Thinking of building a hunter class on a lighter recoiling gun (I used to shoot a 7-08). I will also use this gun in the field for pronghorn and coyotes with the thought I can load down the varmint bullets a little so save fur. Read an article in Precision Shooting about 6BR for silhouette. I spoke to the author and he said it was only 90% on the rams under good conditions, and with a head wind it was less. I know the popularity of the 260 Remington, but wonder if anyone has played with the .257 Roberts.... I know Berger makes a 115gr match bullet that is 10% heavier than the 6mm bullets the author was using. The .257 obviously has more power as well so I think that it might be 95% on the rams. If I leave one out of 20 rams standing, maybe the shootability of the Roberts is a fair compromise....

Thoughts?

Deke.

Deke, never heard of it before but I guess you could do it. Max bullet weight is only about 120 grains though. My main concern would be whether I could build one accurate enough for the game.
Peter.

I understand that Randy Robinett, of BIB bullets, is making some real good 257 bullets.

First instinct would be to ask why one would compete in a discipline knowing that they have an inferior cartridge? Whatever the cartridge.
If one is recoil sensitive then one must determine what is comfortable to shoot. ,257 Roberts AI or a 25-06 both using 120's or larger should do the ticket as long as body shots are made on steel. I would prefer a 6.5X284 with 142's or larger personally.

338

Would suggest you go with the tried and true 308. Not considered a hard kicker by most, but if it is to you, add extra soft/resiliant butt pad, mercury recoil reducer, etc. Should be able to do all of these things and still keep the weight down. 308 works for most things.

Peter,
What is your concern with accuracy in the .257 Roberts?


Hammertyme,
A little about the hunter class rules; Has to be a factory chambering so AI's not allowed accordingly. Keep in mind this is prone, 80 round matches (not to mention warm up) and any advantage (less recoil) that helps you hit targets is a consideration. Though body shots seem logical, a dead center hit on the Rams is actually less likely to tip them than a hit towards the top or side edges.

Deke.

I just don't think that the 257R is as inherently accurate as, say, a 308. PLus, as I mentioned, the max bullet weight is 120 grs.
Since when is hunter class silhouette shot prone? I thought silhouette was shot standing? That is what I alsways did. But then, I was shooting my Rem 308 HB.
Peter.

Traditional silhoutte matches are not shot in prone, but as pointed out, off hand. Certainly could do prone if wanted I suppose, but not known to be the "proper" method?? As for the 257 Roberts, have shot a lot of true prone long range matches for many years and can not recall ever seeing a 257 Roberts being used. Sure there has been some over the years, but certainly not considered a long range match performance cartridge. Knocking down the metal targets obviously needs some mass at the target face and probably the best all around cartridge for that would be either the 7mm/08, 260, or the 308. Recoil of any of these not a concern in prone or any other position. As others have mentioned, bullet selection far better for the three mentioned cartridges than the 257 caliber.
Good luck.

All, was pretty tired from jet lag and chose a wrong word. I have always shot high power silhouette offhand, and never seen it shot prone. Sorry for the confusion.

I was leary of the bullet selection for the .257, but there are some other than Sierra that make VLD bullets, but I'm not sure if they are much over 120gr like Peter points out. Folks have found the 6mmBR about 90% on the rams with less velocity and weight, so if I could count on the 257 to be close to 95%, and count on making up a few % on the Turkeys because the gun was extra sweet to shoot, then why not?

As far as accuracy, I know some 257's that folks would put up against a 6 or 7 any day of the week.

Deke.

Deke, you seem pretty well convinced that the 257 is the way to go and therefore that is exactly what I would do. Let us all know how it works out and good luck.

Deke, I agree with dsiteman. Please go ahead and build your 257R. I for one would be very interested in the details of what components you used, and seeing the shooting results. If they are reporting 90% knockdowns with (presumably) 107 grain bullets, then I am sure that the 115s or 120s will work fine. The 257R is one of my favorite calibers! However, my Ruger Ultralight does not shoot as well as I would like. It does handle well though!
Peter.

Didn't David Tubb win a National Championship shooting a .243 out of a stock Rem700 sporter?

I remember him saying that he rung a Ram or two when the setting was not optimal, but it must not have been too bad.

I know Tubbs of recent is big on the 6's for long range, but did not know about the .243Win on silhouettes..... Hmmmmm, had ruled out the 6's on silhouette since they seemed too light and the .243Win is a bit hard on barrels.

To be truthful, I am not set on the 257R and I have been bouncing back unmercifully between it and the 260Rem. I am not in a big hurry, but seeing how I will pick at this project I will want to choose a platform before too long.

The Rem700 actions are a natural and I believe the stock has to be factory (can be modified as long at the modifications are not highly visible, bedding okay, etc.). For hunter class I can afford a post64 Win70, and a featherweight would be pretty cool.... 257's on the 70 or 260 on the 700.... I want to stay American made. Thoughts?

Deke.

Dave Tubb (no "s") is shooting a 6mm long range for some similar considerations as he did in Silhouette (minimizing recoil). But his 6XC for highpower is a smaller cartridge than the .243 and he gets away with smaller because knock-down energy is not a consideration in Highpower Rifle. As mentioned earlier and as you've been concerned, I recall him saying that the .243 left a ram or two standing, but for him it ended up being a good trade off.

Yes, barrel life on the .243 and 6XC are notoriously short...but there's a guy in highpower that has worked out a .243 variant called the 6mmCM that's giving him 3-4K of accurate life. He made an excellent showing at the Nationals this year with a barrel that had over 3k rounds on it. His name is Joe Hendricks and if interested I can provide contact information.

Deke: Build it and they will come!! Hey, that could be a famous saying one day!
I am sure you are aware that equipment is only a part of the equation. Buy something that you can practice extensively with, and still have fun.
Peter.

Chris, thanks for the "s" clarification. Tubb is truly remarkable. I have read one of his books and am amazed at all that he considers in his position alone. For hunter class the cartridge has to have been chambered before at the factory. There is a little ambiguity here since Remington does off beat stuff in their custom shop, but I don't want to leave it to the officials and will want to go with an authentic factory chambering to be safe.

Still struggling a bit with the .257 bullet selections. Have not seen anything heavier than 115 in a Match bullet so it is giving up alot of BC to the 6 and 6.5's. The .243 is a sweet gun and flat, but at the cost of barrel life. The .260 offers more reliability on the rams at the cost of more recoil. That is why I thought the .257 would be a great in between, but the bullet availability.....

May ponder this one for a while....

Deke.

You may want to look at this site.
The guys on it have been down that road .
http://www.steelchickens.com/phpBB2/index.php

Deke, in the early days of metal silhouette shooting, I believe that the 243 was the caliber of choice. How long is it going to take you to shoot 2-3K rounds? Probably quite a few years! In my experience, the 243 was more accurate than the 257, and, you can pick them up quite reasonably. I have a Rem 788 that I can sell you.
Peter.

Leadlobber, Good site, seems like tubb's ".243 left a ram or two standing, but for him it ended up being a good trade off...." is pretty much the consensus.

Peter, You are right that the average shooter will take a while to shoot 2-3K. I am not sure how much I will shoot it, but if one got serious enough, it would only take a year or two before a weekend shooter like me goes through a .243 barrel. As for your 788, I am looking for a more durable rifle that can be shot a lot, rebarreled, and handed down, so will opt for a 700 or 70. Thanks for the offer though.

I have a feeling that this will start out as a 700 in .243 or .260, or a 70 in .243, whichever is best obtained.

Deke.

One correction. The rules used to require that a hunter class rifle be of a factory chambering but that requirement was dropped.

As a long time silhouette shooter, I can recommend the .260. I shot the 308, then 7-08, then the .260. Have shot over 10,000 rounds of .260 so far. You can shoot Sierra 107s and Lapua 108s at the C-P-T and have the same recoil as a .243. For rams, you can shoot the 140s and they are excellent at taking down rams. One example, last year we had high winds that were blowing the rams over, so we C-clamped the rams to the rail and were going to just call hits. I had rams first, I hit 7 rams with my .260 and Sierra 142s. I knocked them all over even though they were clamped!

For actions, look at the 700. Fast lock time and you can improve it with readily available triggers, firing pins, whatever you want. You might want to look at the Stiller Viper action. It's $750 and no need to pay to true and accurize it. The Viper fits the 700 short action footprint and takes Remington triggers. I have two 700s and one Viper and they are great.

Good luck, silhouette is so much fun, you are going to love it.

Sorry. I meant to say Stiller Predator. My Stiller Viper is my varmint gun.

ross syfried has had rifles built using the 6 mm remington, same case as the 257 roberts. there are some good 6 mm bulets available.

40inarow,

I like your name! Last I heard that kid from San Diego had 39, are you going to be the first 40? I agree about how fun it is. I have only shot about a dozen matches spread out over 3 yrs, so I have been pretty casual using it mostly as a good tune up going into hunting season.

These hunter class rules seem to change very often. Do you think they will go back to the factory chambering requirement (want to make sure before I do any rebarrels....)? Any other rule changes that might be on the horizon?

Deke.

I've never shot a 40 in competition. Shot a couple on my home airgun range but no witnesses! The nearest I've been to a 40 was to watch Cathy Winstead shoot a 40 at the Texas State match awhile back. It was a beautiful thing. I attribute my handle to positive thinking.

Rule changes on the NRA competitions comittee cause alot of contentious waves. I don't forsee alot of rule changes in the future that you would need to worry about.

Best of luck to you, let us know what you end up with.

Are you saying someone has finally shot a 40 in high power? As of a few years ago it had NEVER been done officially....

I am looking for the last published rules for hunter class high power. Do you have them (I checked on the web and could not find them) as it pertains to equipment? Mostly concerned with barrel length, and how close to factory equipment you have to adhere.

Deke.

No, Cathy Winstead's 40 was shot in rimfire. The story on Tubb was he was sponsored by Remington to use a 700, but was bound by the rules of the time to use a factory caliber, so he chose a 243. He hit 40 but rung a couple of rams. As a sidebar, his two books are awesome, and he explains better than I ever could, why the 260 is so good.

To get the latest set of rules, call the NRA Competitions Division. Greg Conner is the Silhouette Director, ask for him.

The hunter rules require a bit of deeper understanding than what might be read in black and white. The hunter rules basically say it has to "look" like a hunter. There are some dimension and weight specs but you would best be served by using or at least consulting with a gunsmith who is experience in building silhouette rifles. Two good guys that I have used are Bobby Pitchford and Evelio McDonald.

It might seem frustrating trying to figure these rules out, but really this is the best situation ever. You can build a hunter gun with an excellent offhand stock that gives up very little, if any, to a Standard gun. Brown Precision and Mark Pharr both have primo hunter silhouette stocks.

The NRA rules committe probably won't fiddle with the rules too much because it has been a process over time. Just to illustrate, this rule we have been discussing, the factory rule, used to state that a hunter gun had to be a factory gun, in a factory offered caliber, but it could be rebarreled if it matched a factory contour.
This rule was challenged - first "What is a factory rifle?" They came up with a definition that 1000 guns be made by the factory. Well if you call up Remington or whomever, they will not share their production figures, just like most manufacturers of anything, because that is valuable marketing info that can be used by their competitors. So you can't verify the 1000 figure. Next you had the president of Nesika Bay, who built awesome silhouette rifles, saying that the committee was screwing the small manufacturers in this and also were stifling the technology development of the sport. He was right. Lastly the left handers were saying they were being screwed. They were right. The rule was changed. So that is the process.

This sounds more complicated than it is. Get the rulebook. Then either use or consult with Pitchford or McDonald and you'll be fine.

Deke,
For some reason I have it in my mind that you havea a Savage. If so, you might find this interesting;
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2570791&goto=nextoldest

Chris, I saw this post of yours. Do I have this right, this is a Ruger barrel chambered, and presumably threaded for a Savage 110? For some reason, that strikes me as weird!
Peter.

Rem 700 SA. Will choose between a 243Win or 260Rem. I might even go for a 6DPX (or whatever will feed reliably in 6 with a min mv of the 243Win) if I happen across a barrel without having to order one (don't have the budget for anything, but a takeoff or one that someone doesn't want). Time is no my side, so I will keep lookin.

Deke.