I am curious as to what your fellas thoughts are on this.

Over on 24 hour there is a bit of debate going on about this.

Thx

Mark D

i tryed moly in my savage mod 12 22-250 saw know improvement in accuracy . i don't think you gain much ,waste a money.

No moly for me.

the whole moly thing has been going on for years. I've never seen anything that would show me it's useful

My initial impression was "sounds like a lot of empty promises, with voodoo claims to back them up".

Years later, my thoughts haven't changed....

One of my favorite ads showed a fired "naked" bullet beside a fired moly bullet. Supposedly same rifle, same bullet (type), same load, etc.

The moly bullet showed shallower engraving from the rifling.

I can't see any way to do that other than an undersized bullet or oversized bore. There's no way I'll believe that moly was responsible for that one...

Use of Molly is one of those misunderstood things. Much marketing (hype) went into selling molly to shooters. Most of the claims are almost impossible to prove. So we shooters have to take on faith the benifits of mollyed bullets. This is something shooters are reluctant ot do.
I do use molly for my high volume rifles. Highpower competition, and P dogs to name a couple. The molly does allow me to clean less often. Three to five hundred rounds with out notable loss of accuracy. I also feel that the time spent cleaning these rifles is somewhat less than without the molly.
If I am using a rifle less than about 100 rounds (or more) in a day, then I will not molly bullets for that rifle.
However the claim of increased accuracy or longer barell life is I think still hype.

Just my opinion/experence.

muck

Cold Bore
I looked at that same picture/ad many times trying to figure out just what they were trying to "show". I finally asked some one else to educate me. Turns out that the depth of groves engraved into the bullet was not the "idea"(in fact this was an optical illusion caused by the darker mollyed bullet). Rather you were supposed to notice that the naked bullet had small fins at the base of the bullet caused by the smearing of the jacket metal by the lands. And and the holy mollyed bullet did not have the same fins. This was the "magic" of the molly bullet accuracy. I find it hard to swallow now as well as then.

muck

Re mollied bullets: no reputable writer or user of moly has or would claim an increase in accuracy. Its use probably started in the NRA Highpower bunch (that's where I learned about it), where the high volume muck mentioned is certainly happening.
Less fouling, maybe longer barrel life....those are the two claims to fame of moly'ed bullets.
Where the voodoo really starts, in my opinion, is when the naysayers start knocking it for various wild reasons.
I certainly don't advocate it for any "low volume" shooting applications...but some really great shooters have hung with it (David Tubb for one) when many rounds are going down the tube...
Norma did a fairly thorough study on moly use..can't remember the link.

Moly will let you bump up the powder charge to get maybe 5-10% more velocity with the same pressure. And less fouling during a match. I use moly without the wax coating, so it IS messy. But I think the wax burns into a corrosive residue, whereas the moly just coats the bore. Just my .02.

I've used moly in the past and it does help in cleaning,but I doubt I'll ever use it again.I don't shoot anywhere near the volume I did back then.

I use moly in my 222, 7X64 and 300 H&H and it works well for me. Cleaning after a session at the range involves scrubbing the bore with 2 patches of Butches Bore shine where they come out blacker than the devil's waistcoat and the third patch is magically clear. I do my own molying, I don't use the wax.

For some reason it does not work the same in my 22-250. I am getting a new barrel for that so I will try moly in it soon.

OK, what about mixing Moly and non-moly? Not during an event but what if I shoot a bunch of Moly bullets and switch to Copper? any process to clean, any problems found? Many thanks in advance

Moly or No Moly ?. 3800 FPS + Yes if nothing else makes it easier to clean fouling . Below that NO !. I've experimented with most of the Fast Calibers .17 - 06 Accelerators . .17 .204 6 MM and a couple of others seem to prefer Moly others didn't seem to make any difference . Benched at 100 Yd. Moly made nice 3 - 4 shot groups . NEVER had a 5 Shot group that touched with Moly !. I've how ever had several 5 shots groups touch with out it !. Experiment , trial and Error is ones best approach !.

There is actually a reason why we walk up right
some of us how ever still prefer to skin our knees and knuckles .

DrK, what kind of rifle are you shooting?

I played with some Berger moly coated bullets in a 223 Ackley rifle and compared them to the same identical load with the identical Berger bullet without the moly coating. This was many years ago but from what I remember there was no difference in accuracy, very little increase in velocity, but the clean up process was much easier. Not worth the dirty black fingers for no accuracy gain and only marginal velocity increase. Just my two cents.

Eddie : Make , model or caliber's ?. In which caliber ?. Mauser's and commercial Mauser , Savage , Sako , CZ , Springfield Armory ,Browning , Beretta ,Winchester , Remington , Cooper ,BushMaster , Then a whole bunch of Military relics Which still shoot dam well . Speaking of which , wouldn't it be interesting if a weapon could recite it's story !. I look at the wounds , scratches and the nicks on some of those stocks , it makes me think about who and how as well as where they came from .

I do know where a couple of M16's as well as AK 47's & 74's and SK's got theirs " Personally !!."

Less we never forget those who Sacrificed before as well as for us !...

DrK, I know what you mean about nicks and bruises. I'd like to have all of the AKs and SKSs I've seen piled up with a Thermite grenade sitting on top.
Back to the original post you made. I just wondered what kind of rifles, that you were shooting, that you never got 5 shots touching at 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
No moly for me.

2nd that. Too much work if you do it yourself for very little, if any, gain.

Eddie ; With Moly I've had poor results with almost every caliber in regards to 5 single hole.Maybe I'm doing something wrong !??.
In a .17 I get 3 - 4 that do it almost every time !. The 5 th. is always a flier . Same with CZ 223 or Rem 222 no cleaning between shots or a dry patch between shots makes NO difference !. Bushmaster , Savage , Mauser Commercial and my Springfield will with out moly !.

All shots fired timed out at 1 Min. or 1.5 Min. between . Same lot of Ammo loaded , with 38 years of knowledge . Varying bullet weights and powders primers Etc.

At first I thought Reloading was a hobby ?, it has turned into my second career or as my wife likes to refer to it " My other Life " !...

DrK, in my experience with Moly, I had to increase the powder charge slightly when using Moly, in order to get the same velocity as I was getting with the naked bullets. This may explain why your rifles didn't shoot well with Moly. Moly seems to have fallen out of favoer in the BR world but I still see a few using a product called Danzac which is Tungsten disulphide. Soft grey coloring and used primarily to ease the cleaning regimen.

I've tried moly bullets before, I probably don't shoot well enough to know the difference anyways. The one negative thing I read about moly in Rifleshooter mag was that it absorbs moisture like dessicant and if you're not religious about cleaning can cause grief.

I don't think it's much of an issue with people who shoot regularily and clean regularily, but the average hunter who shoots a dozen rounds a year and puts the gun away after the hunt is in for a mess.

you do need to know that moly in a barrel is like aids...once you get it, you got it for life...or the life of your barrel. About 15 years ago John Gammuto (then asst editor of Precision Shooting Magazine) got on the moly bandwagon and got a lot of benchrest shooters to try it...they are still cursing the very mention of his name.

Rich
DRSS

Rich, moly isn't the only reason people are cursing his name. You know the story.

I just bought the Neco kit with the Viking V6 tumbler.I used factory coated and my lyman moly kit beforehand.My lyman vibratory tumbler broke down and I decided to go with a rotary tumbler. I feel that I clean less and have better accuracy over the long term.I think most will agree that you can go longer without cleaning before accuracy drops off with molly.If I cared only for the tightest group right there and then then I would only use a light almost non existant coat or coatless bullet fired in a bore that is somewhat mollied.

eddieharen,

yeah, but that is the only part I can tell here...women and kids y'know! He like to of got me killed by Dave Brennan over the Shooters News debacle. I and a few others from PS wrote an article for him and Dave threatened to ban us all. He did with a few of the old guys, like 17MachIV out of Vegas. Do you know what ever became of John? Me, I'm still just a Rockchuck Shooter from Idaho...with a Cape Buffalo dream

Rich
DRSS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by muck:
I do use molly for my high volume rifles. Highpower competition, and P dogs to name a couple. The molly does allow me to clean less often. Three to five hundred rounds with out notable loss of accuracy. I also feel that the time spent cleaning these rifles is somewhat less than without the molly.
/QUOTE]

And thats all moly is supposed to do-extend your cleaning interval. Any other claims are

My rifles are moly above 2600 fps and not moly below 2600 fps.

222, 223, 22-250, 6mmPPC, 6mmBR, 243, 257RAI, 270, 7mm Mauser, 7mmRM, 300Sav, 308, 7.5 Swiss, 30-06, 300WM, 7.62x54R, 8x57mm, 338WM, and 338L are moly.

17HMR, 6.5x55, 303 Sav, 30-30, 7.62x39mm, 303 Brit, 35 Whelen, 44mag, 45 Colt, 45/70, 12 ga slug are all non moly.

My hand guns are all non moly; 25acp, 32acp, 32 S&W, 38 S&W long, 7.62x25mm, 30 Mauser, 380, 9x19mm, 9x23mm, 38 S&W, 38 sp, 357 mag, 44 mag, 45acp, 45 auto rim, and 45 colt.

quote:

Posted 28 January 2007 14:39 Hide Post
DrK, in my experience with Moly, I had to increase the powder charge slightly when using Moly, in order to get the same velocity as I was getting with the naked bullets. This may explain why your rifles didn't shoot well with Moly. Moly seems to have fallen out of favor in the BR world but I still see a few using a product called Danzac which is Tungsten disulphide. Soft grey coloring and used primarily to ease the cleaning regimen.

Yes Eddie ; Sorry it took so long to get back .
Why would it be necessary ( although I have done so ) to increase the powder charge using moly ??. If one greases the wheel doesn't the cart go faster with the same effort ?.The idea behind moly is to form as near as possible a friction free barrier from projectile and barrel
. Isn't it ?. This reduces fouling as well as increased velocity right ?. My own personal experience has been less than stellar using it . For what ever reasons . I suspect although very hard to prove or disprove , it may be to slick on the rifling and the projectile does not " track " as accurately as with out it ?. Fire lapping a bore is smoothing any micro polishing imperfections out . So isn't it kind of taking care of the fouling problem to start with ?.

I'm Never going to be a shooter of Tubbs caliber any way . I'm missing several of his obvious attributes . One of which is time to practice !!!!.

I would be curious if anyone knows, How many top shooters use Moly as opposed to those who don't ?. ...

Dr. K, I just assumed that because the moly made the bullet slicker, it required less pressure to push the bullet from the barrel, resulting in lower velocity.

Eddie ; Why would it require less pressure ?.Because it's slicker ( less friction ) ?. Ok . Then why increase the charge ?. If the charge in the case is a constant and the projectile is of the same weight it gives an almost fixed velocity . Correct ( there are minor variables wind Temp humidity Etc. ) . Point is the projectile is captured inside of the bore !.
A charge goes off expanding gases push the projectile down the bore ( hopefully ) following the rifling of a predetermined twist rate . Gases don't know the projectile is coated or uncoated they expand at their given rate . The projectile moves through the bore with less friction so wouldn't it increase in velocity ?.

The burn rate of a given Powder is what effects the whole scenario slow or fast for Peak pressure for barrel length or optimal burn . At least that's my take on it . I'm sure some one will correct me though , if I'm wrong .
I always figured it was for easier cleaning as well as for obtaining higher velocity projectiles !. Point is I never had accuracy luck with it and it's a Chore to remove it from a Bore once it's in there !!.

DrK, all i know is that I had to go up 2 full clicks, on a Culver measure, of H322 to achieve the same velocity that I was getting using naked bullets. Slicker, less pressure, curvature of the earth, climatic conditions I don't know. I only know that I had to up the powder charge to achive the same velocity.
Shoot some naked bullets, over your chronograph, from an unmolyed bore. Then shoot some molyed bullets through the same barrel. Check this out for us and let us know what you find. Good Shootin'.

I don't dispute what your saying Eddie . I'm simply stating a law of physics . If it's slicker ( I E ) less friction then it should go at least as fast or faster than if uncoated !.

Interesting articles by Major Barrel manufactures now deem it a wasted effort !. Now shooters are being sucked into HBN !. Hexagonal Boron Nitride !. Yep you heard me correctly . In powder 120 - 140 Nano dimensions !. Hell lets put baby laxative on them !. If a barrel has been properly conditioned I see NO Advantage in any lubrication on a projectile . I see it as the old Wifes tale , what's his name does it so it must be good right ?. No what's his name makes money from promoting it !. My take on it any way ...

I'm not expert but doesn't that moly have to add some diameter to your bullet, causing the same or maybe a little more drag... even though it's slicker.....

Buying 1,200 Nosler .224 Nosler 40gr BT's with moly.......is there a way to remove? r in s.

Make yourself a small note: once you fire moly bullets thru a rifle barrel, it is easier to get a Dimocrat to publicly support the 2nd Amendment that to get the moly coating out of the barrel.

Rich
Buff Killer

In 17 Rem, 223, 22-250 and 308, I moly. In 30-06 and 45ACP, I don't.

For target and varmint shooters, it helps. If I want to shoot naked bullets later, I clean thoroughly then shoot as normal. I've never seen a difference as long as you clean between switches.

Just my two cents - worth every penny

Mark