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What can I do to be a better offhand shot?
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Picture of Wayfaring Stranger
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Ive been working on my offhand shooting and am not improving much. The best I can seem to do is around 8/10 shots on the paper and 3-4/10 in a 6" circle at 200 yds. I can't help to think I can do better than this but after a few months I'm not seeing much improvements. What else can I do?

1) I do dry fire drills at home a few times a week
2) I go to the range and shoot 40-60 rounds of .223 at 200-300 yds at least 2x month
3) I routinely shoot off a bench to evaluate loads


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If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt!
 
Posts: 320 | Location: Montgomery, Texas | Registered: 29 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Try shooting 22 LR metal silhouettes. You can buy swinger targets, set them at 50 yards or so and have at it. Off hand shooting is technique (watch high power shooters shooting matches at the range), breath control and practice. Are you tucking your left elbow into your hip? etc. etc. There is probably a website that shows off technique. Lots can be said about this. I will let the highpower shooters interject.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I'm an experienced High Power shooter but Peter is right that rimfire is great practice. It's all about getting trigger time. I'm going to ask a few questions with comments first. What are you shooting? I'm assuming the ammo is a hand load of reasonable accuracy, and is compatabile with the rifle. What target are you shooting? The 9 ring (Black) on a 200 yard target is just over 6 inchs across, the 7 ring is 12 inches. Are you wearing a shooting jacket and glove? Are you on a Natural Point of Aim or forcing the rifle on target. I sent a post on a different web site about stance. I'll locate it and cut and paste it next.


A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I shoot High Power so I'm not sure how to use a sling for off hand. Try this out, if it works great. I wish I had pictures but I'll do my best with a description. Start with your left shoulder aiming in the vicinity of your target, put your feet about shoulder width apart (comfortably spread good balance). Plant you left elbow on your side, really your upper arm is solid to your side. Bend your arm at the elbow and flip your hand back so you are pointing to your left shoulder with you finger tips and your palm is up. You should be looking through a "U" made with your fingers near your shoulder and your thumb pointing away from you. Pretty much it's just like holding your rifle normal but turning your hand counter cock wise under the rifle. Put the rifle in your palm near it's center of balance. Your left arm is still tight to your side the rifle is really close to your chest and the left arm is holding the weight of the rifle like a rest. Now bring your right hand up to the stock and wrap your hand around the grip placing your index finger on the trigger guard. Bring the rifle into the pocket of your shoulder and adjust the butt of the rifle up or down to align the sights or scope to your eye. We'll get on target in a second or two. Once you have the sights aligned to your eye bring your right arm down to your body bending at the wrist and shoulder. The idea is to get your elbows down to your body so your muscles aren't getting tired supporting your arms. Now let's get on target. Look through your scope/sights and see where you are pointed. If you are to the left of the target move your rear foot back (like you are trying to step backwards not widen your stance) this will rotate your body toward the target. If you are to the right of the target step your rear foot forward to rotate your body back to the target. Adjust your front foot/leg for comfort so your foot isn't twisted. Now to adjust elevation if you are under the target move your rear foot out to spread your legs slightly. To come down bring your rear foot in towards your front foot. Ten gauge is right about timing your muzzle movement to when you break your trigger. Usually you will find you have a wobble or move in a figure 8. Watch how you move on the target. Don't fight it relax and watch how far you move. Typically I move in an arc from one side of the 9 ring to the the other. If I see a lot of white at one end or the other I'm not on the target right.

Like I said try it out feel free to ask questions. Try this out dry firing until it's comfortable. The key points are comfort, balance, and skeleton support not muscle support.

PS jrdude posted some good thoughts on braething that I din't think of. You can watch how breathing changes your sights when you are in position. I ussually take a deep breath and exhale just a little. You can play with that to adjust your sight picture too.


A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Wayfaring, excellent advice from Sam. Now some questions and comments:
1. You know that standing is the least accurate of all the positions, so, why are you doing it? Even hunters will use a bipod or shooting sticks. If it is because it is the most difficult, then, GOOD FOR YOU! Do it right!
2. Metal silhouette is shot without a sling, so decide what you want to do. Sling is definitely more accurate.
3. I have seen many people at the range shooting off hand at 100 yard targets and rarely getting in the black. If you follow the advice above eg. don't try to muscle the rifle etc. you will be way ahead of the game.
4. After correct stance is trigger time!
5. MOA is fine for standing. You just have to remove the loads from the confidence equation.
6. As asked above what rifle and caliber are you shooting. A decent trigger is a BIG help.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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1) I'm primarily shooting a stock A-Bolt in .223 that shoots 1.5 moa off the bench but also shoot hunting rifles of equal accuracy. Triggers are stock ~5lbs. My .223 rifle is same make/model/bbl lenght as my hunting rifles for consistency.

2) I practice about 1/3 standing/sitting/prone (w/bipod)

3) I use a 1" nylon sling

4) I find standing as easey (or as hard) as sitting

5) even with a bipod I'll send a few off the paper at 300 yds (its no excuse but the range I shoot at is notoriously windy)

6) I cannot get the crosshairs to rest on the target (6" orange circle) I try to drop down on it but usually just kinda wait till it lines up and try to squeeze smoothly. I had the same problem with 5 spot archery but was still able to shoot 290's. Seems harder with rifles at 200 yds)

7) I shoot with a variable 2-8 power scope. I find that 3-4 works best at 200 yds, 6-8 for bipod shooting at 300.

8) Thanks all - I'll definately work through those instructions tonight!


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If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt!
 
Posts: 320 | Location: Montgomery, Texas | Registered: 29 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Grow younger, stronger and have better eyesight-- Wink Big Grin

Good advice above, breathing, heart rate, muscle tone sling and---- trigger control as you you move through the "target"---Because you will move.

Get an old daisy BB gun a cardboard box and soda cans .
Set targets up (put dots on the box for later)
Slowly move through the target(can) calling you shot as you go.
After you can call you shots move to the dots on the box, as you can hit them make smaller dots.

Work on vertical, horizontal and diagonal shots.

When you get good at this, wear out a .22 on a "target rich environment" then back to your big guns.

This is a modification of a shot gun/ pistol training technique taught to me almost 50 years ago by a WWII fighter pilot.

It works, helped me as a kid, also I later used it teaching pistol shooting (started with BB pistols and moved up)


DuggaBoye-O
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Posts: 4593 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Wayfaring you should be able to shoot sub 6" groups at 300 yards off a bipod, unless it is very windy and inconsistent. Can you choose the wind conditions ie. wait for a lull etc.? Are you shooting off a bench or from grass/dirt? I have heard that shooting off a concrete bench (or other hard surface) using a bipod is not conducive to good accuracy. Try shooting off a regular front and rear rest. Just FWIW.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Sounds like you have a great rig set up. One of the things to watch is how your cross hairs float around the target. As you figure out your wobble you can get a feel of when to break the shot. Try to break it just before the target is centered. If you try to snatch the trigger when your aligned you'll pull the rifle of a little and the trigger actually breaks after you pass the target. Brian Zins has a good write up on trigger control for pistol shooting that is just as true for rifles.


A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Dugga - never thought to dust off the ol Red Ryder - wonder how *if* it shoots. I'll give it a whack.

Peter - I tend to shoot better with bipod off a bench, mostly cause I can beter support the butt. With bipod prone I'm shootin 9"+ groups with the occasional shot missing the paper.

Sam thanks for all your advice - I've never though about my stance so much and I'll put it to practice this weekend.
-Mark


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If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt!
 
Posts: 320 | Location: Montgomery, Texas | Registered: 29 October 2007Reply With Quote
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The more you shoot the better you will shoot. JUST SHOOT!!
 
Posts: 67 | Location: Possum Hollow, IN | Registered: 09 February 2009Reply With Quote
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If you shoot wrong you re-enforce bad habits. Learn to shoot well then shoot more.

How'd the range trip go?


A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Norfolk, Va | Registered: 27 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I agree with the 22 drill . I hunt in nebraska most of time no tree to take a rest, prone can't see target, etc. I got worried about the big one crossing the horizon untouched, ( all shots on moving animals. I fixed up a remington 541-t with 3-9 scope and outfit closely duplicates my hunting rig.Start at 50 on a 4" swinging gong to build your confidence move back to 100. Really helped me, confidence is a big factor.


No matter where you go or what you do there you are! Yes tis true and tis pity but pity tis, tis true.
 
Posts: 571 | Registered: 09 November 2008Reply With Quote
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