I ran a couple of loads with a Sierra 155gr Palma Match bullet over Hodgdon Benchmark powder, shot at 100 and 200 yards. The Sierra book recommends a 2.775" overall length, and I do understand to seat the bullet out to be closer to the lands (as many disagree as to how much). How much? In the past I have seated bullets out to the lands, but the Palma Match bullet seems kind of short, to where you would lose grip on the bullet if you moved it out very much.

Ok, duh, it's a .308" 155gr Palma Match bullet loaded in a .308 Win cartridge, through a Rem 700VS with a factory tube. My bad. (yes, some will bash me for not having a custom barrel in it yet; when I shoot this one out soon it'll get one)

As long as you are dealing with a factory barrel and chamber, you have to reach a compromise between chasing the lands and, seating the bullet deep enough to obtain a good "Purchase". If and when you rebarrel, you should check out the various 308 Palma reamers that are available.

The concern about seating this bullet in a .308 for the company loading listed is simply what their load was. Your rifle and your chamber will determine it's likes and dislikes. The standard length for the .308 is 2.80" and many, myself included will stretch that to approach the lands. What you do when moving the bullet around is change the powder density for initial volume and therefore the primers ability to ignite the charge uniformly. Secondly, the bullet's "jump" will be reduced if not eliminated by seating longer... sometimes good and may increase pressure. All and all, tinker till that bullet shoots less than 1/2 MOA for your .308. Also try Varget, by working up to between 44 and 45.5 grains.

Thank you for the advice. I have worked with seating bullets farther out before in .308 and .30-06, but I was wondering about the 155gr Palma bullet because it seems so short.

As one of the folks who helped develop the first loads for Sierra's Palma bullet back in early 1991 for use by the US Palma Team, here's what we learned.

First off, bullets need to be centered in the throat for best accuracy. Shorter bullets need a shorter throat.

Second, Palma Teams around the world use chambers whose leade is shorter than standard factory or military chambers. This is done by making special chamber reamers.

Third, in the summber of 1991, Sierra's Palma bullet was first used in competition. Folks using barrels chambered for .308's with 168-gr. match bullets didn't do so well with the Palma ammo loaded for them. Those with short-throat Palma chambers made for the then International Palma standard 150-gr. 7.62 NATO bullet did very well indeed.

It boils down to the following. If your leade or throat is too long for Palma bullets, seat them out as far as you can for safe handling, the shoot the darned things. Otherwise, rebarrel and have a "Palma" chamber put in it.

If I recall correctly, there were bigger problems with the donated rifles, at Raton 1992, than with the bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
If I recall correctly, there were bigger problems with the donated rifles, at Raton 1992, than with the bullets.

Oh boy, how right you are.

I was there (didn't make the team 'cause of some crossfires during the tryouts, but loaned my rifle to someone who did 'cause his broke) and got to handle some of those Ruger Rejects.....

First off, Ruger's crew in the group given the job to make 'em did not know what a Palma rifle was. Nor did any of them know what actions, stocks and barrels were favored by top long range shooters around the world. And they didn't try to contact anyone in the USA to learn something about the game. So they made a few calls to some local folks who sort of clued them in, but not to those who really knew what was needed.

Next, Ruger contacted Green Mountain, a barrel making company in New England catering to black powder shooters and well known by Ruger 10/22 users for replacement barrels. They made two types for the 1:13 twist 30 caliber barrels used in the project; 4 groove and 6 groove. Then Ruger had some in-house trigger "guru" modify their triggers to be somewhat better than the factory ones, but most of them were not repeatable and hard to use. Their receiver folks made 20 some receivers with the front guard screw vertical into a flat section instead of angled lug then put a blind magazine follower in the magazine port for single loading. And their stock making folks made a poorly designed stock for prone competition; way too low of comb for use with high-mounted aperture sights, lousy grip for decent trigger control, and no way to adjust for length of pull to fit different shooter sizes.

Before the 1992 World Palma Matches started, the US Team tested these rifles with ammo loaded with the new Sierra 155-gr. Palma bullet. In proper Palma rifles, this ammo shot into about 3 inches at 600 and about 8 inches at 1000 yards (with new Winchester cases, metered powder and assembled on a pair of Dillon 1050 progressives). The Rugers 6-groove barrels shot groups at 600 yards around 1 foot and at 1000 yards into 2 to 3 feet. The 4-groove barrels shot somewhat better, but the team members preferred their own rifles that were much, much more accurate, had better triggers and stock fit. One US team member's rifle's barrel went bad so he used the best Ruger of the bunch and it didn't do very good at all compared to the other rifles on the line.

All the country team members from around the world chatted about those Rugers. Too bad they were a disaster for Ruger who kept pretty quiet about them. Those Ruger Palma rifles may still be in storage at the NRA site at Raton, NM.

Late in 1991, Remington offered to make 20 Palma rifles for the US team based on their 40X receiver but the team's management refused the offer based on the long-term and well-known problems with those actions. Had Winchester offered to build rifles on their M70 action, the team probably would have accepted.

Try seating a bullet all the way out without a crimp and chamber it and the bullet should set back and be seated on the rifling. If it doesn't set back at all than you're not near the rifling.

If yours has the standard Rem throat (leade starts out by the front sling swivel somewhere), you may not be able to get close to the rifling without the bullet falling out of the case!

FWIW, I've loaded mine to 2.80" from Day One in my Palma 95 chambered rifle and haven't looked back. I moly mine and in some rifles that makes seating depth more forgiving, but I'll bet the standard 2.8" will work in your Remmy. The Sierra's a pretty forgiving design in its own right.

Mark

Bart - I wasn't there but boy-howdy do I remember the poop storm the Rugers caused!