First F Class Match

19 December 2016, 10:01

Big Wonderful Wyoming

I like F-Class a lot, the precision rifle matches are more interesting shooting, as there are more unknowns, but there are way more wannabe spec-war types there so I guess it is a wash.

With F-class and marked targets you don't chase the wind. As too much time has lapsed to base wind calls on previous shots. Precision rifle matches is more like varmint hunting or BR matches, you are usually chasing the wind with the reticle, as the time lapses between shots are much faster.

21 December 2016, 02:13

butchlambert

quote:
Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I like F-Class a lot, the precision rifle matches are more interesting shooting, as there are more unknowns, but there are way more wannabe spec-war types there so I guess it is a wash.

With F-class and marked targets you don't chase the wind. As too much time has lapsed to base wind calls on previous shots. Precision rifle matches is more like varmint hunting or BR matches, you are usually chasing the wind with the reticle, as the time lapses between shots are much faster.

I guess I don't understand not having to chase the wind in FClass.

21 December 2016, 09:56

Big Wonderful Wyoming

Butch,

Because F-class targets are marked, it takes time between shots. So you can't really correct for wind based on the last shot.

In PRS type matches and BR, you are firing a group of shots normally. So if you are off and can get a good wind call based on dirt splash you can adjust and fire another one based on "chasing the wind".

My first F-Class scope was a Christmas tree reticle and I thought that I could just use the Horus Reticle Todd Hoddnett system of adjusting for wind based on the last call. It never works, as the wind data normally changes over the 1-2 minutes between marked targets.

21 December 2016, 19:23

butchlambert

I certainly disagree, but that is OK.

22 December 2016, 09:59

Big Wonderful Wyoming

Butch,

Ok, how do you do it, I am always eager to learn?

22 December 2016, 17:18

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Butch,

Because F-class targets are marked, it takes time between shots. So you can't really correct for wind based on the last shot.

In PRS type matches and BR, you are firing a group of shots normally. So if you are off and can get a good wind call based on dirt splash you can adjust and fire another one based on "chasing the wind".

My first F-Class scope was a Christmas tree reticle and I thought that I could just use the Horus Reticle Todd Hoddnett system of adjusting for wind based on the last call. It never works, as the wind data normally changes over the 1-2 minutes between marked targets.

If you are shooting F-class your shots are much quicker than 1-2 minutes apart. Only 20 minutes are allowed for 20 shots for record so you have to be under a minute between shots. Most shooters finish way under. I shoot High Power (sling and irons) which is the same course of fire and usually complete a string in 8 to 9 minutes with decent pit service. Shoot, watch the target come down in the sight to ensure follow through, while target is down eject round, place round in rifle, leave bolt back, watch flags, target up, close bolt, look at flags/mirage, make adjustment if needed, fire. Under 30 seconds easily. If you are shooting 10s and Xs pit service should take less than 10 seconds. My spotting scope is set where I only move my head slightly to get back on the rifle. The rifle generally never leaves my shoulder. I also do not waste time marking each shot number, location, etc in a book while shooting. If it is a local match and I have to keep score I will generally only write down scores that are not 10s.

That being said a lot can happen in 25 seconds with the wind. I generally set my spotting scope focus at about the two hundred yard berm. I will pick two flags with the range, shooting point, and wind direction determining which flags. If the wind is left to right I will watch flags on the left, as that is what is about to happen, flags on the right are past tense. And I watch the mirage, a lot. If my hold was good, the shot was were I called it, a quick peek on the scope and flags, make an adjustment or not, and shoot.

It has been several years since I shot seriously, however this year I hope to make high master Mid-range and at 53 years old go back to service rifle and chase my distinguished badge.

22 December 2016, 19:03

butchlambert

quote:
Originally posted by MikeBurke:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Butch,

Because F-class targets are marked, it takes time between shots. So you can't really correct for wind based on the last shot.

In PRS type matches and BR, you are firing a group of shots normally. So if you are off and can get a good wind call based on dirt splash you can adjust and fire another one based on "chasing the wind".

My first F-Class scope was a Christmas tree reticle and I thought that I could just use the Horus Reticle Todd Hoddnett system of adjusting for wind based on the last call. It never works, as the wind data normally changes over the 1-2 minutes between marked targets.

If you are shooting F-class your shots are much quicker than 1-2 minutes apart. Only 20 minutes are allowed for 20 shots for record so you have to be under a minute between shots. Most shooters finish way under. I shoot High Power (sling and irons) which is the same course of fire and usually complete a string in 8 to 9 minutes with decent pit service. Shoot, watch the target come down in the sight to ensure follow through, while target is down eject round, place round in rifle, leave bolt back, watch flags, target up, close bolt, look at flags/mirage, make adjustment if needed, fire. Under 30 seconds easily. If you are shooting 10s and Xs pit service should take less than 10 seconds. My spotting scope is set where I only move my head slightly to get back on the rifle. The rifle generally never leaves my shoulder. I also do not waste time marking each shot number, location, etc in a book while shooting. If it is a local match and I have to keep score I will generally only write down scores that are not 10s.

That being said a lot can happen in 25 seconds with the wind. I generally set my spotting scope focus at about the two hundred yard berm. I will pick two flags with the range, shooting point, and wind direction determining which flags. If the wind is left to right I will watch flags on the left, as that is what is about to happen, flags on the right are past tense. And I watch the mirage, a lot. If my hold was good, the shot was were I called it, a quick peek on the scope and flags, make an adjustment or not, and shoot.

It has been several years since I shot seriously, however this year I hope to make high master Mid-range and at 53 years old go back to service rifle and chase my distinguished badge.

You are correct Mike.

23 December 2016, 11:32

Big Wonderful Wyoming

I know a lot of Queens Cup Match winners who will disagree with you. I was told to never base wind calls on the previous shot.

23 December 2016, 17:50

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
I certainly disagree, but that is OK.

I have to agree with you, Butch.

BWW, on what are they basing the next shot? Do they fire a shot, go back to their no wind zero, and start over each shot?

24 December 2016, 02:00

butchlambert

quote:
Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I know a lot of Queens Cup Match winners who will disagree with you. I was told to never base wind calls on the previous shot.

I have been told they use a different format in the UK. Here we shoot all of our shots as quick as the pit can pull the targets unless we have a condition change. I believe they have a 3 man rotation there. You have a shooter, spotter, and a shooter getting ready to shoot. Ist guy fires, next guy fires, and the last guy fires. Yes, the wind conditions could change in that amount of time. Qualify whether you are shooting in the USA or wherever.

24 December 2016, 05:40

HPMaster

I was taught decades ago by my Dad to stay on the scope as much as possible between shots, always looking for the prevailing condition and always asking "is it the same or has something changed".

US, CMP and NRA High Power, small bore ec

24 December 2016, 17:28

butchlambert

quote:
Originally posted by HPMaster:
I was taught decades ago by my Dad to stay on the scope as much as possible between shots, always looking for the prevailing condition and always asking "is it the same or has something changed".

US, CMP and NRA High Power, small bore ec

Yup!

27 December 2016, 09:53

Big Wonderful Wyoming

I have only shot F-Class in Australia. I shot the Canberra weekend matches and got to shoot part of the Queens match. I worked at the Embassy and every year I was there the Queens match fell on some big dignitary visit. So I never got to shoot the whole thing.

In Canberra in the National Rifle Club of Australia range, the rotation is like this. You will shoot, then you will score. The second heat you will be in the pits or vice versa.

You have as long as it takes the pit crew to mark your targets, which can be a long time.

Canberra also has an S-curve to the wind thanks to some naughty mountains on both sides of the range.

27 December 2016, 20:05

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by sputster:
Last weekend I shot in my first F Class Match, as an F-T/R shooter. I used my old Rem 700 VS with handloads of 168gr A-Max bullets over Varget, shooting at 500yd. While it was a good shooting experience, it was just as valuable learning from the old hands there. A guy on my lane shot a 6mm Dasher in open class, and besides being an outstanding shooter he was a good coach as well.

Congratulations to you for shooting your first match. hopefully you will continue to enjoy the matches.

27 December 2016, 23:54

butchlambert

quote:
Originally posted by sputster:
Last weekend I shot in my first F Class Match, as an F-T/R shooter. I used my old Rem 700 VS with handloads of 168gr A-Max bullets over Varget, shooting at 500yd. While it was a good shooting experience, it was just as valuable learning from the old hands there. A guy on my lane shot a 6mm Dasher in open class, and besides being an outstanding shooter he was a good coach as well.

You will have a lot of fun and meet some great guys.

02 January 2017, 17:26

Dick Wright

I have shot short range (100 & 200 yds.) for years, as has Butch. We always use wind flags. Over the years I have got so I depend on them to show condition changes and literally feel helpless without them.

I've never been to an F-class match but am guessing that wind indicators aren't used much. That would be a problem for me. There are good matches down in Midland, MI and, next summer, I need to get my butt down there and watch. The range is only 45 min. away so that won't be a problem.

I've purposely stayed away from F-class... all I need is one more expensive shooting sport. Probably a big mistake...

06 February 2017, 05:25

Bill Leeper

Wind indicators are used but only such as is available at the range. In other words, the competitors don't decorate the range with their own flags as at the short range BR matches. In most cases, especially at the long ranges, the flags are showing conditions nowhere near the bullet flight path so there is a lot of extrapolation. I often get as much information from leaves on the trees as I do from the flags.
Even when shooting in rotation with one or two others on the mound, one uses the results of his previous shots to (hopefully) establish the effect the wind is likely to have on his next. When shooting two or three to a mound, one is certainly unlikely to be able to run in a given condition. Instead, each shot may be a fresh start. Regards, Bill

20 March 2017, 05:07

sputster

I appreciate the commentary and advice, especially on the wind calls. At this particular range (Mill Creek RC in KS), the wind is often a tail wind, though when the weather turns cold, the wind comes in from the north at about 10 o'clock. When shooting on my own at short range (300 and under) I had only paid attention to major wind trends throughout the day and not shot to shot. The first F Class match of this year (midrange) is next Saturday, so I will be at it again! Thanks again everybody.