. Not meant to be a bragging point, but primary reason for switching to 22-250 from old standby of 308 I finally attained the High Master Classification and then decided to just have fun with no pressure(only took me close to 40yrs to get there!!)
I don't shoot off a bench, but prone, sling, and the old fashion way, peep sights.
Well, much older now, bad knees, aches and pains, etc., and just completed last week a Ruger No. 1 w/ Douglas SS 26" barrel 7 twist in 22-250 and going to reluctantly revert to the relatively new method of F class shooting. I am in no way demeaning bench shooters for much of what we know today about shooting, reloading, ballistics,etc. stem from that group of shooters, but am old school.
All of my match rifles will weigh in at over 12 lbs. and another plus with the 22-250 is the almost absent recoil. Have Unertl 1.5x16 scope mounted and this combo is a bit lighter and with just the 30 break in rnds. to date, very comfortable to shoot and looks promising. Loads for the 22-250 and the 80gr bullets are not common, but I ended up using Varget or IMR 4064 with good results. Suggest you start at 29-30grs and you won't need to go much more to get your FPS. Need to keep that bullet super sonic at the 1000 yd mark. Should mention that 600yd matches, that is the offical start of Long Range Matches, are lots of fun for I could clean that target easier with the 22-250 than the 308. Just easier to shoot and cost per shot is less. If you go this route, use Lapua brass, 210M's and you are good to go.

The more i hear the more impressed I am by the .22-250.

MFD, is the typical 22-250 twist 1 in 8? I thought the factory rifles were designed for lighter bulets.
Peter.

Peter,
You are correct that the factory barrels are usually twisted in 14 for the lighter bullets. As I am sure you know for a long time the 223 was with twist of 12 or so for the lighter bullets, but even some factories now are offering that caliber in 8, but most use a 9 for broader use of bullet weights. The 223 with 7 or 8 twist and 75-80gr bullets do very well at the 600yd line and have for quite a while now. It is my feeling that the 22-250 factory rifles w/ a slow twist is destined to the varmint hunters and no thought to truly long range match shooting. I think of it as 223 on steroids and it definitely will get the job done. I may have gone too fast with the 7 twist this time and will have to be aware of over speeding/revolutions of the bullet and could vaporize the bullet itself?? I have always used the 8 twist in the past and no problems, but we will find out pretty soon. I have yet to try the newer 90gr bullets and it is said that you need a 6.5 twist. When Douglas does a barrel and you ask for a given twist, it is not exactly that for it can vary a half twist or even a whole number. Mine appears to be something less than 7 so the 90's may be the way to go.
First match I used the 22-250 in and upon getting ready to fire, my target went down and I told the line officer that there was a cross fire on my target for I did not shoot. Target came back up and it was a pinwheel X and I of course took it. Much to my amazement, counted my rounds and I had shot for there were 19 rnds laid out to my side. I had shot the 308 and 300WinMag so long and with the heavy shooting coat and so little recoil I didn't know it went off.(true story) Last match I shot with that particular 22-250 was at Whitehorse,WV 1000yd range I shot a 196 w/12X's which did not win the match, but Army was there and shooting 300 Win Mags and couple of them beat me. The 22-250 will not compete with the 300 Win Mag, but it is sure as hell a lot cheaper to shoot and will hold it's own with the 308.

MFD, Thats a great reply! It answered some questions I had also. Thanks for taking the time. Shayne

Ya thank you MDF that awnsered my question perfectly

196 and 12 is nothing to be glum about. Good shootin'. I wouldn't doubt it was only a couple.

Since the exact competition/application was not mentioned, I can only speak from my own experience.



While individual shooters/rifles can always be found that perform amazingly well, the 22-250 is not a cartridge favored by most competitors in long or short range sanctioned matches.

Also, while it is not absolutely true that only the rifles/cartridges/components that you see on the equipment lists following match results are the ones that will give you the best accuracy, it is the way to bet.

There are people who are going to point to the (IMHO) new record set by Mr.Schmidt with a nonstandard (for short group BR)cartridge as mentioned in a post above, anyone who has followed short BR for score would not be surprised, nor would they call it nonstandard. The 30BR has been winning matches for a long time. The .22-250 has been around even longer, but has not impressed many long or short range match competitors enough to campaign with it.

Maybe YOU will be the one to change that. There are some Aussies who claiming match accuracy from the venerable .30-30, so who knows? I'm not the most accurate shooter in the world, or much of a gunsmith, but the best group I ever shot was with a .223 rem. bench rifle that I built because people said the .223 rem was not competitive in that application. They were right; it takes a lot more than one group to make a competitive match rifle.

amamnn, MFD referred to shooting Palma matches. This is a well established discipline shooting prone at long ranges with open sights. It is highly competitive. It is NOT benchrest and it is NOT F class. The main competition as he mentioned is 223, 308 and 300WM. This is serious competition against well recognized target rifle calibers, so, if the 22.250 can hold it's own against these, then it deserves a good hard look. It may well be highly underrated, but then equipment and wind reading skill go a long way!
Peter.

As Peter mentioned, the competition is somewhat fierce, but that is likely to be the case in any serious shooting sport. Would mention that High Power shooting concists of two classes, (not counting F class which is Supported Fire, bag, bipod, etc., prone w/ optics)and they are either National Match/Across the Course(XC) or High Power- Long Range. XC is two, three, and 600yd targets and position shooting from standing, sitting, and prone. LR is all prone, sling, and either optics or iron sights. Palma is restricted to iron sights only and targets eight, nine, and 1000yd in distance.

Primary reason for me going to the 22-250 was that I had already worn out two or three new pick ups in travel time and didn't even want to know how much money I had spent for ammo, supplies, equipment, etc.(double rifles would have been less costly!!) and once I reached my goal, I was relieved and just decided to try the 22-250 to put some fun back into the game.
I really did not care what my scores were when I switched, pressure off, and in no way did I mean to imply that the 22-250 is the end all of long range calibers, but will say it does work and works well. I have some 90gr Sierras on the way and if you check the BC of that bullet, and have the right twist barrel(6.5 range) it should wear out that X ring.

I would be interested to see if you can drive the 90's fast enough to remain supersonic out to 1000.
Peter.

Me to! 90's should arrive this eve. and working on load data and will chronograph this weekend, weather permitting. This bullet in the 223 can be driven to 2600fps according to published load data, but even though I have not done the calcualtions yet, believe it will have to leave the muzzle at near 2800fps??? The PACT Pro chronograph will give me some good data once I put it to use. I'll use Varget to start and if that does not do it, will try some other powders. Varget works very well in the 22-250 and the 80's, so we will see. 600yds should be "duck soup"

quote:

Originally posted by Sam:
The more i hear the more impressed I am by the .22-250.

Serious barrel burner, but then so is any long-range caliber.

That's true. I'm not quite to where I figure barrel cost in to my shooting but think I'll need a new barrel in my AR. That'll be a different thread after the first match this spring.

I'd be interested in how the 90's do. In the .223 there wasn't much of a gain for 90's over 80's. I also see that the twist recommendation is 1 in 6.5. When the 90's came out Sierra said they we're good in 1 in 7. That could also be a limiting factor for most Service rifle shooters.

About a year ago I had the idea to neck down a .30-06 to .22 and see how fast an 80's and 90's could go. I had a lot of recommendations for the .22-250 and the .220 Swift saying the .22-06 idea used too much powder to get the same results.

I had been warned about the barrel life some 10 years or so when I and another shooter built our first long range 22-250's and in reality it did not turn out to be the case. In comparison to the 308 which would get me slightly over 3000 rnds on a barrel, my first Krieger 22-250 gave some 2800 rnds. Kept measurements on the throat and as it extended, plenty of bullet(80's) to keep seating further forward. Near the end would not hold the X ring at ranges past the 600. Second barrel was Douglas and it was about the same in life. Would mention that as much as I like Kriegers(all my 308's, save one, are Kriegers) the Douglas was every bit as accurate. Those barrels were 30" and used with micrometer sights and had plenty of stock to set back the barrel, but did not do that. Estimated extension of life with set back is said to be some 1200rnds or so?? Perhaps a reason for getting acceptable barrel life is I did not load to maxiumum and could get very near 3200fps, but accuracy fell off quite a bit. Magic velocity for me was just over 3000fps. This new rifle with only a 26" barrel may give me some velocity issues with the 90's?? I did speak with Sierra about the 6.5 twist and explained that my twist was best I can tell 6.8 turns and response was it should be good to go. I am running Varget, but in somewhat of an unknown area as to loads at this time, but hopefully my simple math calculations have given me a safe starting load. I scaled down the loads on percentage of charge(32grains) for the 80's vs wieght of bullet and come up with 28 grains of powder/Varget. This is not a suggested method of developing loads for any cartridge, but best I can come up with at this time. There is no published data. I will be at range this Sunday and if I survive will reveal the chrono data.

Completed the range work today with the 22-250 and chronographed the results for 75 Hornady's, 77 Sierras, 80 Sierras, and the 90 Sierras.
Mixed bag of brass for the first three, Rem., Win. and Federal, but 90's were all Lapua brass.
Loads for the first three were 32grs of Varget, 210M Fed. primers, basic brass prep work by chamfering mouth, clean primer pockets, checking run out on dial indicator.

75's yielded av. velocity of 3108fps. for 5 rnds.
77's yielded av. velocity of 3143fps. for 5 shots
80's yielded av. velocity of 3109fps. for 5 shots
90's yielded av. velocity of 2710fps. for 5 shots. Velocity spread/variance from shot to shot all in single digits and that always helps in the accuracy department if the shooter does his job.
I used a reduced load of Varget for the 90's of 28grains and the Lapua brass. There is really no noticeable recoil in this set up, but the 90's were definitely very much lighter than the others. The load can be increased to get the velocity up a bit. Hopefully I can get near 2900fps and have a safety margin and accuracy as well.

As for accuracy, the first three loads were known to be very accurate and groups of 6-8rnds just over 1" at 200yds. First shot with the 90's for accurcy were not on the target and was not sure where it went and estimated it had went low with those velocities and cranked it up 3 min. and second shot caught the target at 6 o'clock slightly below where I was aiming. Added 4 more clk's and spot on. Accuracy was equal to the first three loads. It would appear that a near 7 twist will work fine which is good news. Not using a std. SR target today, but a grid target for scope sight in purposes. There were 20+ mph wind gusts today and would wait until died down some, but it bucks the wind pretty good as well. I never had more than 2.5 minutes of wind on the entire day(not in the gusts of course, but still windy.) All shooting done from bench/bags and will do prone/sling next week and can count on groups opening up! Believe I will add couple or even three more grains of powder and see what the results are.

MFD;

Did you use a standard 22-250 chamber or did you go with a longer freebore and a shallower leade?

I don't have my chamber specs in front of me, but the 22-250 SAAMI chamber probably has a short (.025" throat/freebore and a steep (3 deg 10min or so)) leade angle, similar to other 22 cal varmint chambers.

We in the service rifle High power community have learned that heavy VLD bullets (75+) and standard throat/leade does not equal the performance and accuracy we need at 600 yards. A 556 nato-like chamber with a tighter throat works better (hence the Wylde, AMU, and other 223 MATCH chambers).

I'd bet you'd see better velocity (longer OAL) and greater accuracy if you go with a custom long throated/shallow leade chamber.

I have always thought of the 22-250 or 220 swift as a possible bolt gun with proper chambers and fast twists for 80-90 grain ammo. Since we can drive an 75-77 grain bullet to near 2900 in a 20 inch barreled 223, I'd think we could get over 3000 in a 22-250 and a 30+ inch palma type barrel for long range (palma is limited to 223 and 308, though, by rule.)

On the other hand, wildcats from these same cases hold sway these days, necked to 6 or 6.5 mm, with better BCs than any heavy 224 dia bullet...

The 6XC can push the 105-108 grain VLDs to well over 3000 from a long barrel- D Tubb used one to CLEAN the long range course at the nationals a few years ago. 1450 out of 1450- that is all tens or Xs 600 + yards, using micrometer sights and shot from prone, supported only with a SLING. Tubb 2000 rifle.

Andrew cempa,
Several years ago had a bolt gun, Rem 40X single shot w/ Krieger 1 in 8 twist and later on had a Douglas barrel of same twist, 30" and w/ the 80's could get something over 3200fps using 4064. However, by going that hot, accuracy dropped off and by backing down to just around 3000fps, accuracy was excellent at all distances including 1000yds.
This new rifle, Ruger NO. 1 w/ 26" Douglas in 7 twist and using 30grains of Varget, 90gr Sierras, am getting just at 2850fps. With a BC of .504 and at that velocity, still buzzing along at 1000 in excess of 1400fps. This combo is dead nuts on with the ballistics of the 308 Palma set up and using some 15 grains less powder and no recoil. I had the first load up to 32grains, but primers were showing some pressure signs so dropped it back. Mr. Tubbs and I have shared firing points at Perry together and no question he is indeed a top shot in all respects.
Don't have the numbers in front of me at this time, but I use a Sinclair system and calipers to determine how far off the lands and grooves and will double check those and post them w/ both the 80's and the 90's. I do know the throat is a bit on the long side for the fellow who does my barrels is prone to do that. With the No.1 I have relieved some pressure points on the forearm, channel, and use a shim under the hanger to have the barrel completed floated. With either the 80's or 90's(use same load, 30grs Varget) the gun will give just slightly over an 1" at 200 yards which is not bad. The NO.1 is not the best platform, but works better than I thought it would. Going to Perry this June to shoot the Bob Wright Memorial 1000yd matches and plan on using it there. Our local range has up to 400yds and it is still grouping at something under 3"'s for five shots. Truth of the matter it is hard to tell until you stretch it out to 600 or more and as soon as weather breaks have access to 1000yd range and will definitely check it there before any serious matches. Now have 147 rounds through the barrel and no copper, but I do a fairly rigorous break in period on a new barrel and carefull with the crown, clean breech to muzzle only. Don't know if all that is a good thing or bad thing, just force of habit and it seems to work for me.
All shots to date have been bagged/benched and yet to install handstop rail in forearm, but will soon have that done and shoot like your supposed to, mat, sling, prone. F class shooting is now permitted at these matches, but I will struggle through somehow w/ my prone/sling set up. Again, old habits hard to change.